DENNY?

[Big Muddy rancher]

Denny I mistakingly credited this statement to rancher but you made it . Would you please adress it.



DENNY you posted that you were tired of Canadian ranchers riding the shirt tails of US ranchers. Could you expand on this?


Could you mean that US ranchers built Packing plants for US ranchers?


Could it mean that JD and New Holland haying eqip. is built by US ranchers for Us ranchers?


Have US ranchers built feedlots for the exclusive use of US ranchers?


Maybe these were built by Iinvestors that could see that they were dealing in a global market and needed more the the US economy to grow and prosper.


Who built Creekstone? They wanted to access Canadian cattle to test. Were you in favor of Creekstone or not?

Are you in favor of the US exporting beef to other countries?

 

[Denny]

Before YOUR BSE infestation where did the vast majority of live cattle go either to be fed or processed?

Do you think that had a positive effect on the cow/calf operator in the USA
?

Would you not want to protect your markets if the shoe was on the other foot.

Who's Native born cow cost us our export market.It doesnt matter what happened to the product after the fact if we would never have imported that cow to begin with this would'nt be a problem.

You know that the flood of cattle is coming down here as soon as the border is open why?

Because of your greed you dont care what us importing your cattle will do to the ranchers bottom line so why should I care what happens to yours.

Dont give me the bull about the trucking if that border opens the trucks will be there.If you cant find them the packers and feedlots here will.

My calves go from northern Mn to Iowa every year the trucks come from Iowa its only 200 miles from my place to the border.

If you pay the truckers they will come.

All of the packing plants were built by large corporations they dont care what happens to you or me just who does it cheapest.

I dont believe your cattle to be of any better quality than mine I can compete with any low cost producer.But if keeping your cattle out keeps mine worth .5 cents more well thats $30.00 a calf but heres where the money is made butcher cows were worth around 30 cents prior now thier 60 cents thats $300 per 1000# now thats what were talking about the sooner under 30 month cattle are allowed the sooner over will begin coming in.

You have no market value in your country so you chose to ship them here depressing ours but what the hell its still better than what you would have got at home.

 

[mwj]

In what part of this country did you find Canadians with guns forcing people to buy there cattle :roll: Canadian cattle will only come over the border if and when there is a demand, and as far as I can tell the demand has been south of the border. If you can convince the buyers in this country, the first head will never cross even if the border is wide open! Check and see how much beef we have forced into Europe without the demand being there.

 

[Kato]

"Because of your greed you dont care what us importing your cattle will do to the ranchers bottom line so why should I care what happens to yours."

Greed? Definition of greed .... excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves

The definition doesn't quite fit the circumstances. Bare bones fighting for existence is light years away from 'greed'.

Believe it or not, we DO care what happens to your market. That is one big reason why the R-Calf shenanigans are so maddening. They are not only playing with your futures, they are playing with ours. Beef demand dropping anywhere is no good for any of us, and if they have their way, that's whats going to happen. We have lived through it. We know what needs to be done to keep the consumers on our side. We know what is NOT being done in your country. :!:

As for the price of cows, how can the loss of 5% of cows coming to your market make cull cows double in price? Somehow that doesn't add up. :???: Could it be that due to the normal cattle cycle that was on it's way to the higher price end be a contributing factor?

 

[Kato]

Most Canadian consumers know who they are. If/when an American cow shows up, the anti-meat consumer groups that R-Calf has joined up with will be shouting it from the rooftops too.

Enjoy your cheques. Use them wisely to pay down debt.

"You want to talk about fear mongering, that's what most of these Canadians on here engage in"

It's not fear mongering, it's warning. If you choose to ignore it, then don't expect sympathy from us.

Have a nice day.

 

[cowsense]

Denny B. .... Just a few quick comments on your post. We have enough feedlot capacity to handle our feds....feeders only flow south when your lots outbid ours for cattle. We're working on expanding slaughter capacity and are exporting aggressively worldwide (over 50 countries now & growing). It's a matter of best available markets and not greed that determines where our cattle go. As for your current market prices , congratulations the beef cycle IS working and our boxed beef doesn't seem to be hurting your prices. A flood of cattle going south... I can't see it, too much hassle and will only see enough fats going south to re-establish competitive trade up here!

