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Dobbs on free trade

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Victorious Democrats will, with the opening of the 110th Congress, have a historic opportunity to right the course of a country that has been hell-bent on permitting free-trade corporatists and faith-based economics to bankrupt the nation.

As the New Year approaches, newly elected Democrats in the House and Senate will be battered by calls, even demands, to stay the course, rather than right it. And we can only hope they and their new leadership in both houses will have the courage and character to be rationalists and realists and overcome their partisan political debt to corporate America, and U.S. multinationals in particular.

Eye-glazing stuff, international trade. But the consequences of faith-based free-trade will be eye-popping in the disaster it wreaks on our economy and working Americans. The facts are anything but dull: For 30 consecutive years the United States has run a trade deficit, and our trade deficit has surged to record highs in each of the past four years. Our monthly deficits have reached record levels in two of the past three months.

Our current account deficit -- the broadest measure of international trade -- is on track to approach $1 trillion this year. And our current account deficit is almost 7 percent of our nation's gross domestic product, considerably above the threshold at which Federal Reserve studies have acknowledged our economy must make policy adjustments or face major financial crisis. We're borrowing about $3 billion a day just to pay for our imports, and our trade debt now stands at $5 trillion.

We will no longer have to be patient to see the impact of these faith-based policies in free trade. Signs are already beginning to mount that a reckoning is nearing. Our trading partners in Europe are counseling "vigilance" in the currency markets, as their anxiety rises with the value of the Euro against the dollar. For the first time, the Chinese government is publicly expressing its concern about the more than $1 trillion it holds in reserves.

But most disturbing of all are the comments of new Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who said in London Tuesday, "A strong dollar is clearly in our nation's interest and I feel very good today about the strength of the U.S. economy," as the U.S. dollar hit a 20-month low against the Euro. Treasury secretaries are not paid for their candor, but Paulson's rejection of our current reality won't bolster his credibility with either our trading partners or the new Democratic-led Congress.

The new Congressional leadership understands that, at least in part, their majority was won as a result of growing middle-class concerns over job insecurity, stagnant wages and disgust at a class of elites that has subordinated the well-being of our middle class to the dictates of corporate masters.

I hope they can acknowledge that so-called free trade has come at an inordinate cost to working men and women in this country. We've lost three million manufacturing jobs as a result of these so-called free trade agreements that enable corporate America to export plants, production and jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Millions more American jobs remain at risk of being outsourced. And wages in industries where jobs are being created, on average, pay 21 percent lower than industries in which jobs are disappearing, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

Amazingly, even our own top trade officials admit that U.S. free-trade policies aren't working. U.S. Trade Representative Susan Schwab appears to understand the consequences of the past few administrations' free trade policies, but she's shown little willingness to shift that policy. Schwab said, "...Our trade deficits are too high. We can't...pretend that the trade imbalance can just keep getting bigger with no cost."

Ambassador Schwab's Deputy Trade Representative, Karan Bhatia, says outright, "From Chile to Singapore to Mexico, the history of our [Free Trade Agreements] is that bilateral trade surpluses of our trading partners go up."

And yet we persist with our historical ignorance, and we continue to enter poorly negotiated agreements that pose great threats to the U.S. economy and the middle class. NAFTA, for example: In 1993, we had a $9.1 billion total trade deficit with Mexico and Canada. Last year we ran a $128.2 billion deficit with our North American neighbors, and we're on pace to break that record again this year.

Instead of opening new markets to U.S. products and services, the U.S. government over the past 10 years has negotiated nothing more than a series of outsourcing agreements. Aside from agriculture, our trade representatives have consistently steered clear of negotiations with Western Europe and Japan. We'll never achieve a tangible reduction in our trade deficit without significant exports to those markets.

