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Dobbs transcript on packaged meat

Sandhusker

Well-known member
The federal government tonight is once again being accused of failing to protect this nation's food supplies. There are rising concerns over the use of carbon monoxide to keep meat looking fresh, and for a long time.

As Kitty Pilgrim reports, it is a common practice in the meat industry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Red, fresh meat, or is it? Congressional hearings pointed to the pitfalls of treating meat with carbon monoxide.

REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: Treating meat with carbon monoxide allows the meat to keep its freshly-ground red color, even though the meat may have spoiled.

I have a picture on the screen, and there's two packages of ground left that were out at room temperature for 27 hours. You can see the one which was treated with carbon monoxide looks fresh and red, while the other meat has turned brown and quite nasty-looking.

PILGRIM: Congressman Stupak and Congressman Ed Markey have introduced legislation that would require meat treated with carbon monoxide to be labeled, so the consumer would know.

According to the industry, two-thirds of all meat and chicken is no longer cut by a butcher in front of customers or in back of the supermarket case. Now prepackaged, case-ready meat is prepared off site at large distributors, and then shipped to supermarkets.

The carbon monoxide treatment keeps meat looking fresh in that process. Food experts say a pound of ground beef cut by a butcher goes brown in four to five days. But meat treated with carbon monoxide by a meat packer can stay looking fresh for weeks. It's the same with imported seafood. Congressman Stupak says his subcommittee tested seafood from China and Vietnam treated with carbon monoxide; 20 percent turned out to be bad and was refused.

MARION NESTLE, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: It's a problem, because consumers aren't informed about how meat is treated. The meat is being treated with chemicals, so that it's going to look like it's fresher than it is. I think consumers have a right to know how fresh their meat is.

PILGRIM: Industry representatives of large meat packers say the additive is harmless and it's easy to tell when the product goes bad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Now, the FDA has declared the meat treated with carbon monoxide is safe, so the use of carbon monoxide is not banned in the United States.

But, three years ago, the European Parliament's Environmental Committee outlawed this process, because consumers could be misled about the freshness of the meat.

Makes sense, doesn't it, Lou?

DOBBS: Yes, it makes sense. And it's interesting that the United States is in the position of following the Europeans on a practice to benefit consumers, to protect consumers, because this government has had such an outstanding record in inspecting imported food, inspecting food.

As you have been reporting, it's mind-boggling the breakdown on all of the protections for the American consumer in this country. It's a national disgrace.

PILGRIM: Well, the congressmen are calling this a completely deceptive process. And they -- they're probably right.

DOBBS: Congressman Stupak, his reaction to that nasty-looking hamburger, I thought he was very kind. It looked a lot more than nasty to me.

PILGRIM: It was a bit of a shock, actually, the pictures.

DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much for that outstanding report -- Kitty Pilgrim.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
DOBBS: Yes, it makes sense. And it's interesting that the United States is in the position of following the Europeans on a practice to benefit consumers, to protect consumers, because this government has had such an outstanding record in inspecting imported food, inspecting food.

As you have been reporting, it's mind-boggling the breakdown on all of the protections for the American consumer in this country. It's a national disgrace.
PILGRIM: Well, the congressmen are calling this a completely deceptive process. And they -- they're probably right.


Than USDA/FDA/Government folks all testified to Congress earlier this month that right now its impossible for them to inspect, test, or guarantee the wholesomeness and safety of imported foods--

Then a couple days later in their half hearted statement accepting the M-COOL law- the NCBA says this

John Queen, NCBA president, also emphasizes labeling isn't a solution to recent safety problems with imported foods. "Any product that does not meet the health and safety standards of the U.S. should not be sold here -- period," Queen says. "Don't put an 'eat-at-your-own-risk' label on it. It has no place on our stores shelves. Turn it away at the border, or throw it out."

