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Econ 101 and Beefman on Grading

cedardell

Well-known member
What I'm trying to say is that unless a packer pays for a USDA inspector he can not claim a USDA grade. If he does pay for the inspection the grade stamp will be on the paclkage. Therefore, it is against USDA rules to sell meat without a grade stamp on the package implying that is has a USDA grade. I didn't say Sam's didn't sell choice beef. I said that they can't claim it is choice unless it has a grade stamp on the package. This is a huge issue, because if the rules are not followed packing plants all over the world can sell meat in the US and claim it is of equal quality as our USDA grades. And it may or may not be. You guys that like to argue just to punch the keyboard had better read the rules and think about it.
 

Beefman

Well-known member
cedardell said:
What I'm trying to say is that unless a packer pays for a USDA inspector he can not claim a USDA grade. If he does pay for the inspection the grade stamp will be on the paclkage. Therefore, it is against USDA rules to sell meat without a grade stamp on the package implying that is has a USDA grade. I didn't say Sam's didn't sell choice beef. I said that they can't claim it is choice unless it has a grade stamp on the package. This is a huge issue, because if the rules are not followed packing plants all over the world can sell meat in the US and claim it is of equal quality as our USDA grades. And it may or may not be. You guys that like to argue just to punch the keyboard had better read the rules and think about it.

Inspection and grading are two different things. Even the beef you haul into the local locker plant is inspected for health and wholesomeness. If a USDA inspector that travels to the various locker plants finds a problem with a finished animal, they have the authority to tank it. You most likely do no pay extra to get your home raised beef quality graded. Again, grading and inspection are two separate issues USDA oversees.

As stated in the previous thread, if it's labeled and promoted as Choice, it came out of a box / primal that the USDA GRADER marked as such. It's a waste of time to assume otherwise.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Beefman, you are not correct...a local custom processor has his plant inspected by state inspectors(which are most times actually USDA inspectors), but each animal is not inspected. But the meat he processes is not for resale and has to be labeled as such. State inspected labeled meat has each carcass inspected by a state inspector (and labeled as such), but is not able to be sold across state lines. USDA inspected and labeled meat can be sold across state lines.

Grading is voluntary and to claim "USDA Choice" it must be graded and the carcass stamped by a FSIS inspector, just as cedardell has said. If a box of beef is labeled as USDA Choice, I don't know if it has to say "USDA Choice" if repackaged. I think the issue is FSIS allowing SAM's to claim "choice" instead of "USDA Choice" on the beef that is USDA Choice equivalent????
 

agman

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Beefman, you are not correct...a local custom processor has his plant inspected by state inspectors(which are most times actually USDA inspectors), but each animal is not inspected. But the meat he processes is not for resale and has to be labeled as such. State inspected labeled meat has each carcass inspected by a state inspector (and labeled as such), but is not able to be sold across state lines. USDA inspected and labeled meat can be sold across state lines.

Grading is voluntary and to claim "USDA Choice" it must be graded and the carcass stamped by a FSIS inspector, just as cedardell has said. If a box of beef is labeled as USDA Choice, I don't know if it has to say "USDA Choice" if repackaged. I think the issue is FSIS allowing SAM's to claim "choice" instead of "USDA Choice" on the beef that is USDA Choice equivalent????

Sam's does not CLAIM "choice" RM. Where do you dream up this nonsense. The product is determined to be "choice" at processing by the USDA grader, not SAm's. It is advertised as "choice" whci it is.
 

agman

Well-known member
agman said:
RobertMac said:
Beefman, you are not correct...a local custom processor has his plant inspected by state inspectors(which are most times actually USDA inspectors), but each animal is not inspected. But the meat he processes is not for resale and has to be labeled as such. State inspected labeled meat has each carcass inspected by a state inspector (and labeled as such), but is not able to be sold across state lines. USDA inspected and labeled meat can be sold across state lines.