The new Democratic-led Congress will be called a lot of names by the devoted servants of corporate America and the U.S. multinationals who have no regard for the standard of living or quality of life for working Americans and their families. I hope that we'll be able to call this new Congress true reformers and servants of the people.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
And yet we persist with our historical ignorance, and we continue to enter poorly negotiated agreements that pose great threats to the U.S. economy and the middle class. NAFTA, for example: In 1993, we had a $9.1 billion total trade deficit with Mexico and Canada. Last year we ran a $128.2 billion deficit with our North American neighbors, and we're on pace to break that record again this year.
Instead of opening new markets to U.S. products and services, the U.S. government over the past 10 years has negotiated nothing more than a series of outsourcing agreements. Aside from agriculture, our trade representatives have consistently steered clear of negotiations with Western Europe and Japan. We'll never achieve a tangible reduction in our trade deficit without significant exports to those markets.

I'm glad some other folks are now seeing NAFTA for the huge farce its been and big drain its been to the working class/small business's of the country.... Its coming up for reapproval and its time to repeal it...That would stop NAFTA Plus and the North American Union dead in its tracks for awhile...

And even with agriculture- I haven't seen much good in any trade agreements with Europe or Japan- just stall tactics on GMO's, Hormones, Bone Chips, etc.......
 

agman

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
And yet we persist with our historical ignorance, and we continue to enter poorly negotiated agreements that pose great threats to the U.S. economy and the middle class. NAFTA, for example: In 1993, we had a $9.1 billion total trade deficit with Mexico and Canada. Last year we ran a $128.2 billion deficit with our North American neighbors, and we're on pace to break that record again this year.
Instead of opening new markets to U.S. products and services, the U.S. government over the past 10 years has negotiated nothing more than a series of outsourcing agreements. Aside from agriculture, our trade representatives have consistently steered clear of negotiations with Western Europe and Japan. We'll never achieve a tangible reduction in our trade deficit without significant exports to those markets.

I'm glad some other folks are now seeing NAFTA for the huge farce its been and big drain its been to the working class/small business's of the country.... Its coming up for reapproval and its time to repeal it...That would stop NAFTA Plus and the North American Union dead in its tracks for awhile...

And even with agriculture- I haven't seen much good in any trade agreements with Europe or Japan- just stall tactics on GMO's, Hormones, Bone Chips, etc.......

We have a full-employment economy amidst all these so called exported jobs. Have they ever heard of in-sourcing? Historically, employment and economic growth are higher during periods of trade deficits. That is an indisputable fact. So much for the fear mongers who fail to recognize "results".

The claims made in the article are the same old BS that has gone on for decades. Yet this economy is the envy of the world. Five percent of the world's population which produces more than twenty-five percent of the world's output. It creates more jobs than the all the other industrialized nations. It has created a higher standard of living for more people than any nation on this planet. This great economy will continue to advance, albeit with brief periods of economic slowdown, just as it has for decades while the fear mongers and self-professed economic know-it-alls are proved wrong again just as they have been proven wrong in the past. Some people just never learn. They are so encapsulated in their own failure they refuse to see the light.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
And what are all these new "service sector" jobs paying in comparison to the jobs that were here 10-20 years ago?...

And you can preach all you want- but you'll never convince most on the street that inflation is not running about 2-3 times higher than government propaganda is putting out...You can't have 100-200% increases in gas, heating fuels and costs, fertilizer, paints, all chemicals, food, clothing etc. etc... without having inflation....Just because the government picks and chooses what to use for inflation figures and economy stability (housing starts) doesn't sell any papers anymore...

All the time we're building a huge trade deficit and the greatest budget deficit in the history of the nation-all which you want to leave for my children and grandchildren to repay...

Sorry Charlie- but I think the folks are waking up- as was shown on Nov. 7th and your elitist supporting neo-cons are going to be going the way of the dodo bird....Folks are sick of our country and sovereignty being sold out for multinational globalist corporations gains ....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oh, yeah, we're the envy or the world all right. :roll: China could sink us tomorrow without firing a shot - all they have to do is dump all of our IOUs that they hold. I'm sure the rest of the world wishes they were in that position instead of us.
 

agman

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
And what are all these new "service sector" jobs paying in comparison to the jobs that were here 10-20 years ago?...

