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Do We Need the Military Draft Again?

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Anonymous

Guest
Military draft should be considered: US war czar Fri Aug 10, 6:54 PM ET



WASHINGTON (AFP) - A top US military officer in charge of coordinating the US war effort in Iraq said Friday that it makes sense to consider a return of the draft to meet the US military's needs.


Lieutenant General Douglas Lute, who serves as a White House deputy national security adviser, said the all-volunteer military is serving "exceedingly well" and the administration has not decided it needs to be replaced with a draft.

But in an interview with National Public Radio, Lute said, "I think it makes sense to certainly consider it, and I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table."

"But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nations security by one means or another," he said.

Dana Perino, a White House spokeswoman, played down the general's remarks.

"The President believes an all volunteer military serves the country well and there is no discussion of returning to a draft. General Lute's comments are consistent with the President's stated policy," she said from Kennebunkport, Maine.

The United States did away with the draft in 1973 near the end of the Vietnam War.

The US military has preferred an all-volunteer force because it has allowed it to recruit better educated, more motivated troops for a high-tech force.

But commanders worry that repeated deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan will break the force.

"As an army officer, this is a matter of real concern to me," Lute said.


"Ultimately, the American army, and any other all-volunteer force, rests with the support and the morale and the willingness to serve demonstrated by our -- especially our young men and women in uniform," he said.

"And I am concerned that those men and women and the families they represent are under stress as a result of repeated deployments," he said.

"And when the system is under stress, its right to be concerned about some of the future decisions these young men and women may make. I think our military leaders are right to be focused on that," he said.


Separately, the US military said the army and marines met their recruiting goals in July and were on track to meet their recruiting targets for the year.

But the army, which missed its recruiting goals in May and June, is now offering new recruits 20,000 dollar bonuses if they sign up and ship out to boot camp before September 30, the end of the fiscal year.

"Theres also a professional and broader strategic argument to this, and that is that when our forces are as engaged as they have been over the last several years, particularly in Iraq, that were concerned as military professionals that we also keep a very sharp edge honed for other contingencies outside of Iraq," Lute said.

He said a key test will come in April when combat brigades now in Iraq begin reaching the end of tours that already have been extended from a year to 15 months.

The military will then face decisions on whether to extend tours beyond 15 months, or deploy brigades that have had less than a year between tours to rest and recover, in order to maintain the current level of forces in Iraq.


Currently there are 162,000 US troops in Iraq, the most there has been since the US invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

"I do agree that come the spring, some variables will have to change -- either the degree to which the American ground forces, the marines and the army in particular, are deployed around the world to include Iraq, or the length of time theyre deployed in one tour, or the length of time they enjoy at home. Those are, essentially, the three variables," Lutte said.

Lute has been dubbed the "war czar," but he called it "an fortunate term because it doesn't describe my job at all."

He said his job was to match the efforts of the bureaucracy in Washington with the needs on the ground in Iraq.

"Im in charge of about 15 people. Now thats not exactly very czar-like, but what I am able to do is make sure that efforts are aligned properly," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070810/pl_afp/usiraqmilitarydraft_070810225435;_ylt=AgQ3dQYmXTHAuc2mwlj_oBVH2ocA
 

Steve

Well-known member
He said his job was to match the efforts of the bureaucracy in Washington with the needs on the ground in Iraq.

Isn't that an oxymoron...Matching the Washington Bureaucracy with the Military needs in Iraq..

as for the draft....who would go?....who would be excluded?...

would an HIV infected drug addicted crackhead get an exemption,..
while a young girl heading for med school have to serve in the infantry?

Using the draft as a dividing issue to scare the young and the liberals is just another anti-war activist strategy ...
 

schnurrbart

Well-known member
Steve said:
He said his job was to match the efforts of the bureaucracy in Washington with the needs on the ground in Iraq.

Isn't that an oxymoron...Matching the Washington Bureaucracy with the Military needs in Iraq..

as for the draft....who would go?....who would be excluded?...

would an HIV infected drug addicted crackhead get an exemption,..
while a young girl heading for med school have to serve in the infantry?

Using the draft as a dividing issue to scare the young and the liberals is just another anti-war activist strategy ...

