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E.P.D Correlation

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
What do you think would give you more practical daughters a bull with a 15 milk epd and a -5 Enery epd or a bull that is plus 25 for milk that has a positive EN epd. The plus energy cattle theoretically should be easier doing but a milk epd over 20 sure gives me pause. The highnumber milk and growth bulls sure throw impressive bull calves but the maintenance costs on their daughters makes me wonder.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
I have had EPD's explained to me many times but I still wonder. :roll:

Looking at a sale catalog one bull is recomended for hfrs with a 77lb BW and a BW of 4.9
Another bull is 81 BW with a 3 BW and he's not recommended.
 

sic 'em reds

Well-known member
It's anybody's guess anymore?

I would prefer a top of +20 on milk epd, but are there any real bulls with that epd, according to Ai companies?

For example, the funny thing around here is everyone wants to use Emblazon and other OCC bloodlines for fleshing ability, but alot of the OCC bulls, what I should say is OCC sired bulls, in stud catalogs are negative for $EN???? They're great broody, moderate cows, but everyone is so worried about the $EN epd with the price of corn and fuel!!!!!!
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
BMR I've learned long ago to look at the FAMILIES in the bulls pedigree.
You can't buy a bull with a 70 lb. bw and expect him to work on heifers, if the average out of that sire (or dam) is 90 lbs. You are safer with a 90 lb. bw bull when the averages out of that line of cattle is 70 lbs.
Rainmaker 340 was this kind of bull. As you know, he was a great heifer bull, but he, himself had a 90 lb. birthweight.

I have no idea where some of the bull raisers get their idea of what they promote as a heifer bull. I sure don't agree with some of them. We've been real fortunate using the families as a guideline on heifer bulls. It has always worked.

Bill Ohrmann, Drimmond, Mt. taught me about that many moons ago and I have found him to be dead right.

The heifer bulls used on the yearlings now (and for the past 2 years) are Wye bred from Rick Hanson, Froid, Mt. and they are sleep all night heifer bulls. Hate to give them up.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I agree FH that a lot of it comes from the cow herd..My son is going down to the Cole Creek sale Monday to look at the heifers they have- and one of the things that caught my eye on them was the fact out of the 25 they are selling the highest birthweight is 82 lbs with most being around 70....

Sic em Reds- If your looking for a moderate sized AI bull with a high EN$ that is supposed to be a cow maker----you might want to look at N Bar Prime Time... +18 on milk-- +$28 on EN-- a -1.2 Stature-- -1.7 BW and a +14 for CED...
I was a little leery of him because of 3 generations back he is double bred EXT- but then when AAA came out with docility ratings that put him in their higher rankings for docility- I decided to take a chance on him...I think I'll use him on the heifers this spring...
 

Silver

Well-known member
I guess Im old fashioned, but I'd rather go to the bulls home, look at the cows and the operation, and make my decisions based on that. It can be especially handy to show up there right smack in the middle of calving too. :wink:
 

WB

Well-known member
I believe in EPDs but the dollar indexes are not that useful if you can add and subtract. I am a lot more interested in what they look like and what their progeny will look like. If you are really interested in keeping milk production controlled you might want to stay away from the higher weaning indexing bulls.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
OT, I like the Prime Time bull. In fact, there were a few years there where that is the only ABS bull that I did like. Too much carcass and no maternal in the Angus part of that stud book.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
I'm not an epd believer but why would you believe that the EN numbers are wrong but the milk numbers are right? Is the accuracy way higher on the bulls milk number?
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
maybe somebody try to explaine this one to me.
this is directly out of a upcoming bull sale catalogue.
these two calves are full brothers-- embryo transfer
born two days apart.
of course identical epd's

birth weight epd-- +2.8 weaning weight epd +44

one weighed 78 at birth the other 97 --- 19 pound difference

one weaned 615 the other 696-- 81 pound difference.

other than recipiennt cow I don't know what other variables could be involved.

what, if anything, can we derive from this information??
 

Blkbuckaroo

Well-known member
Lonecowboy said:
maybe somebody try to explaine this one to me.
this is directly out of a upcoming bull sale catalogue.
these two calves are full brothers-- embryo transfer
born two days apart.
of course identical epd's

birth weight epd-- +2.8 weaning weight epd +44

one weighed 78 at birth the other 97 --- 19 pound difference

one weaned 615 the other 696-- 81 pound difference.

other than recipiennt cow I don't know what other variables could be involved.

what, if anything, can we derive from this information??
Wow!LC that's really interesting,i can't answer,but i'm certainly interested to see who can?!
 

BRG

Well-known member
I would say a few things could have happened. First, the recip cows could have been different breeds, 1 could have been a 1200 lbs Angus while the other a 1600 lbs Simi. Or they could have come from 2 different recip herds, where one herd was out getting fed prairie hay while the other was getting corn silage before calving. We have this happen quite often. But also take a look at my family. I am 5'8 160lbs, my brother is 6/1 220lbs. Just because they are full brothers doesn't mean they will be the same.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
I suggested to my boss that maybe we needed a 'thrifty' division in the catalogue. I retain ownership of most allmy calves but quite frankly I don't pay much attention to the carcass data-I still think your money is made and lost on your cowherd not on the last dash her steer calf makes to the finish line.
 

sic 'em reds

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I agree FH that a lot of it comes from the cow herd..My son is going down to the Cole Creek sale Monday to look at the heifers they have- and one of the things that caught my eye on them was the fact out of the 25 they are selling the highest birthweight is 82 lbs with most being around 70....

Sic em Reds- If your looking for a moderate sized AI bull with a high EN$ that is supposed to be a cow maker----you might want to look at N Bar Prime Time... +18 on milk-- +$28 on EN-- a -1.2 Stature-- -1.7 BW and a +14 for CED...
I was a little leery of him because of 3 generations back he is double bred EXT- but then when AAA came out with docility ratings that put him in their higher rankings for docility- I decided to take a chance on him...I think I'll use him on the heifers this spring...

I haven't used him Oldtimer, but I am using Net Present Value who is a son of NBPT D806. They are good calves so far.
 
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