schnurrbart said:
Steve said:
schnurrbart
I find that most who are against the draft seem to be rightwingers. Why is that?
Must have mis-understood my post...I'm not against the draft,..I would just like a little clarification...
Since what came shows that those who do little productive would be left out, while those whom are bettering themselves would be drafted, I think the idea has a major fairness issue, and that should be dealt with first...
My proposed Draft solution...use a point system....if you have no points you get drafted and serve until you get 3.0 evals for two consecutive years....in other words,...bad time don't count...
and just to make the liberals happy....all gays would be drafted first....they been raising a hissy (kinda like Kola in the Jursey Steve thread),..so let-em serve..
Now on to the points....those with no points get drafted first...
High school graduate...your GPA = your awarded points
High school drop out ....sorry Negative one point for every year you skipped..
Clean record...one point for every good year..
Convictions...negative points for time on Probation-in jail,--ect.
held down a job...one point for every employed year...
NO-Job...no points....
I am sure for every good trait an American has....we can award points...and for those with no points...well,..Hello,..Iran will be your wake-up call....
Were you ever in the military? Not being snide, just wondering how you could desire to have high school drop outs, gang bangers, felons etc in the military with you? I spent time in the draft amry and the all volunteer army and I got to tell you there are dummies in both but overall the draft was better. Every one should serve their country in some capacity and I mean govt run and supervised just like the military. If everyone did that, this country would be a lot better off. As it is right now, the majority of military folks are people without a job, lower education etc. the Gaurd and Reserves are a little better off but a high % of them went in to get their college paid for and nothing else. Many are married and have jobs which may or may not be waiting for them when they come back. Don't tell me that they are assured of their job back because there are ways to get around that and a lot of employers are trying it. Saw where they had over 16000 complaints last year alone against employers who were trying to stiff a Reservists or a Guardsman.
I agree with schnurrbart about forcing the military as it is today, to accept people with law enforcement records. Not having to deal with these types has changed they way the military motivates and trains servicemen. The abuse we went through has largely been replaced by positive motivation. I've had many soldiers come back from basic/ait /osut saying they had a great time! Although I was skeptical for a long time, the soldiers coming through this system are excellent. The outstanding job they are doing in Iraq proves the case.
Now I'm not necessarily arguing against what goodpasture and steve are proposing' but a lot of thought needs to be put into this;
The military has to train/motivate/discipline to the lowest common denominator of the people the nation gives them to work with. Like you I remember the jail or mil guys who were b#%$hslapped into becoming good soldiers and later good citizens. But in my experience for every one of those good jail or mil guys, there were two who were as bad or worse on the day they left the service than on the day they entered. To various degrees they skirted the line of the UCMJ, cheated, scammed, shirked, malingered, thieved, damaged equipment with pride, and were careless in dangerous situations with life and limb(others as well as their own). They brought the effectiveness/reliability/cohesion of a unit down. Reliable people had to do more to cover for them and in combat distractions like that cost lives. If you want the military to be a social reform system instead of as pure a war fighting organization as possible then this should be clearly stated. Also keep in mind there are large numbers of females now, in all units except pure infantry, armor and arty. at co/btry/trp level.
I think separate units with discipline/motivation systems designed to cope with these people might be a possibility.
As far as a universal draft :
It would be a gigantic program with a vast expansion of military/civil/administrative systems. We'd have to reopen dozens , perhaps hundreds of bases similar to what the US did in WWII. If we owe it to our young citizens to give them the best training possible, (not just cannon fodder training with a corresponding waste of their time) then it will be extremely expensive in ammunition, weapons, fuel and equipment. It costs well over a $200,000 to recruit train equip and deploy one 'door kicker' ( we used to call them grunts) infantryman and 2 billion and 2 years to train and equip a new light inf div. of 15,000 men. And they don't even have the expensive things (except helos) like tanks, bradleys and self propelled artillery.
I'm not saying it would not be worth it, just that it is a political impossibility.
As far as schnurrbart's comments:"As it is right now, the majority of military folks are people without a job, lower education etc. the Gaurd and Reserves are a little better off but a high % of them went in to get their college paid for and nothing else."
I know you folks on the left have great contempt for the service members of today as shown by that statement. Yes many of them look forward to using their well deserved college benefits when they get home. But since this war has been going on for six years now, ( a full guard/reserve enlistment) almost all who signed up in that time knew they were very likely headed for Iraq or Afghanistan at some point. With the unemployment rate as low as it is and being high school/ged grads with no law enforcement records makes these guys prime targets for employers. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20061201.aspx
For just being motivated by college money, the Guard/ Reserves are sure stepping up to the plate and doing whats asked of them by the nation in Iraq and Afghanistan.There are easier ways to get through college than driving/escorting convoys, dodging/getting hit by IED's, RPG's, auto weapons/sniper fire on week long missions in 120 degree heat for 12-15 months.
Like it or not, these men and women are motivated by patriotism, comraderie, curiousity, courage, cause, adventure, a sense of doing something bigger than oneself, and......money for college.