Now Queen knows as well as I do that food sources/slaughter plants/mills adequate inspections in many of these foreign countries is not happening--and that its probably more likely to get a Presidential pardon than to get a FDA/USDA inspection team in on an unannounced inspection in many of these countries (China jumps to mind first- Mexico takes pesos to get in anywhere)....

But I have yet heard NCBA make one argument or complaint about their Packer Buddies and the elitist multinational traders dumping this junk into our country :mad: And opening more countries up to import uninspected junk from :mad:
His statement leaves me a little confused-- Is NCBA changing their tone and now asking for more government oversight-regulation and control on/over their Packer Buddies :???:

Maybe Maxine will interpret.....
 

mrj

Well-known member
OT, I don't "interpret".

Tell us, has the incidence of foodborne illnesses from beef increased or decreased since Atmospheric packaging and centrally located cutting and packaging of beef became more prevalent?

Do those packages have a 'Use by________' date on the label or not?

I do know that making beef a safer product was a major reason for those practices, and would like you to demonstrate for us just how it benefits packers to sell spoiled beef (or any other product, for that matter)?

Finally, does Dobbs benefit more, or less, when he has an incendiary 'expose' as the basis for his show?

mrj
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
mrj said:
OT, I don't "interpret".

mrj

In other words-- you don't know what Queen is talking about either-Eh :???: :wink: :lol:

As far as Dobbs-- he has sure been making NCBA look like a bunch of Big Corporate flunkies and dishonest dopes every night in their battling against labeling and their support of the Packers/USDA defrauding the consumers --which kind of upset me at first, since many tie cattlemen and ranchers to the NCBA name-- but he has made it quite clear that NCBA does not represent the majority of ranchers/cattlemen out there, that have actually been promoting and fully supporting giving the consumers honest, truthful labeling......



Congressmen introduce bill to label carbon monoxide packaging
By Janie Gabbett on 7/25/2007 for Meatingplace.com


Legislators have introduced a bill that would mandate labeling meat packaged in color-enhancing carbon monoxide gas, cosponsors Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) and Edward Markey (D-Mass.) said in a statement.

The Carbon Monoxide Treated Meat Safe Handling, Labeling, and Consumer Protection Act would require that fresh meat, seafood and poultry packaged with CO be labeled to inform consumers that they should not use color as an indicator of freshness.

The bill comes on the heels of Safeway's announcement last week that it was pulling CO-enhanced meat product from its shelves under pressure from Stupack and fellow Michigan Democrat John Dingell. (See Safeway pulls product packaged in CO on Meatingplace.com, July 19, 2007.)

The American Meat Institute disagrees.

AMI Foundation Vice President of Scientific Affairs Randy Huffman said modern food safety and packaging technology now delivers longer shelf life on many meat products, so the CO packaging safely allows the color to match the product's actual shelf life.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, "Finally, does Dobbs benefit more, or less, when he has an incendiary 'expose' as the basis for his show? "

Why do I get the feeling that you've never asked the same of the one-man foundation? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

In your rush to blindly defend the big packers once again, you completely missed the point, MRJ. I'll provide the questions and answers for you to help you out.

Q: Do people equate the color red with freshness in beef?
A: Yes

Q: Is CO treated beef red because of a chemical reaction?
A: Yes

Q: Is CO treated beef red because it is fresh?
A: No

Q: When consumers buy red CO treated beef because they think the color belies freshness, are they getting what they think they are?
A: No

Q: Isn't this basicaly the definition of deception?
A: Yes

What does NCBA think about CO packaging, MRJ?
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I have in stores around here Mike.......... but its kinda a moot point since they reduce it by about 10 percent on the day it expires and put it in the frozen section so it becomes frozen, at least the Country Mart store does. I have no idea what they do with cuts that don't sell after a few more weeks in the freezer section though. Maybe they thaw it and grind it into hamburger???
 

Mike

Well-known member
MoGal said:
I have in stores around here Mike.......... but its kinda a moot point since they reduce it by about 10 percent on the day it expires and put it in the frozen section so it becomes frozen, at least the Country Mart store does. I have no idea what they do with cuts that don't sell after a few more weeks in the freezer section though. Maybe they thaw it and grind it into hamburger???