The same people who are allowed in the military now would be the ones to serve. Except that maybe the rules would be tightened again. The all volunteer military works fairly good until war starts then things start to fall apart. I'm like the old time religion saying, if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you. I personally feel that EVERY young American should serve in a mandatory minimum 2 year service, either in the military or a stateside Peace Corp organization. With the draft, there would be fewer degenerates, crooks, gang-bangers etc in the military. I find that most who are against the draft seem to be rightwingers. Why is that?
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I guess it depends if you believe in NeoCon:


The neocons work for the world financiers whose accumulated wealth is growing out of proportion and needs more and more global "events" to make it grow. Wars are the best means for lending big sums of money to governments. Another option used in the past is to lend money to countries with corrupt leadership: A proven formula applied by both the World Bank and the IMF. In order to completely get control of the banking system in China and thus the Chinese economy, they have to create a financial crisis leading to a world depression. This event will also allow Cheney and Bush to declare emergency measure and suspend the American constitution. This way, they would have achieved a major objective which is to end democracy in the "perceived" cradle of democracy and would pave the way for world fascism. No more middle class but a world of masters and slaves.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I realize that's not the answer you want OT but one has to look at the bigger picture.......... draft our men so no one will be here to protect the USA American......

---------------------------------------

The Neocons have never been interested in promoting democracy, at least not a democracy as everybody else would define it, "a government controlled by the will of the majority of the people, respecting the rights of minorities".

Neocon ideology has an extremely low view of humanity. Common man is considered as basically violent, unruly, debased and destructive. Therefore he must be ruled by an intellectual elite. And people can only be ruled successfully, if they are united against a common enemy. If there is no enemy dangerous enough, one must be invented. Those who are being ruled must be constantly deceived by their rulers about their true goals,for ordinary people are not capable of understanding the "necessary" steps, the elite has to take to reach their goals.

World peace is NOT a goal the Neocons dream about. It would quite obviously contradict their fundamental belief that every society needs an enemy so it can function and be ruled.
Neocons promote war and militarism not for the protection of America or even American interests in the world, but in order to give the people a common goal.

Neocon policies have trashed the American economy, plunged the country into deep debt,brought down the Dollar, neglected necessary infrastructure and overstretched the American military to the breaking point.
The Neocon Bush Administration has overturned large parts of the American constitution and laid the groundwork for a possible police-state. The American values of personal freedom and protection by the rule of civil law which are supposedly being defended in Iraq are being sacrificed at home.
The Neocons are definitely not interested in democracy anywhere in the world.

But there is one point, where the Christian Science Monitor got it right: "Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel" but the second part of the sentence is again another smoke-screen: "which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region".

Many of the Neocons have a history of an extensive working relationship with the Israeli government.
In a policy paper written by some of the Neocon architects for the Iraq war it states, that in order for Israel to "secure the realm" other Middle Eastern countries, first of all Iraq, must be broken into smaller states along ethnic and religious sectarian lines hostile towards each other.

So even after the breaking up of most Middle Eastern countries, peace is not an option. These mini-states must be kept in constant turmoil, so they will not be tempted to form an alliance which Israel might see as a threat.
This chaotic situation is not in the interest of the American military which would have to police it nor even in the interest of most of the American based corporations, except the military industrial complex.

The Neocons are not in the business of protecting the interests of the American people or even American corporate interest.

The Neocons were propelled into positions of power by a part of the global financial elite which shares their cynical views on humanity and finds their methods useful for the consolidation of capital and power.
For some inside this global financial elite the state of Israel had been a pet project since it´s inception.



Check out www.goldensextant.com, Purloined Minutes. Is it a joke or is it real? Looks real to me, and they are quite prepared for martial law.
 

hotdryplace

Active member
I served with the last of the draftees. Most that I knew were good but never great soldiers and the rest were just there until their two years were up. Very few soldiers were married then. Todays soldiers are more motivated and stay in longer. They cause fewer problems and are better educated. About half are married which brings much greater stability.
If we need more soldiers, and we do, pay higher salaries, enlistment and reenlistment bonuses. Doing these things will be cheaper than setting up a draft system which will take years to see results from any way. If your doing it for the 'fairness' and equality of classes' thing, forget it. Congress will build loopholes for the rich who will get out of going any way. Always have, always will. Please don't saddle the military with a policy that degrades its effectiveness.

LIBERALS= PROUDLY ATTACKING OUR DEFENDERS AND DEFENDING OUR ATTACKERS FOR OVER FORTY YEARS.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
That was an article I found on the internet........ and I copied and pasted.



My own words:
there is definitely something wrong with our leaders of this country. There has not been any leadership for "we the people " for quite some time.... I don't know the answer to it but I do know I don't like it. The only thing I know is that we the people had better get our country back or we're SOL.

I know some may think its "kooky" ideas and just ludicrous to even believe something like this........... but you know ... they didn't believe Noah either when he built the arc.

So believe whatever you want to ......... just be proactive and not reactive.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
The army is offering a $20,000 enlistment enticement or hadn't you heard??

I don't know if they've been successful with it or not.
 

Larrry

Well-known member
I don't know the answer to it but I do know I don't like it

This explains a lot about you.
With this thinking, well I have better things than try to reason with your absud assumptions. After all why debate what you don't know.
 

hotdryplace

Active member
schnurrbart said:
Steve said:
He said his job was to match the efforts of the bureaucracy in Washington with the needs on the ground in Iraq.