And you can preach all you want- but you'll never convince most on the street that inflation is not running about 2-3 times higher than government propaganda is putting out...You can't have 100-200% increases in gas, heating fuels and costs, fertilizer, paints, all chemicals, food, clothing etc. etc... without having inflation....Just because the government picks and chooses what to use for inflation figures and economy stability (housing starts) doesn't sell any papers anymore...

All the time we're building a huge trade deficit and the greatest budget deficit in the history of the nation-all which you want to leave for my children and grandchildren to repay...

Sorry Charlie- but I think the folks are waking up- as was shown on Nov. 7th and your elitist supporting neo-cons are going to be going the way of the dodo bird....Folks are sick of our country and sovereignty being sold out for multinational globalist corporations gains ....

Why don't you check the earnings records for yourself OT. You might even learn something instead of reading NEGATIVE union propaganda.

Once again you are misinformed on the facts. This so-called "record" fiscal deficit does not even rank in the top five when compared to the size of our economy. Do you not think that makes a difference? Ours is the smallest of any of the G-7 countries who complain about the size of our fiscal deficit. Is that not a hoot? If memory serves me correctly there are only eleven years since the end of World War II when we did not run a fiscal deficit. Many were larger than the present one when measured relative to the size of our economy, which by the way now exceeds 13 trillion dollars.

Now why don't you name, for all the readers of this forum, which economy has out paced the U.S economy during all those years-name it please. See OT, you are not the only one engrossed in negatives. You have companions who are just as misinformed, miserable and wrong as you are concerning these matters.
 

agman

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Oh, yeah, we're the envy or the world all right. :roll: China could sink us tomorrow without firing a shot - all they have to do is dump all of our IOUs that they hold. I'm sure the rest of the world wishes they were in that position instead of us.

You are not the first one who has made such a foolish statement. Others before you have made the same claim. The streets of history are littered with their unfulfilled claims. Let me see, the U.S economy is 13 trillion and the Chinese economy is 2.4 trillion. I am really worried!!!!

Dumping all those dollars would really make sense would it not? You might actually think that one through. Who would be harmed most by that action?
 

ocm

Well-known member
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
Oh, yeah, we're the envy or the world all right. :roll: China could sink us tomorrow without firing a shot - all they have to do is dump all of our IOUs that they hold. I'm sure the rest of the world wishes they were in that position instead of us.

You are not the first one who has made such a foolish statement. Others before you have made the same claim. The streets of history are littered with their unfulfilled claims. Let me see, the U.S economy is 13 trillion and the Chinese economy is 2.4 trillion. I am really worried!!!!

Dumping all those dollars would really make sense would it not? You might actually think that one through. Who would be harmed most by that action?

If China did it, the world would follow. As to who would be harmed?-- Ever hear of suicide bombers? Are they only harming themselves? You can't properly attribute the western capitalist mentality to the Chinese. They don't think the same way most people here do.

A more likely scenario is that China would threaten to do it if we don't kowtow to some foreign policy decision they want us to make -- say on Taiwan or something similar. With the wrong leadership in Washington we would fold like a deck of cards. You also assume that China is concerned about its own people, the ones in China who would be harmed by a currency dump. The Chinese government could hardly care less about the well-being of its own people. They are expendable.

Your major error here is to project on the Chinese your own way of thinking.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
China would't dump our debt just for the heck of it. It would be in a serious showdown and would be weighed against military action. The would have the choice of lose some of their investment dollars or lose a bunch of tanks, ships, etc....
 

Econ101

Well-known member
We have already had a showdown with China over their currency manipulation and lost.

