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Economy- New Poll

Do You think the US Economy is Heading into or in a Recession--or a Depression?

  • No-the Economy is doing Fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a mild short Recession

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a prolonged Recession/Depression

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Economic Collapse

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I told you a dozen times before (but like a true neocon- you have selective memory :roll: ) - its too late for NOW-- we needed a comprehensive (oil, coal, wind, nuke, ethynol, solar, etc.) energy package- and leadership in developing it, 7-8-10 years ago instead of the Cheney backroom deal with the oil execs....

You really didn't/don't expect oil execs to come up with a energy solution, when it would mean they would possibly have to give up years of record profitteering- do you :???:

Do you really believe the oil companies are going to put out R&D money to develop enviromentally safe uses for coal (which this country has enough of to power the country for 1000 years)...... :???:

You have the luxury of hind sight to tell what you would have done, 8 years ago to keep us from having oil and gas prices of today???? Go ahead tell us what Bush should have done to stop these high prices today.

The fact is the President has a lot less to do with the price of oil and gas as you give him credit for. Countries like China are trying to make back room deals and grab up all the oil they can because the demand to supply ratio is dropping every year.

You try to over simplify things by blaming one man, when it is the millions of people world wide that dictate oil consumption. This oil crunch began many many years before Bush ever took office.

Just look at the growth of the U.S. in the last 10 to 20 years. And then look at the world population growth, then look at countries like China and India becoming industrialized. You simplify the problem and do not evaluate it fairly.

You are a broken record that has no answers or suggestions, just Bush criticizing, I imagine you will be a lonely old man once Bush is gone, nothing to complain about. O Wait you are already setting your future bitching in place by bashing McCain, your negativity will live on :roll:

As for oil companies researching coal usage, I doubt the will, they are OIL companies. It is not their responsibility to provide us with clean burning coal. It is their job to find oil and sell it for a profit so that their stock holders make money. They do not owe anyone anything except their stock holders. Quit bitching and buy stock in them.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
wages are now the lowest, in terms of buying power, in modern history.

But yet we continue to have and do more than ever in the history of America :shock:

You can be a doom and gloom person all you want, but the truth surrounds us all, just look at the nice cars, nice homes, clothes, TV's, Computers, Boats, Satellites in home and cars, Check out the lines to get into a nice restaurant, check out the line to get a Big Mac at the drive thru. :shock:

Americans are blessed and prosperous people. Get off the couch and you can be one of them also! :wink:
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
I told you a dozen times before (but like a true neocon- you have selective memory :roll: ) - its too late for NOW-- we needed a comprehensive (oil, coal, wind, nuke, ethynol, solar, etc.) energy package- and leadership in developing it, 7-8-10 years ago instead of the Cheney backroom deal with the oil execs....

You really didn't/don't expect oil execs to come up with a energy solution, when it would mean they would possibly have to give up years of record profitteering- do you :???:

Do you really believe the oil companies are going to put out R&D money to develop enviromentally safe uses for coal (which this country has enough of to power the country for 1000 years)...... :???:

You have the luxury of hind sight to tell what you would have done, 8 years ago to keep us from having oil and gas prices of today???? Go ahead tell us what Bush should have done to stop these high prices today.

The fact is the President has a lot less to do with the price of oil and gas as you give him credit for. Countries like China are trying to make back room deals and grab up all the oil they can because the demand to supply ratio is dropping every year.

You try to over simplify things by blaming one man, when it is the millions of people world wide that dictate oil consumption. This oil crunch began many many years before Bush ever took office.

Just look at the growth of the U.S. in the last 10 to 20 years. And then look at the world population growth, then look at countries like China and India becoming industrialized. You simplify the problem and do not evaluate it fairly.

You are a broken record that has no answers or suggestions, just Bush criticizing, I imagine you will be a lonely old man once Bush is gone, nothing to complain about. O Wait you are already setting your future bitching in place by bashing McCain, your negativity will live on :roll:

As for oil companies researching coal usage, I doubt the will, they are OIL companies. It is not their responsibility to provide us with clean burning coal. It is their job to find oil and sell it for a profit so that their stock holders make money. They do not owe anyone anything except their stock holders. Quit bitching and buy stock in them.

