obviously when a rampage shooting occurs.. one could easily conclude the guy was nuts..
but the assumption that mentally ill commit more crime is well ludicrous..
facts don't' back up the assumption..
in fact if categories of people who do commit violent crime were barred from having guns.. some very specific groups would be barred.
alcoholics.. including those who just happen to get drunk occasionally.
drug users..
and some minorities, hispanics, blacks and native Americans
so in theory.. preventing those who we consider mentally ill from having guns doesn't make US safer..
To make US safer we would have to target the groups of folk who commit more of the violent crimes at higher rates,...
like,.. drunks, druggies, some minorities.
but that wont happen.. instead those who seek help lose their GOD given rights..
oh by the way liberal areas are more prone to violent crimes the conservative areas.. maybe we could just take the guns away from all the liberals as well?
but the assumption that mentally ill commit more crime is well ludicrous..
facts don't' back up the assumption..
in fact if categories of people who do commit violent crime were barred from having guns.. some very specific groups would be barred.
alcoholics.. including those who just happen to get drunk occasionally.
drug users..
and some minorities, hispanics, blacks and native Americans
For violent crime by race in 2011, 59.4% of those arrested were white, 38.3% were black, and 2.2% were of other races.[23] For persons arrested for homicide in 2011, 49.7% were black, 48% were white, and 2.3% were of other races.
Illinois grapples with keeping guns from the mentally ill
Background checks can do little to stop violence, some experts say
In the volatile debate over gun rights in Illinois, there is at least one prohibition that both sides of the issue claim they want: The dangerously mentally ill should not be allowed to own a firearm.
The shooting deaths of 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard this month by a man who had showed signs of psychosis has reignited a national debate over keeping firearms out of the hands of disturbed individuals.
In Illinois, lawmakers recently made it easier for authorities to weed out those with severe mental illness looking to buy a gun. The passage of a concealed carry law, which goes into effect in January, calls for a fortified electronic database that would require mental health practitioners statewide to report patients they believe pose "a clear and present danger" to themselves or others.
The new requirement makes Illinois one of a handful of states whose law goes beyond federal standards.
Even so, the background checks will still do little to keep a senseless act of mass violence from happening in Illinois, say some experts.
"Given the leaks in the system, this does nothing to keep us any safer. It will only hurt people with mental illness and not do anything to protect us," said Mark Heyrman, a professor of mental health law at the University of Chicago who helped write the state's mental health code.
Previously, mental health providers were required to report only those who had been determined by the courts to be mentally defective or had been a patient in a psychiatric hospital within the past five years.
Under the new law, some mental health practitioners — including clinical psychologists, social workers, counselors, physicians and registered nurses — will be required to report patients they believe pose an imminent threat.
"I don't know any clinician who would not have someone who is violent or threatening hospitalized ... which is what makes this so silly," Heyrman said.
The new measures certainly would not have flagged Aaron Alexis, the Navy Yard gunman, despite the fact that he told police he heard voices and had had brushes with the law, including misconduct with guns. His issues never led to criminal convictions or rose to the level of involuntary commitment, which would have brought him before a judge — the only way his name could be entered into a federal database.
It wouldn't have captured Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter, either.
Project Description: This project is a scientific inquiry into the societal problem of firearm violence; the link between mental disorder and risk of firearm violence; and the function of laws, such as the federal Brady Act, designed to reduce that risk in part by limiting access to guns for persons with mental illness.
Over 30,000 people were killed with firearms in the U.S. in 2006, accounting for two-thirds of violent fatalities. Acts of gun violence by mentally disordered individuals—such as the 2007 shootings at Virginia Tech—have been the focus of intense media coverage and public concern. However, scientific evidence is lacking to support the assumption of increased risk of gun violence among persons with mental illness in general, and little is known about whether existing gun laws are effective in protecting the public. Some legal scholars and mental health professionals allege that the laws are stigmatizing and discriminatory.
Results: Over a 13-year period, there were 45 violent crimes committed per 1,000 inhabitants. Of these, 2.4 were attributable to patients with severe mental illness. "People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001)"
There is overwhelming epidemiological evidence that the vast majority of people with psychiatric disorders do not commit violent acts. Only about 4 percent of violence in the United States can be attributed to people with mental illness, compared with 7 percent among people without any mental disorder.
Alcohol and drug abuse are far more likely to result in violent behavior than mental illness.
Subjects with alcohol or drug use disorders were more than twice as likely as those with schizophrenia to report violent behavior.
. Psychiatrists, using clinical judgment, are not much better than chance at predicting which individual patients will do something violent and which will not.”
It would be even harder to predict a mass shooting, Dr. Swanson said, “You can profile the perpetrators after the fact and you’ll get a description of troubled young men, which also matches the description of thousands of other troubled young men who would never do something like this.”
All the focus on the small number of people with mental illness who are violent serves to make us feel safer by displacing and limiting the threat of violence to a small, well-defined group. But the sad and frightening truth is that the vast majority of homicides are carried out by outwardly normal people in the grip of all too ordinary human aggression to whom we provide nearly unfettered access to deadly force.
so in theory.. preventing those who we consider mentally ill from having guns doesn't make US safer..
To make US safer we would have to target the groups of folk who commit more of the violent crimes at higher rates,...
like,.. drunks, druggies, some minorities.
but that wont happen.. instead those who seek help lose their GOD given rights..
oh by the way liberal areas are more prone to violent crimes the conservative areas.. maybe we could just take the guns away from all the liberals as well?