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DOW tanks

Tam

Well-known member
I thought Obama and Geithner were the answer to all the problems but the Dow is lower today after Geithner's non plan for the banks, the Stimulus package and Housing bailout announcements than it has been since Oct 2002. It's now below 7500 :roll:
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
The Free Market just doesn't like what they have to say.
Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

The last time we had a good spike in the market was
before the election when McCain was showing some strength.
Personally, I don't think Obama gives a rats a--.

If he didn't say ANYTHING it would help...
 

Tam

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
The Free Market just doesn't like what they have to say.
Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

The last time we had a good spike in the market was
before the election when McCain was showing some strength.
Personally, I don't think Obama gives a rats a--.

Just heard the new Ramussen Poll on the Housing plan and 38% agree while 45% disagree but guess what is being stuff down the tax payers throats anyway. Only 37% agreed with the Stimulus plan and guess what. This guy does not care what kind of support he has and it is starting to show in his job approval rating that has gone from 65% a month ago to 60% this morning. I can only see it doing down as people have to start paying for his stimulus plan and bailouts.
 

per

Well-known member
October is never a good month in the markets. Hope all this is worked out before we get to see next October.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Tam said:
I thought Obama and Geithner were the answer to all the problems but the Dow is lower today after Geithner's non plan for the banks, the Stimulus package and Housing bailout announcements than it has been since Oct 2002. It's now below 7500 :roll:


Now wait up here....I remember some of you plainly saying, back when Bush was in charge and the Dow would slip, that the Dow was free market and the Pres & Admn really had not effect on the actions of the market.


Now all of a sudden it's Obama's fault.

:roll: :roll:
 

Mike

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Tam said:
I thought Obama and Geithner were the answer to all the problems but the Dow is lower today after Geithner's non plan for the banks, the Stimulus package and Housing bailout announcements than it has been since Oct 2002. It's now below 7500 :roll:


Now wait up here....I remember some of you plainly saying, back when Bush was in charge and the Dow would slip, that the Dow was free market and the Pres & Admn really had not effect on the actions of the market.


Now all of a sudden it's Obama's fault.

:roll: :roll:

OT said it was Bush's fault. So why not Zer0?
OT wrote on Sept 2008: Dow bounced back today- but what will it do tomorrow? Confidence by investors and consumers was hit hard by all the Bush/Paulson/Congress
:lol: :lol:
 

Tam

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Tam said:
I thought Obama and Geithner were the answer to all the problems but the Dow is lower today after Geithner's non plan for the banks, the Stimulus package and Housing bailout announcements than it has been since Oct 2002. It's now below 7500 :roll:


Now wait up here....I remember some of you plainly saying, back when Bush was in charge and the Dow would slip, that the Dow was free market and the Pres & Admn really had not effect on the actions of the market.


Now all of a sudden it's Obama's fault.

:roll: :roll:

Geithner speaks and by day end the DOW dropped 400 points Obama speaks and the DOW hits a six year low. Tell me again how these guys are not affecting the markets. :roll:
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Tam said:
kolanuraven said:
Tam said:
I thought Obama and Geithner were the answer to all the problems but the Dow is lower today after Geithner's non plan for the banks, the Stimulus package and Housing bailout announcements than it has been since Oct 2002. It's now below 7500 :roll:


Now wait up here....I remember some of you plainly saying, back when Bush was in charge and the Dow would slip, that the Dow was free market and the Pres & Admn really had not effect on the actions of the market.


Now all of a sudden it's Obama's fault.

:roll: :roll:

Geithner speaks and by day end the DOW dropped 400 points Obama speaks and the DOW hits a six year low. Tell me again how these guys are not affecting the markets. :roll:

Tam the goverment package is not negatively affecting the dow....If you have been watching the more important dictators of the market liks GM. you would see the fear that they may be closing or of rumours of them out right selling,have the market stalled..It would take years for the free market to regain anything without stimulas......If blue chip companies lay off or close the doors it would devaste the markets....unfourtunatly wages have not increased in the last 10 to 12 years yet everything eles has.therfore to live a so called comfortable life people lived off credit...That credit paid the companies that made the money that kept the market rising .
Now there is no credit,no money from wages and very little positive movement in any companies profits...How can the free market or doing nothing,correct a problem that is totally based on credit based spending to maintain itself...How do you purpose that doing nothing will not dig the hole deeper?....Many folks are in such a bind that they are selling off thier remaing stock,this creating an even deeper finiacial hole...At this point even those who are trying to dollar cost average thier stocks May never see the returns they are hoping for in years to come..In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....
 

Tam

Well-known member
nonothing said:
Tam said:
kolanuraven said:
Now wait up here....I remember some of you plainly saying, back when Bush was in charge and the Dow would slip, that the Dow was free market and the Pres & Admn really had not effect on the actions of the market.


Now all of a sudden it's Obama's fault.