The fact that many Americans tend to overlook is that prior to BSE much of the beef consumed in our major population centres in eastern Canada was imported from the US! Quite possibly some of those Iowa feds came north ! Our industries are a lot more integrated than you think and we as producers have much in common regardless which side of the line we live on!!

 

[Tam]

Would you not want to protect your markets if the shoe was on the other foot

.

I would want to protect but not at the cost of destroying the consumer confidence as I know with out it we won't selling our beef either. How stupid is it to destroy something that is the really reason for you high prices the DEMAND for your product.

Who's Native born cow cost us our export market.It doesnt matter what happened to the product after the fact if we would never have imported that cow to begin with this would'nt be a problem.

You can THANK the hundred years of cattle trade for the Canadian cattle that now make their homes in the US You seem to think it was all the Canadians fault these animals were in the US how about the willing buyer or did we go down to the US and force our cattle on you.
And the statement it didn't matter what happen to the product after the fact. Do you think it doesn't matter to Japan that the US safeguard to stop her from getting into your FOOD chain failed? How do we know it won't fail again.

You know that the flood of cattle is coming down here as soon as the border is open why?

And NO we don't KNOW the FLOOD of cattle are comeing and the NCBA knows their not comeing and if you care to come and see you will see that Canada has increased their slaughter capacity over 20% in 2004 and some say by 2007 we could be self-sufficient in slaughter capacity. That is what the US Slaughter industry is fearing because if we are self-sufficient their will be no need for some of their plants that depended on our cattle.

Because of your greed you dont care what us importing your cattle will do to the ranchers bottom line so why should I care what happens to yours.

Talk about greed, in attempts to protect your bottom line R-CALF is willing to destroy the consumer confidence in all beef sold what do you think that will do to your bottom line. Maybe you better start careing about what is being said to protect your bottom line before you have no bottom line.

Dont give me the bull about the trucking if that border opens the trucks will be there.If you cant find them the packers and feedlots here will.

I thought we were forcing our cattle into the US market and now you are saying "If you cant find them the packers and feedlots here will" So it is not all the Canadians fault that these animals are down there. There is a WILLING buyer and they will find truck if needed to come get them. I see

All of the packing plants were built by large corporations they dont care what happens to you or me just who does it cheapest.

So why are you lashing out at Canadian rancher? Forget it I know the answer you need the packers even though you hate them but as long as they can play one off the other they win. so you figure by eliminating the competition they will have to deal with you. Well if R-CALF's strategy works you won't have to worry about the competition as there won't be any demand and the packers will close up and move to a country that R-CALF hasn't destroyed consumer confidence.

I dont believe your cattle to be of any better quality than mine I can compete with any low cost producer.But if keeping your cattle out keeps mine worth .5 cents more well thats $30.00 a calf but heres where the money is made butcher cows were worth around 30 cents prior now thier 60 cents thats $300 per 1000# now thats what were talking about the sooner under 30 month cattle are allowed the sooner over will begin coming in.

"I can compete with any low cost producer.But" Can you really compete in an open market the BUT make me wonder. :???:

You have no market value in your country so you chose to ship them here depressing ours but what the hell its still better than what you would have got at home

There you go again "you chose to ship them here depressing ours" wasn't it you that said that your packers and feedlot operators would find trucks for us if we couldn't find them in Canada. We have a market what you can't stand is that before the border closed that market demand was from your feedlots and packers. We weren't just giving the cattle to them they were out bidding the feedlot operators and packers here in Canada to get them. Isn't the really reason you don't want the border open is that you are scare if it is open they will be doing it again and you can't compete although you say you can.

 

[mrj]

The point being made that consumers do not know what R-CALF is seems pretty silly.

Consumers will not care what it is.......all they will care about is that a cattle producer organization is telling them that Canadian beef is unsafe and that they cannot tell the difference between Canadian and USA produced beef.

Not the brightest move they could have made. Too bad they are so committed to the proverbial act of cutting off their nose to spite their face!

The really sad thing is that the damage they cause will be spread across the industry rather than visited upon those supporting such self-serving (the R-CALF protectionist agenda) statements.

MRJ

 

[Kato]

Actually, they do, even in Toronto.

Every time the story comes up on the National News about the lawsuits and border blockages, the name of R-Calf comes up. I think people in the city have ears just like we do, so I would think they hear it too. :?

Don't underestimate the intelligence of the consumer. :!:

 

[Tam]

Most Canadian consumers know who they are.