Grading is voluntary and to claim "USDA Choice" it must be graded and the carcass stamped by a FSIS inspector, just as cedardell has said. If a box of beef is labeled as USDA Choice, I don't know if it has to say "USDA Choice" if repackaged. I think the issue is FSIS allowing SAM's to claim "choice" instead of "USDA Choice" on the beef that is USDA Choice equivalent????

Sam's does not CLAIM "choice" RM. Where do you dream up this nonsense. The product is determined to be "choice" at processing by the USDA grader, not SAm's. It is advertised as "choice" which it is. It enters the store from the packer in boxed form labeled as USDA "choice".
 

Econ101

Well-known member
agman said:
agman said:
RobertMac said:
Beefman, you are not correct...a local custom processor has his plant inspected by state inspectors(which are most times actually USDA inspectors), but each animal is not inspected. But the meat he processes is not for resale and has to be labeled as such. State inspected labeled meat has each carcass inspected by a state inspector (and labeled as such), but is not able to be sold across state lines. USDA inspected and labeled meat can be sold across state lines.

Grading is voluntary and to claim "USDA Choice" it must be graded and the carcass stamped by a FSIS inspector, just as cedardell has said. If a box of beef is labeled as USDA Choice, I don't know if it has to say "USDA Choice" if repackaged. I think the issue is FSIS allowing SAM's to claim "choice" instead of "USDA Choice" on the beef that is USDA Choice equivalent????

Sam's does not CLAIM "choice" RM. Where do you dream up this nonsense. The product is determined to be "choice" at processing by the USDA grader, not SAm's. It is advertised as "choice" which it is. It enters the store from the packer in boxed form labeled as USDA "choice".

Agman, Sam's store is not my argument, however, if we have the same goofy full of holes system for Walmart as Sam's (owned by same) and some of the same suppliers, there is an issue with the validity of Sam's statement of calling their meat "USDA Choice" also.

Once the integrity of the system is in question, it pervades the industry. It is like consumer confidence. Does the boardroom at Sam's not allow the fraud but the boardroom of Walmart does?

What about the USDA? Do they have different standards of enforcement?
 

PORKER

Well-known member
Sam's store is not my argument, however, if we have the same goofy full of holes system for Walmart as Sam's (owned by same) and some of the same suppliers, there is an issue with the validity of Sam's statement of calling their meat "USDA Choice" also.


this should be enforced........
 

cedardell

Well-known member
If a box of meat carries an official USDA stamp that stamp should be carried along each time the meat is repackaged. If it is not carried to the package in the meat case then the whole system is a wash and a huge waist of money to the packers and a waist of time for consumers. Then the retailer might as well give it his own name and sell it as branded beef and rely on his own reputation which I think is what Walmart does and the employees are correct in calling it "grade A beef." There is no problem with that unless they say USDA grade A, because there is no USDA grade A. But repackaging meat brings up a whole new issue which I will address in a new post.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Throwing a little more confusion into this 'argument'.......Agman or Beefman, could you tell us if that so called "Grade A" is likely to be the MATURITY grade?

I know that cows older than....what?....24?....or 30 months of age are supposed to be called B Maturity. No more guys snudging on the age of their "heiferettes" after that went into effect.

Actually wasn't that a large part of the driving force behind getting R-CALF started? Guys who had traditionally sold their just a little older, maybe, "heiferettes" as "hiefers" were really, really angry at the members of NCBA who wanted differentiation between those "hieferettes" (at ages two or more years of age) and our one to two year old hiefers.

So, I'm asking, if there's a classification re. age of a female animal as "B" Maturity, is there also another classification of younger female cattle as "A" Maturity? Is that where the confusion over the aforementioned "Grade A" beef could arise from? And to clear up the difference between "B" Maturity and "Non-B" Maturity. Please.

MRJ
 

agman

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
agman said:
agman said:
Sam's does not CLAIM "choice" RM. Where do you dream up this nonsense. The product is determined to be "choice" at processing by the USDA grader, not SAm's. It is advertised as "choice" which it is. It enters the store from the packer in boxed form labeled as USDA "choice".

