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Disturbing

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Cal

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http://fdd.typepad.com/fdd/2006/01/alert_saddams_c.html

Disturbing video clips from the Saddam regime, in case anyone needs reminded.
 

MsSage

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Sorry being at work i can not see your clip.

stevec......
Do we not have a responsiblity to humans everywhere? Sorry but I was taught that I am my brothers keeper..including you. :shock:
Sadam was givin money to Osama and providing training camps and weapons. SO we should allow them to kill over 1000 innocent americans and let it go? Hmmmmm If that is the case why dont you let some of the comments toward you on here go? Were you hurt? did you receive any bodly injury? Then let it go.....forget it ...move on....
 

Cal

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stevec said:
So two wrongs make a right? Is that the basis of your argument?

Should we invade every country on Earth? And are you willing to have Americans held to this same standard? Afterall, our history has a few blemishes in it, is that a valid reason for foreign countries to attack us?

(btw, your argument is Osama's argument, too.)
Who said anything about invading every country on earth? Do you think of Americans as the same caliber as those performing torture and dismemberment in these videos?
Would you protect our Homeland?
Would you have fought to stop the Holocaust?
Would you have fought against the attack on Pearl Harbor?
 

Cal

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We are our brother's keeper, we are not our brother's master.

What is the difference, you ask?
No, didn't ask that at all.
When we try to help someone, we should not be taking sides against someone else. (This is sometimes referred to as an honest broker.)

When two people are having a disagreement, it often requires a third person to help both sides see where they are EACH wrong. Of course, both sides want the third party to take THEIR side only. Nevertheless, this delicate balance is required to have any progress toward what both sides claim to want. They great irony of all conflicts is that both sides claim to want the same thing, but rather than cooperating with each other they see each other as the problem. (This is what I mean when I say "every war is a civil war." Taking sides in someone else's civil war is not the same as solving it. The stronger one will win temporarily, but the violence will flare up again as long as the root problem is unresolved. To resolve a conflict, the anger must dissapate. Democracy, in theory, is supposed to be that solution, but as we know, it still requires both sides to talk and think civilly about each other.
Sung to the them from "Barney" I presume.
Quote:
Who said anything about invading every country on earth? Do you think of Americans as the same caliber as those performing torture and dismemberment in these videos?


I didn't watch the video, but all violence is the same. Only the scale is different. The largest violent organization in history is the U.S. military. We can (and have) killed thousands of people from great distances. This is a rather unusual modern phenomenom. During most of history violence is up close and personal. With TV, movies, video games etc., we think of violence as entertainment and not really real.
Trying to decipher your doubletalk, but evidentually you have the same disdain, if not more, for the US military.
[/quote]Would you protect our Homeland? [/quote]

In general, I fear God more than man. "Protecting the homeland" was the intellectual justification that Hitler used. Do not underestimate the power of fear and pride, and how it distorts people's view of events.
So no, you would choose not protect the US. But doing so would, in your estimation, equal the justification Hitler used for the Holocaust? Your doubletalk is sounding more like treason all the time.

Quote:
Would you have fought to stop the Holocaust?

I am trying to stop the next one. There is no need to fight when people have the courage to think and abide by their faith.
"Abide by their faith"? Is that what your beloved Osama would do? So, no, you would have done nothing to stop the killing and torture of the jews.
Quote:
Would you have fought against the attack on Pearl Harbor?


We provoked the attack on Pearl Harbor. See War is a Racket (1935) by General Smedley Butler, who later ran as a Senator for the Republican party. He was also asked to take part in a presidential coup. Like Ike twenty years later, he also warned about the military-industrial complex.
I should have geussed, it was the US fault that we were attacked by the Japanese, and you would have just let them have Hawaii, and bent over and painted a big bulls-eye on your ass as they moved to the mainland.

The world is full of people who believe lies unknowingly.
Like you.
(The Devil is real, if you believe in God, isn't he?)
How do we know you're not the Devil? You surely won't take a stand against evil.