Isn't that an oxymoron...Matching the Washington Bureaucracy with the Military needs in Iraq..

as for the draft....who would go?....who would be excluded?...

would an HIV infected drug addicted crackhead get an exemption,..
while a young girl heading for med school have to serve in the infantry?

Using the draft as a dividing issue to scare the young and the liberals is just another anti-war activist strategy ...

The same people who are allowed in the military now would be the ones to serve. Except that maybe the rules would be tightened again. The all volunteer military works fairly good until war starts then things start to fall apart. I'm like the old time religion saying, if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you. I personally feel that EVERY young American should serve in a mandatory minimum 2 year service, either in the military or a stateside Peace Corp organization. With the draft, there would be fewer degenerates, crooks, gang-bangers etc in the military. I find that most who are against the draft seem to be rightwingers. Why is that?

I agree that if you draft anyone, then you should draft absolutely everyone. I think Germany still has the system you are talking about, but its very unpopular and will likely be ended in a few years. I believe a similar system in the US would be impossible to achieve politically, no matter how beneficial it would be.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
maybe we won't need the draft:

Hinchey, Feingold Introduce Bills to Censure Bush, Cheney, Gonzales

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/5709/1/277/


Larrry......... if you understand all that is going on please enlighten the rest of us...... the internet has more news than the radio or tv.... it doesn't have the censure that radio and tv do (however I'm sure the president/congress will change that in the future as well if they can get by with it)
 

Cal

Well-known member
MoGal said:
maybe we won't need the draft:

Hinchey, Feingold Introduce Bills to Censure Bush, Cheney, Gonzales

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/5709/1/277/


Larrry......... if you understand all that is going on please enlighten the rest of us...... the internet has more news than the radio or tv.... it doesn't have the censure that radio and tv do (however I'm sure the president/congress will change that in the future as well if they can get by with it)
Feingold’s bill, S Res 302, regarding Iraq, has one current cosponsor, US Sens. Barbara Boxer (D-CA). S Res 303, regarding the rule of law, has two cosponsors, including US Sen. Boxer as well as US Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA).

Feingold also had sponsored a censure bill in the previous Congressional Session, S Res 398, which had three co-sponsors: Boxer, Harkin, and later US Sen. John Kerry (D-MA). It is unclear why Feingold waited eight months into the current Session to reintroduce a censure bill.

Hinchey’s bills, H Res 625 and H Res 626, have identical sets of 19 original cosponsors.

Those cosponsors are US Reps. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Michael Capuano (D-MA), Steve Cohen (D-TN), Danny Davis (D-IL), Sam Farr (D-CA), Bob Filner (D-CA), Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), John Hall (D-NY), Michael Honda (D-CA), Marcy Kaptur (D-OH), Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), Barbara Lee (D-CA), Carolyn Maloney ( D-NY), James Moran (D-VA), Ed Pastor (D-AZ), Steve Rothman (D-NJ), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Carol Shea Porter (D-NH), and Diane Watson (D-CA).
What more is there to say? The bunch that salivate for the "Fairness Doctrine".
 

Steve

Well-known member
schnurrbart
I find that most who are against the draft seem to be rightwingers. Why is that?

Must have mis-understood my post...I'm not against the draft,..I would just like a little clarification...

Since what came shows that those who do little productive would be left out, while those whom are bettering themselves would be drafted, I think the idea has a major fairness issue, and that should be dealt with first...

My proposed Draft solution...use a point system....if you have no points you get drafted and serve until you get 3.0 evals for two consecutive years....in other words,...bad time don't count...

and just to make the liberals happy....all gays would be drafted first....they been raising a hissy (kinda like Kola in the Jursey Steve thread),..so let-em serve..

Now on to the points....those with no points get drafted first...

High school graduate...your GPA = your awarded points
High school drop out ....sorry Negative one point for every year you skipped..

Clean record...one point for every good year..
Convictions...negative points for time on Probation-in jail,--ect.

held down a job...one point for every employed year...
NO-Job...no points....

I am sure for every good trait an American has....we can award points...and for those with no points...well,..Hello,..Iran will be your wake-up call....
 

schnurrbart

Well-known member
Steve said:
schnurrbart
I find that most who are against the draft seem to be rightwingers. Why is that?

Must have mis-understood my post...I'm not against the draft,..I would just like a little clarification...

Since what came shows that those who do little productive would be left out, while those whom are bettering themselves would be drafted, I think the idea has a major fairness issue, and that should be dealt with first...

My proposed Draft solution...use a point system....if you have no points you get drafted and serve until you get 3.0 evals for two consecutive years....in other words,...bad time don't count...

and just to make the liberals happy....all gays would be drafted first....they been raising a hissy (kinda like Kola in the Jursey Steve thread),..so let-em serve..

