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Democrats Undermine Troop Morale

Mike

Well-known member
Marine Corps Cpl. David Goldich, a University of Virginia graduate who spent two tours of duty in Iraq, says Democratic attacks on the war undermined troop morale.


Cpl. Goldich, who returned from Anbar province in November after about 300 combat patrols, stated in a candid account that negative comments by Democrats had "a dramatic effect on morale, especially on troops who are otherwise indifferent and disdainful of politics in general."


"I cannot tell you how many times I have overheard Marines and soldiers talking about various inconsiderate comments made from the likes of [Sen.] John Kerry [Massachusetts Democrat], [Rep. John P.] Murtha [Pennsylvania Democrat], [Senate Majority Leader Harry] Reid [Nevada Democrat], and [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi [California Democrat] about how we cannot win, how we should be brought home, etc.," he said.


"The Kerry comments really cemented his reputation with the troops and upset people more than anything else. It is unnerving to volunteer for service during wartime hoping to be deployed and having to listen to a politician explain how the troops need to come home, especially when we clearly have not finished what we started.


"There is a widespread perception amongst the Marines I know, even those uninterested in politics, that the Democratic Party does not want us to win in Iraq for whatever reason. This is true even amongst Democrats who still maintain the party viewpoint on almost every other issue but the war. Morale is always a tricky issue to deal with, and it is difficult to tell a Marine to buck up when he sees important people back home undercutting his primary reason for existing at the moment."

...

These blows to troop morale make the accomplishments of these troops all the more remarkable. They have overcome not only a wicked enemy, but a party of anti war pukes who wanted them to lose for their own political gain. It has been one of the worst performances by Democrats since the Copperhead days of the Civil War Democrats. It si why Democrats should not be trusted with national security.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

No one had to tell the American people they were being attacked, we got to watch our fellow Americans jumping to their death from the World Trade Center buildings for ourselves.

And if we are not exposed to greater danger then why do you yell to secure the borders with every other post? If there is truly no threat out there then lets open the borders up!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

No one had to tell the American people they were being attacked, we got to watch our fellow Americans jumping to their death from the World Trade Center buildings for ourselves.

And if we are not exposed to greater danger then why do you yell to secure the borders with every other post? If there is truly no threat out there then lets open the borders up!

I don't remember any of those that attacked our country coming from Iraq- the center of Bush's war...If we used that excuse for attacking countries- GW should have attacked Saudi Arabia, too......

We were justified in going into Afghanistan, where our attackers were at (which we may lose if we keep expending all our resources in Iraq) - only Bush/Cheney oilmen justified the Bush war in Iraq......
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:

No one had to tell the American people they were being attacked, we got to watch our fellow Americans jumping to their death from the World Trade Center buildings for ourselves.

And if we are not exposed to greater danger then why do you yell to secure the borders with every other post? If there is truly no threat out there then lets open the borders up!

I don't remember any of those that attacked our country coming from Iraq- the center of Bush's war...If we used that excuse for attacking countries- GW should have attacked Saudi Arabia, too......

We were justified in going into Afghanistan, where our attackers were at (which we may lose if we keep expending all our resources in Iraq) - only Bush/Cheney oilmen justified the Bush war in Iraq......

Radical Muslims that hate Americans and had declared us their enemy attacked us. Iraq is a Radical Muslim nation with a leader who vowed to destroy America.

Sounds like we attacked the correct people to me! We would have been justified going into a few different countries. Saddam was just stupid enough to give us the open door buy disobeying the U.N. Sanctions.
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
No one had to tell the American people they were being attacked, we got to watch our fellow Americans jumping to their death from the World Trade Center buildings for ourselves.

And if we are not exposed to greater danger then why do you yell to secure the borders with every other post? If there is truly no threat out there then lets open the borders up!

I don't remember any of those that attacked our country coming from Iraq- the center of Bush's war...If we used that excuse for attacking countries- GW should have attacked Saudi Arabia, too......

We were justified in going into Afghanistan, where our attackers were at (which we may lose if we keep expending all our resources in Iraq) - only Bush/Cheney oilmen justified the Bush war in Iraq......

Radical Muslims that hate Americans and had declared us their enemy attacked us. Iraq is a Radical Muslim nation with a leader who vowed to destroy America.