Butler described himself as being in a state of suspended animation when he was in the military. He only came to understand what he had done after he left the military. Likewise, all the Germans that followed Hitler didn't know what they were doing, and neither did Hitler himself. They were too wrapped up in pride and paranoia to question their own actions as being part of the problem. Here again, the importance of understanding that every war is a civil war: both sides are wrong. Civil war spreads as neighbors "take sides" rather than helping them to resolve each others complaints.
You're doing nothing to "resolve" anything. You talk in circles and preach pacifism and surrender, not giving credit to the branches of the military and the brave men and women out their protecting your sorry butt and freedom of speech.


Look at Bush, for example. He claims we are in Iraq for democracy, but when the democratic process elected Hamas in Palestine he is unwilling to support the winner. He really doesn't have a clue what he is doing. And neither does the Carlyle Group, which is the investment arm of the Bush side of the military-industrial complex.
He stated that funding would be cut off until the Hamas denounced violence against Israel and recognized it as a sovereign nation. How is that not recognizing them? Oh wait! I forgot! All the Jews were supposed to have perished in the Holocaust if it was up to you...nevermind.

Choosing between Bechtel and Halliburton is really not a democratic choice; in both cases the military-industrial complex wins, and the people lose.
No, the people only really lose when the "military-industrial" complex doesn't win.

in other words, we need to focus on the present, not the past.
You're the one who likes to quote history!

Hitler and Osama both came to power by claiming about injustices in the past. The Communists did the same, and the colonists did the same, too. No one can change the past. Their mistakes are their mistakes. The present is our future.
Yup, those colonies ultimately created quite a dictatorship, huh? :roll:

And who was it that was once on Saddam's side?
Gee, isn't that Rumsfeld with Saddam? If one is a brutal meglomaniac murderer, then what does that say about his friends? Shocking and awful it is! But it isn't anything new, either.
If you recall the weak and inneffective (sort of like you) Jimmy Carter pussed around and, through inaction, let the Shah of Iran be overthrown. Unfortunately the options for stabilizing the region were slim, and supporting Saddam, who had a lesser record at the time, was one of them.
 

Cal

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I am willing to love my enemy. Are you?
Yah, as for the enemies of this nation...I love 'em good and dead.
Love for Enemies

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. -Matthew 5

The fact that you twist scripture to promote total pacifism and submission to truly evil beings, ie. Hitler, Osama, is totally sickening.
Stop using men as the standard against which you measure yourself. You think you are superior to Hitler, Osama, Carter, "liberals," etc? They are all sinners just like you are. You are their mirror, you are not better than them. You are just like them, full of greed, pride and violent conceit. (or not.) Fear enslaves many people, including those in authority.
If you want to set up a pulpit and start preaching your nonsense, it might be a good idea to go to the "Everything Else" forumn. The thing is that Hitler and Osama terrorized, tortured, brutalized, and killed the weak and innocent. One has millions to his credit, the other just thousands. The fact that you pathetically plea to not get involved in any such circumstance is unforgivable. I would view practically everyone as superior to that. As for Carter, he was only a weak leader. Liberals just have a different perspective on many things. How could you possibly list them with Hitler and Osama? ...never mind, I don't want to know.
To take a stand against evil, one must see past the desperation that drives people into their errors, and find the person underneath, and liberate them from their anger, hate and fear. One cannot "kill" evil, because to kill it is to join it. (see Luke in Star Wars)

When one "lays down his own life so that another may live" he does not do so in an act of barbarity, but as an example of the power of peace and love. (Which is what the crucifixition represents.)
I hope that no children ever depend on you to physically protect them in any situation of conflict, you would fail them miserably. You are a pathetic disgrace of any resemblance to what a man should be.
 