Agman, you are so far out there it is concerning.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Agman:
Historically, employment and economic growth are higher during periods of trade deficits. That is an indisputable fact. So much for the fear mongers who fail to recognize "results".

Who is disputing this? Any fool knows his standard of living increases when he finances his living expenses on credit.

It is when the payment comes due that the worries start.
 

agman

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Agman:
Historically, employment and economic growth are higher during periods of trade deficits. That is an indisputable fact. So much for the fear mongers who fail to recognize "results".

Who is disputing this? Any fool knows his standard of living increases when he finances his living expenses on credit.

It is when the payment comes due that the worries start.

You are among the group of fools who has been wrong for ...let's see, how many decades now!!! Can you even count that far Econ?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
agman said:
Econ101 said:
Agman:
Historically, employment and economic growth are higher during periods of trade deficits. That is an indisputable fact. So much for the fear mongers who fail to recognize "results".

Who is disputing this? Any fool knows his standard of living increases when he finances his living expenses on credit.

It is when the payment comes due that the worries start.

You are among the group of fools who has been wrong for ...let's see, how many decades now!!! Can you even count that far Econ?

Agman, I remember when the federal debt payments were a large part of the budget. Do you? If interest rates go up, they will become more and more a part of the budget.

When you start having to worry about your minimum payment on your credit cards and the rates go up, do you know what happens? I have never had that problem but when working in the banking industry have seen that to be a real big problem for many people. When that payment is mostly interest and not principle, they are in the trap.

You may not realize it but you may be in that trap too if you are living beyond your means.

Keep living in a dream world where debt doesn't matter. It will come back to bite you.
 

agman

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
China would't dump our debt just for the heck of it. It would be in a serious showdown and would be weighed against military action. The would have the choice of lose some of their investment dollars or lose a bunch of tanks, ships, etc....

Why would they not just dump our debt...puzzling is it not?

BTW, we have not lost any battle so far. The Chinese will adjust their currency. They are doing so in an orderly manner, no different than we would do. How much has our trade grown with China? They are now the third largest importer in the world? That was hardly so when their economy was stagnant. As their economy grows they will import even more and the trade balance will narrow appreciably. Unfortunately that cannot and will not happen tomorrow.

If the trade deficit worries you we could induce a prolonged recession or perhaps a depression, reduce incomes and solve the trade imbalance. That sounds like a great cure!!!!

Some of you people are so engrossed in negatives you fail to ever see the sunshine. The point is that for decades people such as yourself have preached the same fear mongering crap while this economy continues to grow while you and yours preach "collapse". Why is that so?

It is not what you think you know that is important. It is evidently what you don't know that contains the more important fators that have contributed too and created the greatest economic machine in the history of the world. If you can name a country that has out performed this one name it, if you can. I am certain all readers of this forum wish to be educated on that subject.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
China would't dump our debt just for the heck of it. It would be in a serious showdown and would be weighed against military action. The would have the choice of lose some of their investment dollars or lose a bunch of tanks, ships, etc....

Why would they not just dump our debt...puzzling is it not?

BTW, we have not lost any battle so far. The Chinese will adjust their currency. They are doing so in an orderly manner, no different than we would do. How much has our trade grown with China? They are now the third largest importer in the world? That was hardly so when their economy was stagnant. As their economy grows they will import even more and the trade balance will narrow appreciably. Unfortunately that cannot and will not happen tomorrow.

If the trade deficit worries you we could induce a prolonged recession or perhaps a depression, reduce incomes and solve the trade imbalance. That sounds like a great cure!!!!

Some of you people are so engrossed in negatives you fail to ever see the sunshine. The point is that for decades people such as yourself have preached the same fear mongering crap while this economy continues to grow while you and yours preach "collapse". Why is that so?

It is not what you think you know that is important. It is evidently what you don't know that contains the more important fators that have contributed too and created the greatest economic machine in the history of the world. If you can name a country that has out performed this one name it, if you can. I am certain all readers of this forum wish to be educated on that subject.