Sounds like we attacked the correct people to me! We would have been justified going into a few different countries. Saddam was just stupid enough to give us the open door buy disobeying the U.N. Sanctions.


:agree:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
No one had to tell the American people they were being attacked, we got to watch our fellow Americans jumping to their death from the World Trade Center buildings for ourselves.

And if we are not exposed to greater danger then why do you yell to secure the borders with every other post? If there is truly no threat out there then lets open the borders up!

I don't remember any of those that attacked our country coming from Iraq- the center of Bush's war...If we used that excuse for attacking countries- GW should have attacked Saudi Arabia, too......

We were justified in going into Afghanistan, where our attackers were at (which we may lose if we keep expending all our resources in Iraq) - only Bush/Cheney oilmen justified the Bush war in Iraq......

Radical Muslims that hate Americans and had declared us their enemy attacked us. Iraq is a Radical Muslim nation with a leader who vowed to destroy America.

Sounds like we attacked the correct people to me! We would have been justified going into a few different countries. Saddam was just stupid enough to give us the open door buy disobeying the U.N. Sanctions.

Radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts have been caught, killed, or identified that came from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco, Somalia, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Bahrain, Comoros, Muaritania, Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Phillipines, the Baltics, Poland, Cechian states, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, the UK, the US, etc. etc.

Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan are all on the list of terror sponsoring countries....

How many of these countries should we attack and take over :???: Which one should be next :???: Where and when do we stop :???:

Looks to me like its a lot more important to secure our borders first- to protect our own at home- then to go out on a globalist plan to peacify the world by taking it over.....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts have been caught, killed, or identified that came from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco, Somalia, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Bahrain, Comoros, Muaritania, Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Phillipines, the Baltics, Poland, Cechian states, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, the UK, the US, etc. etc.

Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan are all on the list of terror sponsoring countries....

How many of these countries should we attack and take over :???: Which one should be next :???: Where and when do we stop :???:

We look at which of those countries you list have a Government that or leader that parallels the thinking of the terrorist or offers direct support to them. Example France may have had past terrorist reside within its country but the Government or its leaders do not sponsor terrorist activity against America. By contrast Iran does as a country and through its leadership support and sponsor terrorist.

It is not that hard to figure what countries and what leaders we need to take serious.

We can not attack all of them, some we need to watch and use other methods. But some are super threats and they may need military action against them. But thanks to Bush going into Iraq, war with many of these other countries may be avoided, due to our presence there currently.

Iran, Syria and others will give a little more thought on how the proceed. Iran could not defeat the Iraq military in a war that lasted 8 years. American soldiers did it in a matter of a few days. You can not tell me that Iran is not worried about us being next door!

Bush was a smart leader. Much like a car owner that changes his oil every 3,000 miles to prevent breakage and cost. In comparison to someone like Clinton that saved money up front but cost break downs and money in future.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts have been caught, killed, or identified that came from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco, Somalia, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Bahrain, Comoros, Muaritania, Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Phillipines, the Baltics, Poland, Cechian states, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, the UK, the US, etc. etc.

Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan are all on the list of terror sponsoring countries....

How many of these countries should we attack and take over ..
All of them if they are a state or country that supports terrorism. ALL OF THEM. Clear enough?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts have been caught, killed, or identified that came from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco, Somalia, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Bahrain, Comoros, Muaritania, Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Phillipines, the Baltics, Poland, Cechian states, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, the UK, the US, etc. etc.

Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan are all on the list of terror sponsoring countries....

How many of these countries should we attack and take over ..
All of them if they are a state or country that supports terrorism. ALL OF THEM. Clear enough?

Thats scarey!!-With those beliefs we would have blown up the world years ago in a war with the USSR and China....Luckily folks like Kennedy-Reagan could see past that...

Its folks that think your way that are going to assure the White House and both Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Dems in 09!!!
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts have been caught, killed, or identified that came from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco, Somalia, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Bahrain, Comoros, Muaritania, Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Phillipines, the Baltics, Poland, Cechian states, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, the UK, the US, etc. etc.

Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan are all on the list of terror sponsoring countries....

How many of these countries should we attack and take over ..
All of them if they are a state or country that supports terrorism. ALL OF THEM. Clear enough?

Thats scarey!!-With those beliefs we would have blown up the world years ago in a war with the USSR and China....Luckily folks like Kennedy-Reagan could see past that...