Your telling me that the majority of the people that live in Toronto and Montreal know what R-Calf is? I highly doubt it.

Just how many New York and L.A. people know PETA and the rest of the ANTI BEEF groups that have the urban audience. And how many of them will be listening to those groups when they start using

R-CALF a BEEF ORGANIZATION SAID, while holding a joint press conference with anti beef groups, that "Canadian beef wasn't safe and it is a risk to your health". So if theirs isn't safe what makes US beef safe? The US beef industry is using the same science but not as strict rules to protect the US herd. And remember all you consumers there are millions of Canadian cattle living right here in the US that the beef industry can't find and you may be eating. If we have a outbreak of a disease of US origin the US beef industry will not be able to tell us where the animals were born and raised because the US beef system can't trace their herd. R-CALF had "M"ID taken out of "M"COOL. because they think it's not important enough to let the US consumer know where the US diseases originate. R-CALF didn't want to burden the US ranchers with the cost of implementing a system that could guarantee the US COOL label. Can any of us risk eating beef in the US???

We haven't heard the last of these anti beef groups Right now they don't have to spend their money R-CALF is doing the job for them and I bet they are just sitting back laughing and writing down their ideas on how they can use R-CALF statements to further damage consumer confidence and DEMAND, when R-CALF disappears into the wood work.

 

[mrj]

Hat, the best possible form of "COOL" is voluntary, consumer driven branded beef products, which we already have.

Harris Ranch Beef and dozens more producers, individually and in groups, are providing beef that is source verified right back to the producing ranch, something prevented in your COOL law.

MRJ

 

[mwj]

Hat
If you go to the doctor for tests, can you have the illness before you get the test results back?????????? Would you be cured if you never opened the test results?

 

[Tam]

Your telling me that the majority of the people that live in Toronto and Montreal know what R-Calf is? I highly doubt it.

Just how many New York and L.A. people know PETA and the rest of the ANTI BEEF groups that have the urban audience. And how many of them will be listening to those groups when they start using

R-CALF a BEEF ORGANIZATION SAID, while holding a joint press conference with anti beef groups, that "Canadian beef wasn't safe and it is a risk to your health". So if theirs isn't safe what makes US beef safe? The US beef industry is using the same science but not as strict rules to protect the US herd. And remember all you consumers there are millions of Canadian cattle living right here in the US that the beef industry can't find and you may be eating. If we have a outbreak of a disease of US origin the US beef industry will not be able to tell us where the animals were born and raised because the US beef system can't trace their herd. R-CALF had "M"ID taken out of "M"COOL. because they think it's not important enough to let the US consumer know where the US diseases originate. R-CALF didn't want to burden the US ranchers with the cost of implementing a system that could guarantee the US COOL label. Can any of us risk eating beef in the US???

We haven't heard the last of these anti beef groups Right now they don't have to spend their money R-CALF is doing the job for them and I bet they are just sitting back laughing and writing down their ideas on how they can use R-CALF statements to further damage consumer confidence and DEMAND, when R-CALF disappears into the wood work.

So if theirs isn't safe what makes US beef safe?........................NOT HAVING 4 Cases of BSE.

Whatever.............You are really reaching for something on this one. The anti-beef groups have always been here and they will always be here.

Yes they have always been here but they have never had a BEEF ORGANIZATION handing them a loaded gun to shoot you with before.

You may not have had 4 cases yet but 1 of ours was in your FOOD CHAIN and millions of other Canadian cattle are hiding somewhere in your herd. and By Oldtimer, R-CALF doesn't think the Feed system in the US is complying to the feed bans so how can you be sure that one of our BSE cows that hasn't been detected hasn't gone through your non complying feed system and is just waiting to give the anti beef groups more ammo against you. THANKS to R-CALF they have the loaded gun now all they need is a little more ammo and they will shoot you down like sitting ducks and you will only have R-CALF to blame and they did it to protect your higher cattle prices :roll:

 

[Bill]

THANKS to R-CALF they have the loaded gun now all they need is a little more ammo and they will shoot you down like sitting ducks and you will only have R-CALF to blame and they did it to protect your higher cattle prices

I am beginning to believe that USDA and NCBA are handing them the bullets. Why else would they have included OTM in the initial rule. The way it was presented and then hastily changed made it look flawed right from the start.