:roll: :roll:

Geithner speaks and by day end the DOW dropped 400 points Obama speaks and the DOW hits a six year low. Tell me again how these guys are not affecting the markets. :roll:

Tam the goverment package is not negatively affecting the dow....If you have been watching the more important dictators of the market liks GM. you would see the fear that they may be closing or of rumours of them out right selling,have the market stalled..It would take years for the free market to regain anything without stimulas......If blue chip companies lay off or close the doors it would devaste the markets....unfourtunatly wages have not increased in the last 10 to 12 years yet everything eles has.therfore to live a so called comfortable life people lived off credit...That credit paid the companies that made the money that kept the market rising .
Now there is no credit,no money from wages and very little positive movement in any companies profits...How can the free market or doing nothing,correct a problem that is totally based on credit based spending to maintain itself...How do you purpose that doing nothing will not dig the hole deeper?....Many folks are in such a bind that they are selling off thier remaing stock,this creating an even deeper finiacial hole...At this point even those who are trying to dollar cost average thier stocks May never see the returns they are hoping for in years to come..In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....
From BusinessWeek.com
Timothy Geithner unveiled the government's revised financial-sector rescue plan on Tuesday, and investors turned an emphatic thumbs down on the eagerly awaited announcement from the Treasury Secretary. U.S. stocks plunged Tuesday, with the large-cap benchmark S&P 500 falling nearly 5% and the Dow industrials dropping below the psychologically significant 8,000 mark.
From MSNBC Business
Stocks slide, Dow ends at lowest in 6 years
NEW YORK - An important psychological barrier gave way on Wall Street Thursday as the Dow Jones industrials fell to their lowest level in more than six years.

The Dow broke through a bottom reached in November, pulled down by sharp declines in key financial shares. It was the lowest ending for the Dow since Oct. 9, 2002, when the last bear market bottomed out.

The move below that level dashed hopes that the doldrums of November would mark the ending point of a long slump in the market, which is now nearly halfway below the peak levels reached in October 2007.

The market's inability to rally also signals that investors see no immediate end for the recession, which is already 14 months old and one of the most severe in decades. Investors also haven't been impressed with two major economic initiatives from the Obama administration this week, an economic stimulus package and a mortgage relief plan.

Now tell me how Obama's stimulus plan and Geithners Non Plan didn't affect the DOW. :roll:
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?


Honestly, we need both types of spending.

Remember right after 9-11 when Bush basically said, " We've got this.....ya'll just go out and go shopping".....well that's really what we need to do now.

That statement is prob. the one and only thing I'll ever agree with that he said.....
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?


Honestly, we need both types of spending.

Remember right after 9-11 when Bush basically said, " We've got this.....ya'll just go out and go shopping".....well that's really what we need to do now.

That statement is prob. the one and only thing I'll ever agree with that he said.....


Hold the phones I agree with Kola. :eek: :D

If the stimulus package had given significant tax cuts to working people they would have spent that money. I am confident they would have spent it more wisely then the federal government even.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?

Without goverment spending you wont get consumer spending....

With out credit there will be no spending unless wages increase,which they wont or prices for everything drop across the board,which also wont happen.....Until the banks start giving credit nothing positive can happen..tax credits only help those who are working.more and more working people are collection goverment checks...Talk about tax credits all you want but that only helps those that have.If nothing is done but just tax credits,then hoarding will be all that is created. ...It is not the taxes that burried people,it was, as I said earlier,years of wages not increasing which in turn caused people and business's to fall deeper into debt..This is the time for the governments to invest in thier countries infrastructure and energy based solutions...To sit back and do nothing and think the market will correct itself is foolish... Do not kid yoursels,Big corporations will die,but they will be replaced by the entrepreneur attitude of north Americans building or creating less expensive ways to live..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?

Without any jobs and credit money the consumers aren't going to be spending- and the Fatcat Banker/Lenders that have got the majority of the Bush/Paulson unresricted TARP money up to now have shown what they think of investing in the US economy by paying it out in huge salaries, bonus's, golden parachutes, new airliners for the CEO's, parties for their management folks, and integration- sitting on their wealth rather than put it out as loans like it was supposed to do.....

Like Kola says--The thing now is to get money in the hands of people that will spend it- not those that set on it and wait for the investor market to improve...
Money needs to get moving again...
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
nonothing said:
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?

Without goverment spending you wont get consumer spending....

With out credit there will be no spending unless wages increase,which they wont or prices for everything drop across the board,which also wont happen.....Until the banks start giving credit nothing positive can happen..tax credits only help those who are working.more and more working people are collection goverment checks...Talk about tax credits all you want but that only helps those that have.If nothing is done but just tax credits,then hoarding will be all that is created. ...It is not the taxes that burried people,it was, as I said earlier,years of wages not increasing which in turn caused people and business's to fall deeper into debt..This is the time for the governments to invest in thier countries infrastructure and energy based solutions...To sit back and do nothing and think the market will correct itself is foolish... Do not kid yoursels,Big corporations will die,but they will be replaced by the entrepreneur attitude of north Americans building or creating less expensive ways to live..