Its folks that think your way that are going to assure the White House and both Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Dems in 09!!!
:lol: Who cares. It's people like you that don't have nerve enough to stand up to terrorism and more specifically islamic terrorism and call it what it it.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Radical Muslims involved in terrorist acts have been caught, killed, or identified that came from Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yemen, Algeria, Morocco, Somalia, Oman, Qatar, Lebanon, Bahrain, Comoros, Muaritania, Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Phillipines, the Baltics, Poland, Cechian states, Slovenia, Bosnia, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, the UK, the US, etc. etc.

Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, Sudan are all on the list of terror sponsoring countries....

How many of these countries should we attack and take over ..
All of them if they are a state or country that supports terrorism. ALL OF THEM. Clear enough?

Thats scarey!!-With those beliefs we would have blown up the world years ago in a war with the USSR and China....Luckily folks like Kennedy-Reagan could see past that...

Its folks that think your way that are going to assure the White House and both Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Dems in 09!!!

USSR and China never attacked us. The key here is we are talking about Radical Muslims, not world powers in general. If Muslim Radicals are threatening us then we have to go after those Muslim nations with Radical leaders that support that war.

We do not have to attack all of them, mostly because we did attack Iraq. Now we have credibility and a military strong hold in a explosive region. In reality the Iraq war may have helped to prevent a more widespread war.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Oldwhiner maybe when you go to bed tonight you can pull the covers up over your head and pray to ron paul that he doesn't let the evil canadian cows in or the chili bean people take your social security check but completely ignore the pink elephant in the house. Islam is against the world. The arch bishop of cantebury (I think) said that sharia law is coming to eroupe. You better get your wife and daughters a burka. We might not be far behind.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
All of them if they are a state or country that supports terrorism. ALL OF THEM. Clear enough?

Thats scarey!!-With those beliefs we would have blown up the world years ago in a war with the USSR and China....Luckily folks like Kennedy-Reagan could see past that...

Its folks that think your way that are going to assure the White House and both Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Dems in 09!!!
:lol: Who cares. It's people like you that don't have nerve enough to stand up to terrorism and more specifically islamic terrorism and call it what it it.

Well RR- I was involved in the war on terrorism long before you even heard of it.....

I've said 100 times- I believe in the war on terrorism--I just don't believe in Bush's Oil War- and 100 year planned occupation of a foreign country....Our taxpayer dollars and resources could be much better used in going after terrorist leadership and cells- than in trying to Democratize a country thats never known Democracy and whose people have lived 1000 years under tribal leadership.....If we hadn't had all our troops tied up in Iraq- we may have had the manpower in Afghanistan to get Osama when we had him cornered in Tora Bora.....
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Unless you have more information to source, I'll take the word of these fellas.

Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”.

'WE WERE MISTREATED AND CHEATED'

Extracts from letters

Abu-Tariq, al-Qaeda leader

“There were almost 600 fighters in our sector before the tribes changed course 360 degrees . . . Many of our fighters quit and some of them joined the deserters . . . As a result of that the number of fighters dropped down to 20 or less.”

“We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers who used to be part of the Jihadi movement, therefore we must not have mercy on those traitors until they come back to the right side or get eliminated completely.”

Unnamed emir, Anbar province

“The Islamic State of Iraq [al-Qaeda] is faced with an extraordinary crisis, especially in al-Anbar province. Al-Qaeda’s expulsion from Anbar created weakness and psychological defeat. This also created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight.

“The morale of the fighters went down and they wanted to be transferred to administrative positions rather than be fighters. There was a total collapse in the security structure of the organisation.”

We're winning oldwhiner and I support the troops, the mission and the Presidents decision to go there to fight them.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Red Robin-- How do we know If or When we win in Iraq :???: All the experts and Generals that have served there say a Democracy cannot exist...Do we then make it a military state (colony)- and occupy it forever.... :???:
Thats what started some of the radical Muslim revolts in Algeria and Libya way back in the 60's- and they expelled the French and British...

If Iraq bankrupts the country- and allows the Taliban to regain power in Afghanistan and Pakistan- will it be worth it..... :???: We had Saddam under our thumbnail- and he couldn't take a pee without us knowing it...Even Colin Powell and much of the cabinet felt the war was unnecessary- and that we were not properly prepared to handle it, but were overruled by Bush/Cheny/Rummy...Which in hindsight has proven that Powell and crew was right- we weren't prepared....They had no plans/preparation to handle it after the battle was done.....