No they don't owe anyone anything except their stockholders and evidently their upper echelon of personnel judging from the amounts they take with them when they leave. But that is precisely why I don't think the working man/taxpayer owes them any tax breaks either. Do you feel like you owe part of your salary via tax breaks to the oil companies?? A yes or no will do. And Again do you think the energy policy of the US should have been negotiated transparently for all to see. Something just doesn't seem right-common sense tells you that. I have some stock in them but just because you have stock in them-does that give you any power? No but its like voting, it does give you a right to complain, I believe.
I mean if the president/this administration has little to do with the price of oil lets make the meeting between Cheney and the oil exec's public like it should have been in the first place, you agree?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
I told you a dozen times before (but like a true neocon- you have selective memory :roll: ) - its too late for NOW-- we needed a comprehensive (oil, coal, wind, nuke, ethynol, solar, etc.) energy package- and leadership in developing it, 7-8-10 years ago instead of the Cheney backroom deal with the oil execs....

You really didn't/don't expect oil execs to come up with a energy solution, when it would mean they would possibly have to give up years of record profitteering- do you :???:

Do you really believe the oil companies are going to put out R&D money to develop enviromentally safe uses for coal (which this country has enough of to power the country for 1000 years)...... :???:

You have the luxury of hind sight to tell what you would have done, 8 years ago to keep us from having oil and gas prices of today???? Go ahead tell us what Bush should have done to stop these high prices today.

The fact is the President has a lot less to do with the price of oil and gas as you give him credit for. Countries like China are trying to make back room deals and grab up all the oil they can because the demand to supply ratio is dropping every year.

You try to over simplify things by blaming one man, when it is the millions of people world wide that dictate oil consumption. This oil crunch began many many years before Bush ever took office.

Just look at the growth of the U.S. in the last 10 to 20 years. And then look at the world population growth, then look at countries like China and India becoming industrialized. You simplify the problem and do not evaluate it fairly.

You are a broken record that has no answers or suggestions, just Bush criticizing, I imagine you will be a lonely old man once Bush is gone, nothing to complain about. O Wait you are already setting your future bitching in place by bashing McCain, your negativity will live on :roll:

As for oil companies researching coal usage, I doubt the will, they are OIL companies. It is not their responsibility to provide us with clean burning coal. It is their job to find oil and sell it for a profit so that their stock holders make money. They do not owe anyone anything except their stock holders. Quit bitching and buy stock in them.

No they don't owe anyone anything except their stockholders and evidently their upper echelon of personnel judging from the amounts they take with them when they leave. But that is precisely why I don't think the working man/taxpayer owes them any tax breaks either. Do you feel like you owe part of your salary via tax breaks to the oil companies?? A yes or no will do. And Again do you think the energy policy of the US should have been negotiated transparently for all to see. Something just doesn't seem right-common sense tells you that. I have some stock in them but just because you have stock in them-does that give you any power? No but its like voting, it does give you a right to complain, I believe.
I mean if the president/this administration has little to do with the price of oil lets make the meeting between Cheney and the oil exec's public like it should have been in the first place, you agree?

Yea I agree, as far as I know I see no reason that Cheney's meeting should not be public knowledge. I will point out you are slanting to make it sound like he met only with oil executives but there was a lot more present them from what I understand.

And no I do not believe in Subsidies rather they go to Oil executives, farmers or ranchers.

I think cities and states giving tax breaks to lure business is just plain smart business. But I do not believe in giving federal tax breaks to any business for any reason. You libs general pick and choose which ones you agree to give, I am against them all!

I am especially against giving tax breaks to alternative fuel such as ethanol. I say take them all away.

When gas prices reach a price that people revolt and will not pay it, then prices will go down or car manufacturers will be off to the races to find an alternative fuel source such as battery power.

Some times the free market has to hit rock bottom before consumers demand an alternative. I say screw the government, they have solved way less than they hurt since the invention of the political process. Necessity is the mother of invention, not Obama, Clinton or McCain.

Just keep things in perspective and know who to blame, nothing Cheney could have done in that meeting you are so scared of could have curved the demand we have for oil, due to population growth, and the demand China and India now have that they once did not have.

I will put blame where blame deserves, not buy into some conspiracy theory just because I am anti Bush, and yes I am an anti Bush person, just not an Anti war on terrorist person. Besides the War on Terrorist including the war in Iraq and No child left behind, there is very few things I like about Bush.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A + - Bushaholic
You have the luxury of hind sight to tell what you would have done, 8 years ago to keep us from having oil and gas prices of today???? Go ahead tell us what Bush should have done to stop these high prices today.

