Who said anything about invading every country on earth? Do you think of Americans as the same caliber as those performing torture and dismemberment in these videos?stevec said:So two wrongs make a right? Is that the basis of your argument?
Should we invade every country on Earth? And are you willing to have Americans held to this same standard? Afterall, our history has a few blemishes in it, is that a valid reason for foreign countries to attack us?
(btw, your argument is Osama's argument, too.)
No, didn't ask that at all.We are our brother's keeper, we are not our brother's master.
What is the difference, you ask?
Sung to the them from "Barney" I presume.When we try to help someone, we should not be taking sides against someone else. (This is sometimes referred to as an honest broker.)
When two people are having a disagreement, it often requires a third person to help both sides see where they are EACH wrong. Of course, both sides want the third party to take THEIR side only. Nevertheless, this delicate balance is required to have any progress toward what both sides claim to want. They great irony of all conflicts is that both sides claim to want the same thing, but rather than cooperating with each other they see each other as the problem. (This is what I mean when I say "every war is a civil war." Taking sides in someone else's civil war is not the same as solving it. The stronger one will win temporarily, but the violence will flare up again as long as the root problem is unresolved. To resolve a conflict, the anger must dissapate. Democracy, in theory, is supposed to be that solution, but as we know, it still requires both sides to talk and think civilly about each other.
Trying to decipher your doubletalk, but evidentually you have the same disdain, if not more, for the US military.I didn't watch the video, but all violence is the same. Only the scale is different. The largest violent organization in history is the U.S. military. We can (and have) killed thousands of people from great distances. This is a rather unusual modern phenomenom. During most of history violence is up close and personal. With TV, movies, video games etc., we think of violence as entertainment and not really real.
So no, you would choose not protect the US. But doing so would, in your estimation, equal the justification Hitler used for the Holocaust? Your doubletalk is sounding more like treason all the time.In general, I fear God more than man. "Protecting the homeland" was the intellectual justification that Hitler used. Do not underestimate the power of fear and pride, and how it distorts people's view of events.
"Abide by their faith"? Is that what your beloved Osama would do? So, no, you would have done nothing to stop the killing and torture of the jews.I am trying to stop the next one. There is no need to fight when people have the courage to think and abide by their faith.
I should have geussed, it was the US fault that we were attacked by the Japanese, and you would have just let them have Hawaii, and bent over and painted a big bulls-eye on your ass as they moved to the mainland.We provoked the attack on Pearl Harbor. See War is a Racket (1935) by General Smedley Butler, who later ran as a Senator for the Republican party. He was also asked to take part in a presidential coup. Like Ike twenty years later, he also warned about the military-industrial complex.
Like you.The world is full of people who believe lies unknowingly.
How do we know you're not the Devil? You surely won't take a stand against evil.(The Devil is real, if you believe in God, isn't he?)
You're doing nothing to "resolve" anything. You talk in circles and preach pacifism and surrender, not giving credit to the branches of the military and the brave men and women out their protecting your sorry butt and freedom of speech.Butler described himself as being in a state of suspended animation when he was in the military. He only came to understand what he had done after he left the military. Likewise, all the Germans that followed Hitler didn't know what they were doing, and neither did Hitler himself. They were too wrapped up in pride and paranoia to question their own actions as being part of the problem. Here again, the importance of understanding that every war is a civil war: both sides are wrong. Civil war spreads as neighbors "take sides" rather than helping them to resolve each others complaints.
He stated that funding would be cut off until the Hamas denounced violence against Israel and recognized it as a sovereign nation. How is that not recognizing them? Oh wait! I forgot! All the Jews were supposed to have perished in the Holocaust if it was up to you...nevermind.Look at Bush, for example. He claims we are in Iraq for democracy, but when the democratic process elected Hamas in Palestine he is unwilling to support the winner. He really doesn't have a clue what he is doing. And neither does the Carlyle Group, which is the investment arm of the Bush side of the military-industrial complex.
No, the people only really lose when the "military-industrial" complex doesn't win.Choosing between Bechtel and Halliburton is really not a democratic choice; in both cases the military-industrial complex wins, and the people lose.