My fear is that a long occupation of Iraq is creating more radical terrorists than it is stopping- and for every one killed there, 2 more join the movement somewhere else in the world....And will continue to be a rallying cry for them as long as we are there.....Even more so than the US bases in Saudi Arabia were after the first Gulf War....

The thing is that most don't realize is that the War with the modern radical Muslim terrorists has been going on since the 1950's-1960's- and with Al Quaeda since in the 80's and especially after they attempted to hijack and crash several international planes into the south Pacific as early as about 1991-that was thwarted- but in all the years, they were only able to do 2 attacks on US soil in 1993- and again in 2001...We had as many by our own home raised nuts....

We had attacks against us and other countries around the world- but only two on our soil....And until 9/11 most folks hadn't even heard of Al Quaeda or Osama Bin Laden...I had because I had many briefings on him starting around 1993....I was sitting in a briefing on him put on by the CIA/FBI when they came in and said the Murrah Building had been bombed in Oklahoma City....

I don't think the radical Muslim movement can be defeated militarily-- because its not a country-its not a race- its a belief-- and while you have people of the world living in squaller and with no jobs or anything else to do all day long-while the princes of the world reap all the gold- it is ripe to evolve and multiply....And until all the nations of the world work together to change those conditions in their own countries it will continue to spread- like it is now in the poor nations of Africa...

I don't think we could ever have enough troops to conquer all the areas that the radical beliefs are being promoted in...But I do think our troops and our resources could make our home defenses much better if they were utilized that way...Even if border and immigrant security stopped only 50% of the drugs entering the US- that would hit the terrorists hard in their pocket books, since that is one of their primary financing sources...
But traipsing around the world freeing Kingdoms fighting the Muslims will give us the same results as the Kings and Crusaders had 1000 years ago- broke and defeated...
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Thats scarey!!-With those beliefs we would have blown up the world years ago in a war with the USSR and China....Luckily folks like Kennedy-Reagan could see past that...

Its folks that think your way that are going to assure the White House and both Houses of Congress will be controlled by the Dems in 09!!!
:lol: Who cares. It's people like you that don't have nerve enough to stand up to terrorism and more specifically islamic terrorism and call it what it it.

Well RR- I was involved in the war on terrorism long before you even heard of it.....

I've said 100 times- I believe in the war on terrorism--I just don't believe in Bush's Oil War- and 100 year planned occupation of a foreign country....Our taxpayer dollars and resources could be much better used in going after terrorist leadership and cells- than in trying to Democratize a country thats never known Democracy and whose people have lived 1000 years under tribal leadership.....If we hadn't had all our troops tied up in Iraq- we may have had the manpower in Afghanistan to get Osama when we had him cornered in Tora Bora.....

What a nice list of vacation places. FYI, we still have troops in the Pee Eye.

Now I'm not for 100% certain, but I believe that the Tora Bora deal came before the Iraq invasion. After 9/11, it was primarily the Delta Boys and the 504th PIR of the 82D Airborne who was in Afghanistan. All our troops weren't tied up in Iraq when Tora Bora occurred. Get your facts straight before you foam at the mouth.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Cattlecandykid---I know quite well when Tora Bora was-- but for how much time did GW have all the military resources tied up planning/building for his war- instead of in Afghanistan where needed...Where are the troops now that the US commanders are asking for and currently saying are needed to keep the Taliban from retaking Afghanistan :???:

Maybe if those resources and our complete interest had been focused where they should have been- instead of running around the world looking for more Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld oil company resources to exploit for their elitist buddies.....Or now trying to Democratize a country thats never known Democracy...
I think that Justice Watch obtained files that were posted on here earlier show that the oil resources have been the primary goal in Iraq since day one...Even Greenspan admitted that the war in Iraq is all about oil....
 

Mike

Well-known member
Well RR- I was involved in the war on terrorism long before you even heard of it.....

I doubt it. It started in 1969 with airline hijackings.

I take that back. It started way before that:

"The immediate cause of the First Crusade was Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. In 1071, at the Battle of Manzikert, the Byzantine Empire was defeated, which led to the loss of all of Asia Minor (modern Turkey) save the coastlands."
 
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