Cal

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When Good Men Do Nothing
by Wayne Greeson
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
So much of the history of the struggle between good and evil can be explained by Edmund Burke's observation. Time and again those who profess to be good seem to clearly outnumber those who are evil, yet those who are evil seem to prevail far too often. Seldom is it the numbers that determine the outcome, but whether those who claim to be good men are willing to stand up and fight for what they know to be right. There are numerous examples of this sad and awful scenario being played out over and over again in the scriptures.

They Get Nothing Good Done
When good men do nothing, they get nothing good done. To be good, one must do good. The Lord commands his people to do good (Luke 6:35; Eph. 2:10). Christ "gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14).

In the parable of the talents, Jesus described a man who did nothing. When he received his Lord's money, he "went and digged in the earth, and hid his Lord's money" (Matt. 25:18). When his Lord returned, he returned to the Lord just what he had been given (Matt. 25:25). Notice, the servant did not do any outright evil, such as stealing the money, but then neither did he do anything good. He did nothing and he got nothing good accomplished. Jesus said he was a "wicked and slothful servant" (Matt. 25:26).

Jesus rebuked the church at Laodicea for doing nothing. "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Rev. 3:15-17).

Too many Christians and too many churches do nothing. They are standing idly by, they are mere spectators. They sit on the sidelines instead of actively participating and working for the good. If good wins, they join in the celebration though they did nothing to produce the victory. If evil wins, they will complain long and loud though their own apathy helped produce the undesirable result.

When Jesus found a fig tree with "nothing thereon, but leaves only" He cursed the tree and "presently the fig tree withered away" (Matt. 21:19). What will He do with those who claim to be good and yet who do nothing? John the baptist warned, "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire" (Matt. 3:10; John 15:2).

They Help Evil To Triumph
When good men do nothing, evil triumphs. Evil, sin and sinful men must be opposed. God commands those who are good, not just to avoid evil but actively oppose it.

Christians are to not only to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but (also) reprove them" (Eph. 5:11). Those who do nothing about sin and evil, help the sin and evil to prevail. One who is silent when there are those around him in sin becomes a partaker with them (Eph. 5:7).

In the days of Elijah, the silence of many had allowed the evil of Ahab and Jezebel to prevail throughout the land of Israel. "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? If the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word" (1 Kings 18:21). The silence of the people spoke volumes of their indecisiveness and inaction. Their failure to stand up, speak up and speak out permitted wicked and evil men to run rampant.

Jesus told of a traveler who was robbed, beaten and left him half dead. The men who did this were wicked and did a very wicked thing. But the Levite and priest allowed this evil to continue unanswered by doing nothing as they each "passed by on the other side" (Luke 10:31-32). Fortunately for the traveler there was one man, a Samaritan, who was willing to stand up for what was right (Luke 10:33-36).

Jesus warned "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad" (Matt. 12:30). In the fight against evil there is no middle ground, no gray area, no neutrality. Those who are not actively and vigorously fighting against evil are helping evil to triumph.

They Are No Longer Good
When good men do nothing, they are no longer good. Many have the mistaken notion that good is merely the absence of doing that which is wrong. Not so! One is good not merely because he does no evil, but because he is actively working for what is good. "Let him eschew evil, and do good" (1 Pet. 3:11). James explained, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).

The eldest of Israel, Reuben, knew his brothers' murderous plot against their younger brother Joseph was wrong. He started an attempt to deliver Joseph, but as he hesitated and vacillated, the other brothers sold Joseph into slavery. When Reuben heard what they had done, he realized his failure to act had helped to bring about this evil result.

Instead of correcting his error, Reuben sought to cover his guilt by agreeing with his brothers to lie to their father about Joseph's disappearance (Gen. 37:18-35). Reuben had "good intentions" and he was not even present when Joseph was sold into slavery, but he knew his inaction and absence made him just as guilty as the rest of his wicked brothers. This guilt continued to haunt him through the years (Gen. 42:21-22).

