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DHS Buys More Hollow Points

Mike

Well-known member
March 25, 2013
While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year.

A solicitation on the Federal Business Opportunities website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.
Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”
Hollow point bullets are almost twice as expensive as full metal jackets, therefore the DHS’ explanation that it is buying huge quantities in bulk to “save money” doesn’t make sense.
 

littlejoe

Well-known member
I'm thinking hollow points--and any soft nose bullets---are against the Geneva Convention?

I think main reason for using them is to deliver all the available energy to target, and do maximum damage.

Why would you 'train' with a more expensive bullet?

Why would you 'train' with a bullet that has different ballistics than what you're supposedly gonna use 'for real'?

Who are you planning on shooting--'for real'?

Wisconsin sells about 600,000 deer lic.

Michigan about 700,000.

Out West--hell, everybody knows we're gun nuts....

Remington made it's 5 MILLIONTH model 700 a while ago.

How many of them you think are still around? You reckon any of the owners got a few 'soft noses' ?

tracers work both ways. people you shoot at tend to shoot back.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
I'm thinking hollow points--and any soft nose bullets---are against the Geneva Convention?

Well if they are, then someone's gonna be mighty pizzed about this. I bet I could dig up a few hundred quotes where he whined about Bush violating that precious Geneva Convention. :lol:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Personally, I don't honor the Geneva Convention.

Speer Gold Dots & Hornady XTP's in the pistols/revolvers.

Oh, and Eley subsonic's in my "Hitman" & "Mossad" .22's............. :lol: :lol:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
littlejoe said:
I'm thinking hollow points--and any soft nose bullets---are against the Geneva Convention?

Well if they are, then someone's gonna be mighty pizzed about this. I bet I could dig up a few hundred quotes where he whined about Bush violating that precious Geneva Convention. :lol:

He would whine if his nuts were in a vise..................... :wink:
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
You guys need to throw the Geneva Convention stuff out into the garbage pile.

I am pretty sure does not apply to the USA and domestic use. In fact I would put lunch and a coffee on it.

Wartime ammo buy rule of law needs to be solid - usually copper coated. Your domestic disturbances that are being planned for, expected and prepared for, do not conform in any way, shape or form to GC wartime rule of law.

The folks that are buying this stuff are doing so to stockpile for use at home.

In the end the people running your homeland security are training young people to make ready to fire upon that potential domestic terror problem.

They are more than concerned.

And you people will comply! Or else!

That is what it all boils down to - sooner or later it will be used.

BC
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
I'm thinking hollow points--and any soft nose bullets---are against the Geneva Convention?

I think main reason for using them is to deliver all the available energy to target, and do maximum damage.

Why would you 'train' with a more expensive bullet?

Why would you 'train' with a bullet that has different ballistics than what you're supposedly gonna use 'for real'?

Who are you planning on shooting--'for real'?

Wisconsin sells about 600,000 deer lic.

Michigan about 700,000.

Out West--hell, everybody knows we're gun nuts....

Remington made it's 5 MILLIONTH model 700 a while ago.

How many of them you think are still around? You reckon any of the owners got a few 'soft noses' ?

tracers work both ways. people you shoot at tend to shoot back.

You only have to experience the two way shooting range once to realize there are many people who WILL NOT shoot back. Trust me - talk is cheap and actions are well and truly quite rare.

My best

BC
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
littlejoe said:
I'm thinking hollow points--and any soft nose bullets---are against the Geneva Convention?

I think main reason for using them is to deliver all the available energy to target, and do maximum damage.

Why would you 'train' with a more expensive bullet?

Why would you 'train' with a bullet that has different ballistics than what you're supposedly gonna use 'for real'?

Who are you planning on shooting--'for real'?

Wisconsin sells about 600,000 deer lic.

Michigan about 700,000.

Out West--hell, everybody knows we're gun nuts....

Remington made it's 5 MILLIONTH model 700 a while ago.

How many of them you think are still around? You reckon any of the owners got a few 'soft noses' ?

tracers work both ways. people you shoot at tend to shoot back.

littlejoe-- most law enforcement uses hollow points because they transfer the majority of their energy into the target-- and then have less chance of passing thru to hit innocent bystanders...