From the USDA/FSIS website:

"Is Dating Required by Federal Law?
Except for infant formula and some baby food (see below), product dating is not generally required by Federal regulations. However, if a calendar date is used, it must express both the month and day of the month (and the year, in the case of shelf-stable and frozen products). If a calendar date is shown, immediately adjacent to the date must be a phrase explaining the meaning of that date such as "sell-by" or "use before."

There is no uniform or universally accepted system used for food dating in the United States. Although dating of some foods is required by more than 20 states, there are areas of the country where much of the food supply has some type of open date and other areas where almost no food is dated."
 

mrj

Well-known member
So, for how long do you think a business will benefit from selling bad meat?

I'm pretty sure I've seen "Best if Used By___" date on meat, but will check it out next weekend on my way home from Cheyenne Frontier Days rodeo.

Sandhusker, I have talked to Dittmer and others who do what he does. Looked them in the eye and believe them to be honest. It appears all you do is call them names because they say things you don't like, which in my opinion says more against you than against Dittmer and the others.

I'm not defending big packers, I'm saying go with science on these issues. You, OT, and your friends cannot KNOW the things you claim against the beef industry. You CANNOT do more than ASSUME that the inspections are crooked, non-existent, or whatever your claim of the moment is.

You just may be blaming the wrong people IF beef has been mis-represented as fresher than it really is in those packages. WHO controls how long such meat is placed for sale, after all? Isn't that the retailer, instead of the packer? It is highly unlikely retailers have not been instructed as to how long such packaging should keep the product safe for sale, IMO.

The rules call for foreign inspection programs to have trained inspectors and systems comparable to US inspections. Whether there are "kickbacks", "bribes" or failures of the systems, or how widespread of often problems occur, or how safe of unsafe imported beef may be you are highly unlikely to KNOW!

While people MAY use color as ONE criteria for judging freshness of beef, they darn well better use smell, and feel (if it's slimy, it's past it's prime if not spoiled), not just color.

Back at you.....is beef PACKAGED in CO filled containers red because of reaction....OR is it red because the oxygen which CAUSES browning is kept away from the beef by the CO???

I think freshness of beef is extended for a period of time BECAUSE the CO excludes oxygen AND because the impervious packaging also excludes bacterial cross contamination of the beef from other sources outside the package. I am trying to find out if my recall on that matter is correct or not and will post when I can find out.

When consumers buy CO PACKAGED beef, they are getting state of the art processing and packaging intended to keep the beef at optimum quality for the longest safe period of time possible, a REAL value to the consumer, IMO. If packer haters succeed in eliminating this step in providing safer product for consumers, it will be a loss for us all. If a few retailers have mis-used the packaging, that adds to the tragedy.

My goal is to keep everyone honest and focused on providing the best and safest beef possible to consumers. That goal is NOT well served by spreading rumors, attacking others in the food chain, discounting science and anyone you can find to BLAME for problems.

It is well served by working with people in positions of responsibility, from the guy pushing cattle up the chute right up to and including the corporate leadership, to find and correct problems preventing us from reaching that goal. We each and all have our points of responsibility from Farm Gate to Consumer Plate, including the consumer who prepares the beef at home.

Anyone who denies their responsibility harms us all.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, "Sandhusker, I have talked to Dittmer and others who do what he does. Looked them in the eye and believe them to be honest. It appears all you do is call them names because they say things you don't like, which in my opinion says more against you than against Dittmer and the others."

You've got a "foundation" that consists of only one man who claims to have an advisory board - but won't say who they are, claims he's supported by cattlemen - but won't say who they are, says the "foundation" is "is to promote free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain" - but only writes on one topic. Follow a clown and you'll be a clown.

MRJ, "While people MAY use color as ONE criteria for judging freshness of beef, they darn well better use smell, and feel (if it's slimy, it's past it's prime if not spoiled), not just color.