Government spending takes away from consumer spending! Where does the government get it's money? FROM CONSUMERS! How can a consumer spend money when they have to give their money to the government?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
nonothing said:
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?

Without goverment spending you wont get consumer spending....

With out credit there will be no spending unless wages increase,which they wont or prices for everything drop across the board,which also wont happen.....Until the banks start giving credit nothing positive can happen..tax credits only help those who are working.more and more working people are collection goverment checks...Talk about tax credits all you want but that only helps those that have.If nothing is done but just tax credits,then hoarding will be all that is created. ...It is not the taxes that burried people,it was, as I said earlier,years of wages not increasing which in turn caused people and business's to fall deeper into debt..This is the time for the governments to invest in thier countries infrastructure and energy based solutions...To sit back and do nothing and think the market will correct itself is foolish... Do not kid yoursels,Big corporations will die,but they will be replaced by the entrepreneur attitude of north Americans building or creating less expensive ways to live..

I feel sorry for you nonothing, sad that you can not spend money with out having to borrow to do it. I see why you are so liberal now, you need government to get you what you want because you have not figured out how to do it yourself.

I am also sad that your wages have not grown over the years, EVERYONE I know is making more money today than say they were 5 or 10 years ago.

And to say the government has to spend before a consumer can spend is ridiculous. I do not need the Government to buy 600 million dollars worth of Converter boxes so I can go eat Pizza with my family! What are you smoking up there? :roll:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Like Kola says--The thing now is to get money in the hands of people that will spend it- not those that set on it and wait for the investor market to improve...
Money needs to get moving again...

Then why not give a 5% tax break to the lower 2 tax brackets as I said? These are not people in tax brackets that sit on money waiting for the market. They are people going to wal-mart and McDonalds.

Why is it that buying a 600 million in converter boxes from China will stimulate the economy more than giving 300 million working men and women more money each week in their checks, starting in one week from the day Obama would sign it?

Why is it that a water park out east, would do more good than every working man spreading the money in small amounts through out the entire economy?
 

nonothing

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
nonothing said:
Faster horses said:
In fact as sad as it is to say but spending may be the only way to avoid total collapsse and bring the corrected market into the future.....


What spending do you mean? Consumer spending or Government spending?

Without goverment spending you wont get consumer spending....

With out credit there will be no spending unless wages increase,which they wont or prices for everything drop across the board,which also wont happen.....Until the banks start giving credit nothing positive can happen..tax credits only help those who are working.more and more working people are collection goverment checks...Talk about tax credits all you want but that only helps those that have.If nothing is done but just tax credits,then hoarding will be all that is created. ...It is not the taxes that burried people,it was, as I said earlier,years of wages not increasing which in turn caused people and business's to fall deeper into debt..This is the time for the governments to invest in thier countries infrastructure and energy based solutions...To sit back and do nothing and think the market will correct itself is foolish... Do not kid yoursels,Big corporations will die,but they will be replaced by the entrepreneur attitude of north Americans building or creating less expensive ways to live..

I feel sorry for you nonothing, sad that you can not spend money with out having to borrow to do it. I see why you are so liberal now, you need government to get you what you want because you have not figured out how to do it yourself.

I am also sad that your wages have not grown over the years, EVERYONE I know is making more money today than say they were 5 or 10 years ago.

And to say the government has to spend before a consumer can spend is ridiculous. I do not need the Government to buy 600 million dollars worth of Converter boxes so I can go eat Pizza with my family! What are you smoking up there? :roll:

Well most people are not as lucky or disiplne as you are....Most have to borrow to buy homes and safe cars for thier families..Many students need to borrow to educate themself's...Many American families had to borrow against their homes just to pay out landish medical bills....this will suck for you to hear Aplus,but am not in a spot that I need to borrow...but many folks are.I suspect you owe money somewhere unless your mommy gave you some..Accaully that is not fair of me to make such a statement.maybe you have worked hard you whole life and that your hard work has paid off in folds....I have no clue about your finiances other then you do not seem to spend on much rather then pizza,but be warned pizza can put on the pounds so go easy ... :roll:

If there is no goverment spending those that could work cant and therefore take away money from the goverment though unemployment and welfare..You need better infrastructure,the goverment builds infrastruture,so why not spend the money on putting people to work rather then pay them to stay home....You think this economic crash can turn itself around on its own....show us how.Tell me how doing absolutly nothing will stimulate any economic growth.....If your plan of spending nothing is viable I think you should propose it to your leaders...A fiscal genuis like you is definatly needed world wide...Plese show us the plan about nothing Aplus.... :roll:
 
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