Agman, Sam's store is not my argument, however, if we have the same goofy full of holes system for Walmart as Sam's (owned by same) and some of the same suppliers, there is an issue with the validity of Sam's statement of calling their meat "USDA Choice" also.

Once the integrity of the system is in question, it pervades the industry. It is like consumer confidence. Does the boardroom at Sam's not allow the fraud but the boardroom of Walmart does?

What about the USDA? Do they have different standards of enforcement?

What is wrong to identify their meat as USDA choice when it is grade as such by USDA graders? The only goofy holes are in the stream of misinformation that you deal in constantly.

Wal-Mart does NOT identify their meat as Choice, which it is not. What a fairy tale world you live in.
 

agman

Well-known member
MRJ said:
Throwing a little more confusion into this 'argument'.......Agman or Beefman, could you tell us if that so called "Grade A" is likely to be the MATURITY grade?

I know that cows older than....what?....24?....or 30 months of age are supposed to be called B Maturity. No more guys snudging on the age of their "heiferettes" after that went into effect.

Actually wasn't that a large part of the driving force behind getting R-CALF started? Guys who had traditionally sold their just a little older, maybe, "heiferettes" as "hiefers" were really, really angry at the members of NCBA who wanted differentiation between those "hieferettes" (at ages two or more years of age) and our one to two year old hiefers.

So, I'm asking, if there's a classification re. age of a female animal as "B" Maturity, is there also another classification of younger female cattle as "A" Maturity? Is that where the confusion over the aforementioned "Grade A" beef could arise from? And to clear up the difference between "B" Maturity and "Non-B" Maturity. Please.

MRJ

Grade A would be a maturity grade however I have never seen nor heard that used to identify meat in either Wal-Mart, Sam's or by any of their suppliers. I would be surprised if that is not part of their choice or select specification, including grade A maturity, from their suppliers.

You are also correct in that those most opposed to marketing agreements and formula sales were those who never fed any cattle or who fed older maturity cattle. Upgrading junk cattle was the name of the game for some who were feeding. When they got trapped they had to blame others for the problem they caused-sounds very typical does it not?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
agman said:
Econ101 said:

Agman, Sam's store is not my argument, however, if we have the same goofy full of holes system for Walmart as Sam's (owned by same) and some of the same suppliers, there is an issue with the validity of Sam's statement of calling their meat "USDA Choice" also.

Once the integrity of the system is in question, it pervades the industry. It is like consumer confidence. Does the boardroom at Sam's not allow the fraud but the boardroom of Walmart does?

What about the USDA? Do they have different standards of enforcement?

What is wrong to identify their meat as USDA choice when it is grade as such by USDA graders? The only goofy holes are in the stream of misinformation that you deal in constantly.

Wal-Mart does NOT identify their meat as Choice, which it is not. What a fairy tale world you live in.

Well, Agman, are you the liar or are the store employees at Walmart lying?

Walmart employee underlings identified, when asked, their meat as being USDA Grade A meat. There is no such grading system. There is a classification of maturity for A but no grade.

When pressed and they called the over all meat manager, his the reply relayed on the phone (the guy was on the phone talking to the overall meat case manager---or so he said) was that the meat was USDA Grade A meat, when pressed further and I told him that wasn't a grade, the answer was relayed that it was USDA Choice. Now either you are not correct about Walmart selling the meat that is in the meat case as choice when it is really Select, and the lady on the phone with the toll free number is lying about the meat from Tyson being Select, or the store employees and the store manager are misrepresenting the USDA grade at the store.

Which one is it?

Of course we know that USDA inspectors will probably never catch this fraud because they have to identify themselves before asking these questions at the meat counter. They are not allowed to ask any questions without identifying themselves. Only the dumbest Walmart managers would mess that question up after the inspector identified himself.

In addition to that hurdle for good enforcement, the meat inspectors are not allowed to give ANY penalty. That comes under different authority of misrepresentation of food items codes in the stores.