You're the one who likes to quote history!in other words, we need to focus on the present, not the past.
Yup, those colonies ultimately created quite a dictatorship, huh? :roll:Hitler and Osama both came to power by claiming about injustices in the past. The Communists did the same, and the colonists did the same, too. No one can change the past. Their mistakes are their mistakes. The present is our future.
If you recall the weak and inneffective (sort of like you) Jimmy Carter pussed around and, through inaction, let the Shah of Iran be overthrown. Unfortunately the options for stabilizing the region were slim, and supporting Saddam, who had a lesser record at the time, was one of them.And who was it that was once on Saddam's side?
Gee, isn't that Rumsfeld with Saddam? If one is a brutal meglomaniac murderer, then what does that say about his friends? Shocking and awful it is! But it isn't anything new, either.
Yah, as for the enemies of this nation...I love 'em good and dead.I am willing to love my enemy. Are you?
Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. -Matthew 5
If you want to set up a pulpit and start preaching your nonsense, it might be a good idea to go to the "Everything Else" forumn. The thing is that Hitler and Osama terrorized, tortured, brutalized, and killed the weak and innocent. One has millions to his credit, the other just thousands. The fact that you pathetically plea to not get involved in any such circumstance is unforgivable. I would view practically everyone as superior to that. As for Carter, he was only a weak leader. Liberals just have a different perspective on many things. How could you possibly list them with Hitler and Osama? ...never mind, I don't want to know.Stop using men as the standard against which you measure yourself. You think you are superior to Hitler, Osama, Carter, "liberals," etc? They are all sinners just like you are. You are their mirror, you are not better than them. You are just like them, full of greed, pride and violent conceit. (or not.) Fear enslaves many people, including those in authority.
I hope that no children ever depend on you to physically protect them in any situation of conflict, you would fail them miserably. You are a pathetic disgrace of any resemblance to what a man should be.To take a stand against evil, one must see past the desperation that drives people into their errors, and find the person underneath, and liberate them from their anger, hate and fear. One cannot "kill" evil, because to kill it is to join it. (see Luke in Star Wars)
When one "lays down his own life so that another may live" he does not do so in an act of barbarity, but as an example of the power of peace and love. (Which is what the crucifixition represents.)
You are beyond stupid. You advocate doing nothing and allowing evil to triumph. You push this same neutered philosophy as to what should have happened regarding history as well. You do not deserve to be on this site. It is no surprise that you have been kicked off of others.stevec said:Cal, Cal, Cal. So you think you are a "man" because you are willing to kill? Isn't that what the jihadists claim, too? Men have been killing men for centuries, and always using the same mis-logic that you are claiming. Hitler and Osama probably never killed anyone, (maybe Osama did when he was a CIA operative...you do know he was a CIA operative, don't you?) but what many leaders do (especially Hitler) is convince other people to be afraid. That fear leads to the violence (carried out by their true-believers.) Everyone who is violent thinks they are protecting something. Just as we try to protect our "freedom," the Nazi's were protecting their "homeland" and Osama is equally adament on protecting his "sacred soil." While the terms are different, they are all basically making the same claim. The blind follow the blind leaders. We now have our own "Homeland" security agency.
And you think I twist scripture, too? So you do believe in God? That's good. I hope He will open your eyes for you.
How is it that you see yourself as fit to judge who should live and who should die, when God says not to judge others and revenge is his? Like Eve, you have been deceived and bit the apple.
" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
It seems pretty clear to me. We are to love our enemy as ourself. We should seek to reconcile, not to exact revenge.
Do you carry around a lot of grudges?
stevec said:Cal said:You are beyond stupid. You advocate doing nothing and allowing evil to triumph. You push this same neutered philosophy as to what should have happened regarding history as well. You do not deserve to be on this site. It is no surprise that you have been kicked off of others.
Osama thinks Bush is evil. Bush thinks Osama is evil.
You are sure one of them is right. (Bush, obviously.)
I am sure they are both wrong about the use of their violence.
You are not evil, Cal, just confused. You have been seduced by fear, hate and anger.
...and why doesn't Bush accept a truce? Can you explain why it was offered again and why it was rejected again?