It's not good to have that economic machine hocked to the hilt just because we can. I haven't maxed out my credit cards, have you?
 

agman

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
China would't dump our debt just for the heck of it. It would be in a serious showdown and would be weighed against military action. The would have the choice of lose some of their investment dollars or lose a bunch of tanks, ships, etc....

Why would they not just dump our debt...puzzling is it not?

BTW, we have not lost any battle so far. The Chinese will adjust their currency. They are doing so in an orderly manner, no different than we would do. How much has our trade grown with China? They are now the third largest importer in the world? That was hardly so when their economy was stagnant. As their economy grows they will import even more and the trade balance will narrow appreciably. Unfortunately that cannot and will not happen tomorrow.

If the trade deficit worries you we could induce a prolonged recession or perhaps a depression, reduce incomes and solve the trade imbalance. That sounds like a great cure!!!!

Some of you people are so engrossed in negatives you fail to ever see the sunshine. The point is that for decades people such as yourself have preached the same fear mongering crap while this economy continues to grow while you and yours preach "collapse". Why is that so?

It is not what you think you know that is important. It is evidently what you don't know that contains the more important fators that have contributed too and created the greatest economic machine in the history of the world. If you can name a country that has out performed this one name it, if you can. I am certain all readers of this forum wish to be educated on that subject.

It's not good to have that economic machine hocked to the hilt just because we can. I haven't maxed out my credit cards, have you?

Why would I need to max out a credit card? Unlike you who wastes your time on unsupportable conspiracy accusations, I actually work for a living.

Do you know what percentage of people have no credit card debt? For the others who have credit card debt, do you know the average credit card debt that they carry? The facts, which you know nothing about, would even shock a complete phony like yourself.

BTW, do you know what percentage of people engaged in agriculture have no debt at all? The whiners, who are in the minority, make all the noise and go broke while the others become more successful-such is capitalism. That is a good thing.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Agman, "As their economy grows they will import even more and the trade balance will narrow appreciably."

That's what we were told when NAFTA was being pushed. We were supposed to feed Mexico's economy and then reap the rewards. That's not what happened in real life.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
agman said:
Econ101 said:
agman said:
Why would they not just dump our debt...puzzling is it not?

BTW, we have not lost any battle so far. The Chinese will adjust their currency. They are doing so in an orderly manner, no different than we would do. How much has our trade grown with China? They are now the third largest importer in the world? That was hardly so when their economy was stagnant. As their economy grows they will import even more and the trade balance will narrow appreciably. Unfortunately that cannot and will not happen tomorrow.

If the trade deficit worries you we could induce a prolonged recession or perhaps a depression, reduce incomes and solve the trade imbalance. That sounds like a great cure!!!!

Some of you people are so engrossed in negatives you fail to ever see the sunshine. The point is that for decades people such as yourself have preached the same fear mongering crap while this economy continues to grow while you and yours preach "collapse". Why is that so?

It is not what you think you know that is important. It is evidently what you don't know that contains the more important fators that have contributed too and created the greatest economic machine in the history of the world. If you can name a country that has out performed this one name it, if you can. I am certain all readers of this forum wish to be educated on that subject.

It's not good to have that economic machine hocked to the hilt just because we can. I haven't maxed out my credit cards, have you?

Why would I need to max out a credit card? Unlike you who wastes your time on unsupportable conspiracy accusations, I actually work for a living.

Do you know what percentage of people have no credit card debt? For the others who have credit card debt, do you know the average credit card debt that they carry? The facts, which you know nothing about, would even shock a complete phony like yourself.

BTW, do you know what percentage of people engaged in agriculture have no debt at all? The whiners, who are in the minority, make all the noise and go broke while the others become more successful-such is capitalism. That is a good thing.

Agman, how is that pertinent to the point being made? Would you like to make your points nstead of asking questions? If you did, you might understand that your counter point does not hold water.
 
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