"MAY"? Good grief, MRJ, you KNOW damn well they do. What is this "May" stuff? Honesty? How do you suggest a consumer smell and feel beef that is wrapped in plastic?

MRJ, "Back at you.....is beef PACKAGED in CO filled containers red because of reaction....OR is it red because the oxygen which CAUSES browning is kept away from the beef by the CO??? "

Chemistry is not the issue here. The issue is whether or not that beef being sold as fresh is as represented. It's about that honesty you claim you're interested in.

MRJ, "My goal is to keep everyone honest and focused on providing the best and safest beef possible to consumers. That goal is NOT well served by spreading rumors, attacking others in the food chain, discounting science and anyone you can find to BLAME for problems. "

What science is being discounted? What rumors spread? What untruths have been uttered? Here's the deal, MRJ. Selling beef as fresh when it is not is fraud, no matter what color, shape, smell, etc... When a consumer gets burned by that, they know that buying beef is a crap shoot and you just pushed them towards chicken.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker, what is your definition of fresh meat.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Fresh is subjective. Personally, we like to eat thawed meat within 3 days, so I guess my definition is 3 days or less.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker, what is your definition of fresh meat.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I think the USDA says meat that doesn't go below 28 F is considered fresh. I'd be willing to bet that the meat shipped from the plant to the store stays real close to 28 F.

I believe the freshest meat is flash frozen directly after processing, then slow thawed by the consumer (or me). I eat fresh meat almost a year later! :shock:
 

Ben Roberts

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker, what is your definition of fresh meat.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

Sandhusker wrote-"Fresh is subjective. Personally, we like to eat thawed meat within 3 days, so I guess my definition is 3 days or less."


Sandhusker, You seem to know what is good for the consumer, using your definition "Fresh is subjective" retailers could freeze meat for months, thaw it, and sell it as FRESH! As long as they sold it within three days. Thawed meat is not Fresh Meat. Although the poultry industry uses your definition in marketing chicken.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker, what is your definition of fresh meat.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I think the USDA says meat that doesn't go below 28 F is considered fresh. I'd be willing to bet that the meat shipped from the plant to the store stays real close to 28 F.

I believe the freshest meat is flash frozen directly after processing, then slow thawed by the consumer (or me). I eat fresh meat almost a year later! :shock:

CO packaged meat in the meat case is over 28F and can stay there for weeks. Do you think the average consumer considers that to be fresh? I don't.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
RobertMac said:
Ben Roberts said:
Sandhusker, what is your definition of fresh meat.

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I think the USDA says meat that doesn't go below 28 F is considered fresh. I'd be willing to bet that the meat shipped from the plant to the store stays real close to 28 F.

I believe the freshest meat is flash frozen directly after processing, then slow thawed by the consumer (or me). I eat fresh meat almost a year later! :shock:

CO packaged meat in the meat case is over 28F and can stay there for weeks. Do you think the average consumer considers that to be fresh? I don't.

One of the problems associated with fresh meat is that some retail outlets do not have butchers available anymore and instead of ordering cryovac primals that have to be cut "in store", they get them in prepackaged for shelf display.

Wal Mart was one of the first instigators of this practice so that they could lay all their butchers off thus preventing them from forming a union.

The shelf life of the Cryovac Primals is from 8-12 weeks. The shelf life of "pre-packaged cuts" is only about 1 week.

As always, "Follow the Money".
 

mrj

Well-known member
RM, we use frozen beef, too. However, consumer tests (scientifically designed to get the honest opinions) show the consumer does not trust or want frozen beef. They prefer instant gratification and don't really trust the waterey product frozen beef appears to be.

Again, has incidence of foodborne illnesses from beef increased or decreased since the popularity of pre-packaged beef that passes through fewer hands, with the attendant possiblility of careless handlers?

Safety is important, too, not just streamlining the process.

mrj
 
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