Leaders are elected to lead- and to put together advisors and policy that PROACT to whats happening in the country and the world for the best of the ENTIRE country, not just their buddies- and not to go into secret meetings with the Oil Executives (which they refuse to disclose even happened- or who with-- and of which the oil execs that were proven to be there refuse to admit they were- let alone forget what was discussed) :???:

I'm sure the oil execs (or GW and Cheney) won't have to cut back in their travels in their lear jets and limos- or tighten any belts in their family budgets with $4 and $5 gas.... Or any of the major Corporate Execs that GW has helped stuff the pockets of for the last 7 years :???:

But its time we get someone that thinks of America first and ALL Americans before their corporate buddies.......
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
But its time we get someone that thinks of America first and ALL Americans before their corporate buddies.......

You could always leave the profit for foreign corporations?

One question I have, is it costing more to extract energy now, than it did in the 70's when the US started to consume more than they were producing?

The days of poking a hole in the ground and have oil gush out, are done! It takes more technology and financing to get it out of the ground at present.

The only country left in the world with these gushing oil wells, is Iraq? How much is it costing you to gain control of that energy?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
But its time we get someone that thinks of America first and ALL Americans before their corporate buddies.......

You could always leave the profit for foreign corporations?

One question I have, is it costing more to extract energy now, than it did in the 70's when the US started to consume more than they were producing?

The days of poking a hole in the ground and have oil gush out, are done! It takes more technology and financing to get it out of the ground at present.

The only country left in the world with these gushing oil wells, is Iraq? How much is it costing you to gain control of that energy?

$2.3 Billion a week- which they are giving to the Iraqis while the US taxpayer pays for almost all the cost of running their country- which they are allowing the Iraqisw/oil companies to totally profiteer on .....

And thats not counting the 4,000+ that died so those oil companies could unchallengingly profiteer- or the Billions we should be paying in a GI Bill to those that already served that GW refuses to include as a war cost- prefering to just treat American GI's as oil company cannon fodder......

If only more of today's military personnel would realize that they are being used by the owning elite's as a publicly subsidized capitalist goon squad
-- Major General Smedley Butler

Why don't those damn oil companies fly their own flags on their personal property-maybe a flag with a gas pump on it.
-- Major General Smedley Butler

Personally- I'd rather see it spent toward developing enviromentally safe coal usage- and alternative energy sources for AMERICA-- while the Iraqis spend their own money in the banks ( estimated at $Billions- 200 Billion in US banks and growing by $70 Billion a year) building their schools, roads, bridges, etal and their Halliburton interests.... :shock:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
But its time we get someone that thinks of America first and ALL Americans before their corporate buddies.......

If you think you will ever find that person you are ignorant and naive! Politicians are what they are, always have been and always will be.

All you can do is hope that you find one that accidentally serves your beliefs while at the same time serving their own.

Example: Maybe you vote for a person that sells out to the NRA because they may accidently serve your desire to own guns.

Come on your old enough to realize this, quit being surprised by politicians selling out, it makes you look like a Green horn. :roll:
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
You have the luxury of hind sight to tell what you would have done, 8 years ago to keep us from having oil and gas prices of today???? Go ahead tell us what Bush should have done to stop these high prices today.

The fact is the President has a lot less to do with the price of oil and gas as you give him credit for. Countries like China are trying to make back room deals and grab up all the oil they can because the demand to supply ratio is dropping every year.

You try to over simplify things by blaming one man, when it is the millions of people world wide that dictate oil consumption. This oil crunch began many many years before Bush ever took office.

Just look at the growth of the U.S. in the last 10 to 20 years. And then look at the world population growth, then look at countries like China and India becoming industrialized. You simplify the problem and do not evaluate it fairly.

You are a broken record that has no answers or suggestions, just Bush criticizing, I imagine you will be a lonely old man once Bush is gone, nothing to complain about. O Wait you are already setting your future bitching in place by bashing McCain, your negativity will live on :roll:

As for oil companies researching coal usage, I doubt the will, they are OIL companies. It is not their responsibility to provide us with clean burning coal. It is their job to find oil and sell it for a profit so that their stock holders make money. They do not owe anyone anything except their stock holders. Quit bitching and buy stock in them.

No they don't owe anyone anything except their stockholders and evidently their upper echelon of personnel judging from the amounts they take with them when they leave. But that is precisely why I don't think the working man/taxpayer owes them any tax breaks either. Do you feel like you owe part of your salary via tax breaks to the oil companies?? A yes or no will do. And Again do you think the energy policy of the US should have been negotiated transparently for all to see. Something just doesn't seem right-common sense tells you that. I have some stock in them but just because you have stock in them-does that give you any power? No but its like voting, it does give you a right to complain, I believe.
I mean if the president/this administration has little to do with the price of oil lets make the meeting between Cheney and the oil exec's public like it should have been in the first place, you agree?