Most law enforcement prefer to and most good firearms instructors advise to train with- and require they must qualify with "duty" ammo-- the same as you pack every day....

While this was seldom the option of many local/state Law Enforcement agencies back in my day because of budget restraints-- it is required by the federal agencies...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Minimum Ballistic Gel Penetration = 12"
Maximum = 18"

Bullets approved previously are Federal Hydra-Shocks & Speer Gold Dots.

They required Winchester to slow these 180 grainers down a bit to lessen recoil.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has awarded Winchester Ammunition the single largest ammunition contract in the history of federal law enforcement, worth a maximum of $54 million.
Winchester Ammunition will produce .40 S&W service ammunition, training ammunition, reduced-lead training ammunition and frangible ammunition for the FBI for one base year, with four, one-year renewal options.
"The innovation behind the enhanced .40 S&W bonded service round is a testament to our Winchester engineers and the quality of our manufacturing," said Dick Hammett, President, Winchester Ammunition.
Winchester's enhanced .40 S&W service ammunition is a 180-grain, bonded jacketed hollow point round and was selected over all other rounds that were tested. The FBI tests the terminal ballistics of each round by shooting a specific test protocol through various barriers such as heavy cloth, wallboard, plywood, steel and auto glass into ballistic gelatin.
In addition to the FBI, the contract impacts many agencies both inside and outside the Department of Justice, including the Drug Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and U.S. Marshal Service.
"On behalf of Winchester, we are extremely proud that our nation's premier law enforcement agency has selected Winchester ammunition to use in its mission of protecting and defending the United States," said Hammett.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
meanwhile, Law enforcement is begging, borrowing and stealing to have enough ammo.

Think aboout this for a bit...why would DHS and Fed. LE, be willing to buy up many times their historical usage amounts, and leave local/state LE short, for their historical/daily needs.
icon_rubbingchin.gif


One thought quickly crosses my mind...
 

Tam

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
meanwhile, Law enforcement is begging, borrowing and stealing to have enough ammo.

Think aboout this for a bit...why would DHS and Fed. LE, be willing to buy up many times their historical usage amounts, and leave local/state LE short, for their historical/daily needs.
icon_rubbingchin.gif


One thought quickly crosses my mind...

Could it be this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgPfudirj_Y

:?
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Tam said:
hypocritexposer said:
meanwhile, Law enforcement is begging, borrowing and stealing to have enough ammo.

Think aboout this for a bit...why would DHS and Fed. LE, be willing to buy up many times their historical usage amounts, and leave local/state LE short, for their historical/daily needs.
icon_rubbingchin.gif


One thought quickly crosses my mind...

Could it be this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgPfudirj_Y

:?

That's part of it.

But with the number of local/state LE agencies re-committing to their oaths, maybe the Feds. don't trust them to follow their lead, if the SHTF.

Kind of like having the marines, remove their firing pins, during a coronation.
 

Steve

Well-known member
DHS has claimed that they do not maintain ammunition, but use it. The numbers say something different.


at the end of three fiscal years they still maintained 73% of the total number of rounds purchased over the prior three

Since DHS has nearly 264 million rounds on hand, why do they need to purchase ammunition at all for at least two years? After all, in 2012, they only purchased a little over 103 million rounds.

it is a great article with facts and a real look at the numbers.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/03/running-the-numbers-on-dhs-ammo-purchases/

the DHS uses past data and actual purchases in the reporting to congress.. yet ignores the outrageous 1.2 billion requested in solicitations for bids..

in my understanding.. the DHS solicited for ammo..

the ammo must be on hand and available for immediate procurement..

and bids are held for a certain period...

so if the solicit bids for 1 million rounds.. and ten companies bid
, thus 10 million rounds are out of circulation..

until the DHS accepts a bid, the companies must hold the 1 million rounds..

so the DHS not buying 1.2 billion rounds.. just "holding" bids and tying up 1.2 billion rounds..

and as prices skyrocket they use the bids as justification for the mass procurements to buy more rounds thus saving money..
 
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