The prophet Obadiah severely condemned the Edomites for doing nothing when evil was befalling their brethren, the Jews. When Jerusalem was invaded by her enemies, the Edomites "stood on the other side" doing nothing but watching the slaughter as spectators. God said by their failure to act and to help their brethren "even thou wast as one of them" (Obad. 11).

Today, there are preachers and Christians who fail and refuse to meet the real foe, refute error and fight the enemy. Instead, they have turned to viciously savaging their own brethren. They are filled with bitterness and hatred and they maliciously attack, slander and misrepresent other Christians and gospel preachers.

Paul warned about such men and behavior among those professing to be Christians, "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another" (Gal. 5:15). Those who engage in such behavior are spiritual cannibals.

While the conduct of these so-called Christians is shameful, what about those supposedly "good" men who do nothing? Those stand on the other side and do nothing but watch as their brothers are being slandered, slaughtered and devoured, they cease being innocent bystanders and idle spectators. Their failure to act not only allows evil to triumph, but makes them just as guilty as the spiritual cannibals they refuse to reprove and rebuke. In God's words, "even thou wast as one of them" (Obad. 11).

Conclusion
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Gal. 6:7). Those who fail or refuse to do good in the face of evil are sowing some dangerous seeds. They are doing nothing good as Jesus commanded them to do; they are helping evil to win and have ceased being good and have become partakers of the evil they did nothing to stop.

Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not do sit by and do nothing. Stand up and be counted, speak up against evil and speak out against evil men and their sinful deeds.
 

Cal

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stevec said:
Cal, Cal, Cal. So you think you are a "man" because you are willing to kill? Isn't that what the jihadists claim, too? Men have been killing men for centuries, and always using the same mis-logic that you are claiming. Hitler and Osama probably never killed anyone, (maybe Osama did when he was a CIA operative...you do know he was a CIA operative, don't you?) but what many leaders do (especially Hitler) is convince other people to be afraid. That fear leads to the violence (carried out by their true-believers.) Everyone who is violent thinks they are protecting something. Just as we try to protect our "freedom," the Nazi's were protecting their "homeland" and Osama is equally adament on protecting his "sacred soil." While the terms are different, they are all basically making the same claim. The blind follow the blind leaders. We now have our own "Homeland" security agency.

And you think I twist scripture, too? So you do believe in God? That's good. I hope He will open your eyes for you.

How is it that you see yourself as fit to judge who should live and who should die, when God says not to judge others and revenge is his? Like Eve, you have been deceived and bit the apple.

Leviticus 19:18
" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

It seems pretty clear to me. We are to love our enemy as ourself. We should seek to reconcile, not to exact revenge.

Do you carry around a lot of grudges?
You are beyond stupid. You advocate doing nothing and allowing evil to triumph. You push this same neutered philosophy as to what should have happened regarding history as well. You do not deserve to be on this site. It is no surprise that you have been kicked off of others.
 

BBJ

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stevec said:
Cal said:
You are beyond stupid. You advocate doing nothing and allowing evil to triumph. You push this same neutered philosophy as to what should have happened regarding history as well. You do not deserve to be on this site. It is no surprise that you have been kicked off of others.

Osama thinks Bush is evil. Bush thinks Osama is evil.

You are sure one of them is right. (Bush, obviously.)
I am sure they are both wrong about the use of their violence.

You are not evil, Cal, just confused. You have been seduced by fear, hate and anger.

...and why doesn't Bush accept a truce? Can you explain why it was offered again and why it was rejected again?

The truce was offered because that no good piece of crap bin laden knows he's losing. When have you ever seen someone who is winning at something offer up a truce. (oops, you proabably have huh?) As for President Bush not accepting the truth, COME ON YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS HERE! :twisted: :evil: :twisted: You would trust someone like that to abide by a truce? Give me a break, it's a good thing people like you don't have the power to make important decisions like this one. :mad:

Let me get this straight you don't think bin laden is evil? :roll: Now that makes sense. Now I've got you figured out for sure.
 

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