Yea I agree, as far as I know I see no reason that Cheney's meeting should not be public knowledge. I will point out you are slanting to make it sound like he met only with oil executives but there was a lot more present them from what I understand.

And no I do not believe in Subsidies rather they go to Oil executives, farmers or ranchers.

I think cities and states giving tax breaks to lure business is just plain smart business. But I do not believe in giving federal tax breaks to any business for any reason. You libs general pick and choose which ones you agree to give, I am against them all!

I am especially against giving tax breaks to alternative fuel such as ethanol. I say take them all away.

When gas prices reach a price that people revolt and will not pay it, then prices will go down or car manufacturers will be off to the races to find an alternative fuel source such as battery power.

Some times the free market has to hit rock bottom before consumers demand an alternative. I say screw the government, they have solved way less than they hurt since the invention of the political process. Necessity is the mother of invention, not Obama, Clinton or McCain.

Just keep things in perspective and know who to blame, nothing Cheney could have done in that meeting you are so scared of could have curved the demand we have for oil, due to population growth, and the demand China and India now have that they once did not have.

I will put blame where blame deserves, not buy into some conspiracy theory just because I am anti Bush, and yes I am an anti Bush person, just not an Anti war on terrorist person. Besides the War on Terrorist including the war in Iraq and No child left behind, there is very few things I like about Bush.

Aplus we could go on and on debating this "stuff'. Let me say first of all I am not a liberal or conservative. Right now I will probably vote for one of the Independents who will at least say they are against Corporate abuse of power and for enforcing our Immigration laws.
You accuse libs of picking and choosing with respect to tax breaks and yet you do the same when it comes to the choosing the alledged causes of the high price of gas in our country(competition for fuel from other countries). But how can we possibly know if that is 100% the case when we don't know what happened in the Energy Task Force meeting with Cheney?? Why would our v Pres. disallow those minutes from being made public? :shock: What does comon sense tell you? At this point logic tells me I certainly can't rule out a conspiracy of sorts. Especially when the taxpayer/future taxpayer gets to bail out the failed financial institutions of our country. Sorry but corporations have been allowed to plunder too long at he expense of the taxpayer. Government over sight of big business has been AWOL during this administration. Have a good day.
 

Texan

Well-known member
TSR said:
I have some stock in them but just because you have stock in them-does that give you any power? No but its like voting, it does give you a right to complain, I believe.
You also have the right to sell your stock. You have a problem with the way they do business, but you still own their stock? Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to bitch about something as much as you do, but still cash in on it? :???:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Oil Passes $126, Gas Jumps Above $3.67

MoneyNews
Friday, May 9, 2008


Oil rose above $126 a barrel for the first time Friday, bringing its advance this week to nearly $10, as investors questioned whether a possible confrontation between the U.S. and Venezuela could cut exports from the OPEC member. Gas prices, meanwhile, rose above an average $3.67 a gallon at the pump, following oil's recent path higher.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oil keeps going up and the Democrats don't want to drill in Anwar or offshore?

What's wrong with this picture? :roll:
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
Oil keeps going up and the Democrats don't want to drill in Anwar or offshore?

What's wrong with this picture? :roll:

Mike maybe its like you said about the Republicans when they were in control for 7 yrs. They more or less just can't get it passed. Seriously, we could ask the same thing for that time frame. But I'll bet one thing if it should come to pass that we get to drill in all those areas, the Dem.'s won't get any credit for it. Personally I say let the drilling begin!! :)
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Mike said:
Oil keeps going up and the Democrats don't want to drill in Anwar or offshore?

What's wrong with this picture? :roll:

Democrats are always on the side of saying no, but then they blame the ties to oil the Republicans have. I doubt the Dem's ever want gas prices to go down, they like things bad so they can blame Bush.

They say no to,

Drilling in Anwar
Drilling offshore
Building Nuke plants
Building Refineries
Promote Tough and unreasonable EPA regulations
promote Global Warming

After all the above mentioned Democratic stifles they still blame Bush :roll:
 

TSR

Well-known member
Texan said:
TSR said:
I have some stock in them but just because you have stock in them-does that give you any power? No but its like voting, it does give you a right to complain, I believe.
You also have the right to sell your stock. You have a problem with the way they do business, but you still own their stock? Don't you think it's a little hypocritical to bitch about something as much as you do, but still cash in on it? :???:

No my primary (what I prefer to call gripe) is not about the oil companies themselves but about our government's tax policy towards them. I think you can "cipher" that if you read carefully what I post. I guess I will always be for the working man rather than someone who is maybe trying to take advantage of the same.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
aplusmnt said:
Mike said:
Oil keeps going up and the Democrats don't want to drill in Anwar or offshore?