Now on to the points....those with no points get drafted first...

High school graduate...your GPA = your awarded points
High school drop out ....sorry Negative one point for every year you skipped..

Clean record...one point for every good year..
Convictions...negative points for time on Probation-in jail,--ect.

held down a job...one point for every employed year...
NO-Job...no points....

I am sure for every good trait an American has....we can award points...and for those with no points...well,..Hello,..Iran will be your wake-up call....

Were you ever in the military? Not being snide, just wondering how you could desire to have high school drop outs, gang bangers, felons etc in the military with you? I spent time in the draft amry and the all volunteer army and I got to tell you there are dummies in both but overall the draft was better. Every one should serve their country in some capacity and I mean govt run and supervised just like the military. If everyone did that, this country would be a lot better off. As it is right now, the majority of military folks are people without a job, lower education etc. the Gaurd and Reserves are a little better off but a high % of them went in to get their college paid for and nothing else. Many are married and have jobs which may or may not be waiting for them when they come back. Don't tell me that they are assured of their job back because there are ways to get around that and a lot of employers are trying it. Saw where they had over 16000 complaints last year alone against employers who were trying to stiff a Reservists or a Guardsman.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
What would be wrong with mandatory military service? Sure, not everyone could tote a gun, but even a paraplegic could work in an office or a behind the lines position, freeing up an able bodied individual for front line service.

I would go so far as to say that military training should begin in public school......kids in PE need the exercise, could begin learning basics such as unarmed combat, small arms, and PT. Imagine a country were every citizen is a black belt and has a license to carry a concealed weapon....what do you bet inner city personal crime would drop like a rock?

At the age of 18 every citizen should report to the military service of their choice. At age 20 they are discharged to a militia unit where they have a 15 year committment. And once they successfully complete their initial tour of duty, they should get state sponsored education at no charge.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Goodpasture said:
What would be wrong with mandatory military service? Sure, not everyone could tote a gun, but even a paraplegic could work in an office or a behind the lines position, freeing up an able bodied individual for front line service.

I would go so far as to say that military training should begin in public school......kids in PE need the exercise, could begin learning basics such as unarmed combat, small arms, and PT. Imagine a country were every citizen is a black belt and has a license to carry a concealed weapon....what do you bet inner city personal crime would drop like a rock?

At the age of 18 every citizen should report to the military service of their choice. At age 20 they are discharged to a militia unit where they have a 15 year committment. And once they successfully complete their initial tour of duty, they should get state sponsored education at no charge.

Almost sounds like what Israel requires today....
 

Steve

Well-known member
Were you ever in the military? Not being snide,

Retired. military..

just wondering how you could desire to have high school drop outs, gang bangers, felons etc in the military with you?

While I was not a felon, nor a gang-banger...but, as most that know me, knew I wasn't far from it,.. I was a high school drop out...and heading down the wrong path...so it was one of the best things that happened to me...

After boot camp and a run in with one of the meanest SOBs I ever met...things turned around....I am now a Christian....well educated..and a productive member of our society...

So yes, I stand by what I said....if anything it is time for US to start expecting something from those who give so little....


What would be wrong with mandatory military service?
Nothing.....Just that my point system gives the Military time to gear up for all the "dummies"....

BTW Schnurrbart,...in college I maintained a 4.0 GPA...so the use of the word dummy to describe me is inaccurate....
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Almost sounds like what Israel requires today....
Very similar......it worksfor them in as hostile a world environment as there is in the world....it would work for us.

Steve said:
While I was not a felon, nor a gang-banger...but, as most that know me, knew I wasn't far from it,.. I was a high school drop out...and heading down the wrong path...so it was one of the best things that happened to me...
How many men that came out of WWII or Korea or Viet Nam have told the story of how they were given a choice between jail and service. And for the most part those that chose the services became productive citizens. Where is the outlet for that same group of people today? Get into a little bit of trouble, where the judge 30 years ago would have told them jail or army, they are now denied any outlet for their growth....so it is off to jail with them.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Goodpasture
How many men that came out of WWII or Korea or Viet Nam have told the story of how they were given a choice between jail and service. And for the most part those that chose the services became productive citizens. Where is the outlet for that same group of people today? Get into a little bit of trouble, where the judge 30 years ago would have told them jail or army, they are now denied any outlet for their growth....so it is off to jail with them.

I agreed with KolanuRaven once...and my computer crashed...

And while I am nervously looking at my old computer..... I couldn't agree more...

While I feel the military is ill equipped to deal with some of todays' criminals, with proper screening many of those who end up, in and out of jail for most of their lives could with a little discipline be productive...
 
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