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Day at National Western

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S CO rancher

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Spent the yesterday at NWSS, beautiful day, temps around 40 until 3pm, then it started getting cold in the yards. No crowds, the parking lots were mostly empty, had plenty of time to talk to cattle exhibitors and commercial exhibitors. :eek: Everyone is getting ready for the hard weather expected later in the week.

Lot of functional cattle there, a little different than the ones I saw three years ago, the last time I went. There is a large area of lowlines, probably 30 exhibitors, lot of interest from the small acreage group that there are prevalent around Denver. I really don't consider them functional in the real world, they are more of a hobby in my opinion. :?

Friend Gordon Booth of Cherry Creek Angus of Veteran WYO, has some really good heifers consigned to the Angus Foundation Classic this Friday. If I was in the market for some, I would sure look at those. We looked at and talked all breeds of cattle until my 16 year old son finally called "uncle", went up and sat with friends watching the Gelbvieh show and left me to my gabbing down in the yards. At least in the yards they want to talk to you, very few people in the barns wanted to talk, even if they weren't showing. Still amazed at how fat the show cattle are, and they somehow get them bred.

They may be short of help in the booth next week, so they might call me to come up and help. Not much going on right now, except feeding, so if this coming storm passes us by, I may be back up there for a couple more days. It is different experiencing the show from a commercial exhibitor standpoint, especially when you are usually there as a rancher and for the educational experience and to see the trends in the showring so you know which way not to go. It is fun and eye opening to talk to so many people from around the country and world in such a short period of time. Sure makes you look outside your own fencelines at the bigger picture.
 

Red Robin

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Several breeds are or have implemented back fat measurements as well as REA and marbling. It cuts down on those bred heifers carrying and inch of fat.
 

mn

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My son-inlaw is fitting for Magness Limousin,hasn't called how are they doing?
 

S CO rancher

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We walked through the Magness cattle, they looked good. Everyone was busy washing, clipping, blowing, shoveling, rearranging, etc. They sure had a lot of cattle and people on both sides of that alleyway. When everyone is that busy, I don't even try to talk to them.
 

seth

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S Co rancher, I found some of your comments very interesting. You found the show cattle quite fat. I have noticed the same thing and I sometimes think it is a real shame that good cattle must be fed to become so fat that it impairs their usefulness as breeding cattle. I also noticed that you found the people showing cattle on the hill much less willing to talk. Do you have a theory as to why that is?
 

Red Robin

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Red Robin said:
Several breeds are or have implemented back fat measurements as well as REA and marbling. It cuts down on those bred heifers carrying and inch of fat.
Just got off the phone to my ultrasound man. Angus didn't scan anything on the hill, surely they did in the yards. I don't think the reds did either , not sure yet. I personally think you are afraid of exposing flaws in your cattle when you aren't willing to publish ultrasound data to the public in an event like the National Western. If these two breeds are such good cattle, scan them and show the world. BTW he said that the South Devons were improving every year and their carcass data was among the best. If breed leadership isn't interested in the latest technology, they need to be replaced!
 

Mike

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Red Robin said:
Red Robin said:
Several breeds are or have implemented back fat measurements as well as REA and marbling. It cuts down on those bred heifers carrying and inch of fat.
Just got off the phone to my ultrasound man. Angus didn't scan anything on the hill, surely they did in the yards. I don't think the reds did either , not sure yet. I personally think you are afraid of exposing flaws in your cattle when you aren't willing to publish ultrasound data to the public in an event like the National Western. If these two breeds are such good cattle, scan them and show the world. BTW he said that the South Devons were improving every year and their carcass data was among the best. If breed leadership isn't interested in the latest technology, they need to be replaced!

Too many still think that visual apparaisal is all we need for carcass merit, and other traits.

To my knowledge, I don't know of one ultrasound scanner who will tell you that REA, IMF, and BF can be guessed with any reasonable accuracy.

Many of the same folks doubt EPDs too. :lol:
 

Jason

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Ultrasound on show animals isn't really of much value, except it shows how fat the animals really are.

Ultrasound to have any value in shaping genetic change, has to be done on proper contemporary groups at the right age.

The breeders that show control the rules of most shows. One year thay allowed backfat at Edmonton Farmfair. One promenent shower was livid that his show heifer had posted a measurement of 19 mm (I think it was more embarassment). Anyway sure that the measure must be flawed, he asked a well know cattleman how much fat he thought his heifer was carrying. The man said about 3/4 inch, the breeder stormed off madder than before. ( 19 mm is .76 inches). Ultrasound hasn't been allowed there since.

The same breeders that dislike ultrasound at shows don't want unknown judges there either. One said that outside judges don't know who is who. When asked why that matters, he replied: "The right people won't win".
 

Red Robin

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Mike said:
Red Robin said:
Red Robin said:
Several breeds are or have implemented back fat measurements as well as REA and marbling. It cuts down on those bred heifers carrying and inch of fat.
Just got off the phone to my ultrasound man. Angus didn't scan anything on the hill, surely they did in the yards. I don't think the reds did either , not sure yet. I personally think you are afraid of exposing flaws in your cattle when you aren't willing to publish ultrasound data to the public in an event like the National Western. If these two breeds are such good cattle, scan them and show the world. BTW he said that the South Devons were improving every year and their carcass data was among the best. If breed leadership isn't interested in the latest technology, they need to be replaced!

Too many still think that visual apparaisal is all we need for carcass merit, and other traits.

To my knowledge, I don't know of one ultrasound scanner who will tell you that REA, IMF, and BF can be guessed with any reasonable accuracy.

Many of the same folks doubt EPDs too. :lol:
You've never heard me preach against actuall data. I'm all for data. I'm just against snake oil. :wink:
 

Red Robin

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Jason said:
Ultrasound on show animals isn't really of much value, except it shows how fat the animals really are.

Ultrasound to have any value in shaping genetic change, has to be done on proper contemporary groups at the right age.
Why would you say that Jason? I know of a RA calf that was a year old in Denver last year that had something like a 16" REA, 5.75%imf and had about .3 bf. I can tell you that's a nice bull from a commercial standpoint regardless of the contemporary group. He weighed around 1200.
 

Red Robin

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Badlands said:
Anybody can find 1 out of the 400 or so there.

You can't find many more, though.


Badlands
I guess I don't see your point. Only one in (400 or so) is an outlier for bw, ww, yw, sc,conformation , etc. You can also find several sorry ones carrying 1" or 1.25" of bf that are nothing more than a decent phenotype and cooked corn.
 

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