What's wrong with this picture? :roll:

Democrats are always on the side of saying no, but then they blame the ties to oil the Republicans have. I doubt the Dem's ever want gas prices to go down, they like things bad so they can blame Bush.

They say no to,

Drilling in Anwar
Drilling offshore
Building Nuke plants
Building Refineries
Promote Tough and unreasonable EPA regulations
promote Global Warming

After all the above mentioned Democratic stifles they still blame Bush :roll:

What did Bush and the Repubs do between Jan 2001 and Jan 2007- during which time they controlled both houses of Congress and the White House... :???:

What did your current annointed Champion "Little Bush" (McCain) do to open up offshore drilling or the ANWAR or any of your other issues... :???:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
No my primary (what I prefer to call gripe) is not about the oil companies themselves but about our government's tax policy towards them. I think you can "cipher" that if you read carefully what I post. I guess I will always be for the working man rather than someone who is maybe trying to take advantage of the same.

I believe Exxon alone paid more U.S. federal taxes than the lower 50% of all Americans combined. One company doing more than half of America. And that does not even go into the Taxes paid by their employees or the money the spend on products to help stimulate the economy.

You are so hung up on thinking someone may get something more than you get that you can not see the gift horse in front of your face.

Exxon is a profitable U.S. company that pays its fair share of taxes and does as much to keep America rolling as any other one company out there.

Would you rather see them fail and lay off people, cut wages, lower production which would raise prices?

I bet you would Beat Santa with a baseball bat for breaking into your home even though he was bringing you gifts :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Breaking News from MoneyNews.com

KB Homes’ Eli Broad: ‘Nowhere Near Bottom
in Housing’



Billionaire home developer Eli Broad could be forgiven for seeking a positive spin on the disaster that is the current real estate market.

After all, he founded KB Home, the fifth-largest builder in the country.

No such luck. "I don’t think we’re anywhere near the bottom in housing,” Broad told Bloomberg during the Milken Institute Conference in Beverly Hills, Calif.

"We’re going to have a big inventory of unsold, unoccupied homes that’s going to take three or four years to clear out.”

In fact, Broad sees home prices likely to drop by "another 20 percent.”


Real estate experts agree with that dour assessment. Housing guru Robert Shiller recently said that a 30 percent total drop — worse than during the Great Depression, but down from a tremendous rise — was certainly possible.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Breaking News from MoneyNews.com

KB Homes’ Eli Broad: ‘Nowhere Near Bottom
in Housing’



Billionaire home developer Eli Broad could be forgiven for seeking a positive spin on the disaster that is the current real estate market.

After all, he founded KB Home, the fifth-largest builder in the country.

No such luck. "I don’t think we’re anywhere near the bottom in housing,” Broad told Bloomberg during the Milken Institute Conference in Beverly Hills, Calif.

"We’re going to have a big inventory of unsold, unoccupied homes that’s going to take three or four years to clear out.”

In fact, Broad sees home prices likely to drop by "another 20 percent.”


Real estate experts agree with that dour assessment. Housing guru Robert Shiller recently said that a 30 percent total drop — worse than during the Great Depression, but down from a tremendous rise — was certainly possible.

I have read many articles that say it is not near as bad as it was made out to be. Also pointing out that many people losing their homes are people that use to rent and gave ownership a try and it did not work out for them, probably why they use to rent in first place.

Also many of the real estate doom and gloom writers are the same people that are looking to make a killing on the downside of the market. They want to paint it as bad of a picture as they can to help cause a frenzy to buy low and flip them.

And the missing point is how many thousands of people ended up not renting any more and now own homes that build equity that will benefit them in the end. Even with adjusted and higher mortgages it will serve these people better to own instead of renting. In today's spend now worry later society a home is sometimes the only asset some people have when they get retirement age. I imagine a lot more good was done for these people that got loans when they normally could not have.

Just depends on rather you look at glass half full or half empty. You can always find hard luck people that fall on hard times, but with hundreds of millions of people you have to look at the averages, and the average leans towards most people paying and affording their mortgages.
 

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