The beef side of this industry has made sure that they are insulated from the frauds they are involved with in the industry by little or no government enforcement from the USDA.

Is there a reason the meat inspectors don't do their job adequately? Go ask the meat interviewer whose interview I posted on the this forum. The USDA is doing EVERYTHING it can to not enforce the law against packers.


It is a total shame.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
agman said:
MRJ said:
Throwing a little more confusion into this 'argument'.......Agman or Beefman, could you tell us if that so called "Grade A" is likely to be the MATURITY grade?

I know that cows older than....what?....24?....or 30 months of age are supposed to be called B Maturity. No more guys snudging on the age of their "heiferettes" after that went into effect.

Actually wasn't that a large part of the driving force behind getting R-CALF started? Guys who had traditionally sold their just a little older, maybe, "heiferettes" as "hiefers" were really, really angry at the members of NCBA who wanted differentiation between those "hieferettes" (at ages two or more years of age) and our one to two year old hiefers.

So, I'm asking, if there's a classification re. age of a female animal as "B" Maturity, is there also another classification of younger female cattle as "A" Maturity? Is that where the confusion over the aforementioned "Grade A" beef could arise from? And to clear up the difference between "B" Maturity and "Non-B" Maturity. Please.

MRJ

Grade A would be a maturity grade however I have never seen nor heard that used to identify meat in either Wal-Mart, Sam's or by any of their suppliers. I would be surprised if that is not part of their choice or select specification, including grade A maturity, from their suppliers.

You are also correct in that those most opposed to marketing agreements and formula sales were those who never fed any cattle or who fed older maturity cattle. Upgrading junk cattle was the name of the game for some who were feeding. When they got trapped they had to blame others for the problem they caused-sounds very typical does it not?

So packers can enforce quality standards on producers because they have the buying power, but USDA can not enforce quality truthfullness because THEY ARE A CAPTIVE AGENCY.

It is not blaming, Agman, it is just what is happening.

Even a "barrister attorney" could prove that one.

All tort reform is doing is permitting the crooked attorneys in the system that represent crooked actions by large corporations to have the upper hand in our "justice system".
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
agman said:
RobertMac said:
Beefman, you are not correct...a local custom processor has his plant inspected by state inspectors(which are most times actually USDA inspectors), but each animal is not inspected. But the meat he processes is not for resale and has to be labeled as such. State inspected labeled meat has each carcass inspected by a state inspector (and labeled as such), but is not able to be sold across state lines. USDA inspected and labeled meat can be sold across state lines.

Grading is voluntary and to claim "USDA Choice" it must be graded and the carcass stamped by a FSIS inspector, just as cedardell has said. If a box of beef is labeled as USDA Choice, I don't know if it has to say "USDA Choice" if repackaged. I think the issue is FSIS allowing SAM's to claim "choice" instead of "USDA Choice" on the beef that is USDA Choice equivalent????

Sam's does not CLAIM "choice" RM. Where do you dream up this nonsense. The product is determined to be "choice" at processing by the USDA grader, not SAm's. It is advertised as "choice" whci it is.

Agman, I don't buy meat from Sam's, Wal-Mart, or any other chain store. I get MY beef out of my freezer, I buy pork and poultry from fellow producers...doing anything else would be hypocritical. All I was trying to learn was the beef Sam's sells graded and stamped by FSIS inspectors! Thank you for your answer. I'm assuming Wal-Mart's beef is not graded by FSIS inspectors...why would they and am I wrong on that also?

As for my "complaining",over the last quarter century...

beef has lost market share

total production/consumption has been flat while imports have increased displacing USA production(with imports being sold as perceived USA product)

USA cattle herd numbers are at 1950s levels(declining while countries importing into the USA have increased)

total number of USA producers has declined

The producer's share of the consumer's dollar has declined(while input cost have increased)

I seem to have lost my rose colored glasses, but I'm sure you can spin this into poor producer management. When beef starts taking market share from chicken, I'll stop complaining...I'm sure Tyson is doing all they can to make that happen!
 

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