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Economy- New Poll

Do You think the US Economy is Heading into or in a Recession--or a Depression?

  • No-the Economy is doing Fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a mild short Recession

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a prolonged Recession/Depression

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Economic Collapse

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
A

Anonymous

Guest
aplusmnt said:
Just depends on rather you look at glass half full or half empty. You can always find hard luck people that fall on hard times, but with hundreds of millions of people you have to look at the averages, and the average leans towards most people paying and affording their mortgages.

Yep- just peanuts- $1 Trillion.... I forget that you elitists consider the investors of the world losing $1 Trillion into thin air is just chicken feed- and think nothing of your chosen Champions policy directions setting new negative records not before seen in modern history :roll: ....Hell- GW can run that much debt up for our grandkids in just one oil war against a 3rd world two bit country that didn't even have modern weapons :roll:

Financial luminaries, including Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein and fund gurus Mark Mobius and Bill Miller, say the worst of the financial market woes are behind us.

Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn disagrees.

Wolfensohn, now an advisor to Citigroup, told Bloomberg he’s pessimistic on the outlook for financial markets.

He believes that global bank losses from the credit market crisis could reach $1 trillion.

"I’m more pessimistic than optimistic,” Wolfensohn says. "That doesn’t necessarily mean a crash, but it means we’re not through the woods yet. There are continued dangers.”

So far, financial institutions have reported $310 billion in losses resulting from the credit market crisis that began with subprime mortgages in the U.S.

"It does seem to be a major adjustment on any level,” Wolfensohn says. "There may be $1 trillion worth of losses in it somewhere…. I can’t recall anything similar, certainly in the last 30 to 40 years that I’ve worked.”

Wolfensohn’s loss estimate is close to the International Monetary Fund forecast of $945 billion. Wolfensohn notes that $1 trillion now represents a "consensus estimate” for the losses.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
I am sure the banks will be just fine! Remember they are ones that are even more profitable than the oil companies.

Besides I guarantee you there is a fudging of the numbers to make things look more gloomy, there always is!

For instance they are most likely county say a repossession of a $100,000 home as a $100,000 loss in these reports. But that home did not disappear, it is still there, even if it loses some value due to the down trend in the market, these banks will eventually sell this home or turn around and finance it to someone else. Their loss will be very little in comparison as to their sky is falling screams.

Say they loaned a $100,000 on the home and only sold it for $80,000 I think financial institutions that have higher profit margins than Exxon can absorb it. If not they will live and learn.

In the mean time those once renters will go back to renting and the rental market boom will open up and grow that market. What comes around goes around, life and economics is a continuous circle, when one door closes another opens.

I am thinking about looking into buying some cheaper rent houses, probably be some people looking to rent if their home ownership did not work out.

Keep your head up OT, I am sure you will continue to have food on your plate, a roof over your head, Satellite TV to watch CSPAN and Internet connection to keep us informed on how bad we all have it! :wink:
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
No my primary (what I prefer to call gripe) is not about the oil companies themselves but about our government's tax policy towards them. I think you can "cipher" that if you read carefully what I post. I guess I will always be for the working man rather than someone who is maybe trying to take advantage of the same.

I believe Exxon alone paid more U.S. federal taxes than the lower 50% of all Americans combined. One company doing more than half of America. And that does not even go into the Taxes paid by their employees or the money the spend on products to help stimulate the economy.

You are so hung up on thinking someone may get something more than you get that you can not see the gift horse in front of your face.

Exxon is a profitable U.S. company that pays its fair share of taxes and does as much to keep America rolling as any other one company out there.

Would you rather see them fail and lay off people, cut wages, lower production which would raise prices?

I bet you would Beat Santa with a baseball bat for breaking into your home even though he was bringing you gifts :roll:

No I even have a chimney in my house for Santa to come down.
As I said in my other post Exxon pays substantially more,percentage- wise in those other countries. As the author(s) of the article which you posted stated, the US is much kinder to Exxon with respect to taxes. I wonder why? (certainly couldn't be pertaining to lobbyists could it?) And now according to the article YOU posted,besides the tax breaks, yes tax breaks Exxon is already receiving, it is starating to get another 17 billion over the next several years. Oh well, nothing like our own Government funding those high taxes that Exxon is paying in those foreign countries is it? :shock: :shock: Especially since Exxon is struggling the way they are.
Yeah I guess Exxon is laying off people in those other countries because they are paying a lot more in taxes over there than here. As I said in my other posting, those other countries better watch out Exxon just might relocate back here in the good ol' US :lol:
Aplus, you aren't hoping someone from Exxon will read these posts and offer you a job are you?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
I am sure the banks will be just fine! Remember they are ones that are even more profitable than the oil companies. Yepper...they thought the same thing back just before the Great Depression also



Besides I guarantee you there is a fudging of the numbers to make things look more gloomy, there always is! Isn't keeping double books against the law still???? :???: :???: :???: Once you start ' fudging up " the numbers...you'll soon forget where you REALLY are and it could be worse than even it was ' fudged' to be!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
No my primary (what I prefer to call gripe) is not about the oil companies themselves but about our government's tax policy towards them. I think you can "cipher" that if you read carefully what I post. I guess I will always be for the working man rather than someone who is maybe trying to take advantage of the same.

I believe Exxon alone paid more U.S. federal taxes than the lower 50% of all Americans combined. One company doing more than half of America. And that does not even go into the Taxes paid by their employees or the money the spend on products to help stimulate the economy.

You are so hung up on thinking someone may get something more than you get that you can not see the gift horse in front of your face.

Exxon is a profitable U.S. company that pays its fair share of taxes and does as much to keep America rolling as any other one company out there.

Would you rather see them fail and lay off people, cut wages, lower production which would raise prices?

I bet you would Beat Santa with a baseball bat for breaking into your home even though he was bringing you gifts :roll:

No I even have a chimney in my house for Santa to come down.
As I said in my other post Exxon pays substantially more,percentage- wise in those other countries. As the author(s) of the article which you posted stated, the US is much kinder to Exxon with respect to taxes. I wonder why? (certainly couldn't be pertaining to lobbyists could it?) And now according to the article YOU posted,besides the tax breaks, yes tax breaks Exxon is already receiving, it is starating to get another 17 billion over the next several years. Oh well, nothing like our own Government funding those high taxes that Exxon is paying in those foreign countries is it? :shock: :shock: Especially since Exxon is struggling the way they are.
Yeah I guess Exxon is laying off people in those other countries because they are paying a lot more in taxes over there than here. As I said in my other posting, those other countries better watch out Exxon just might relocate back here in the good ol' US :lol:
Aplus, you aren't hoping someone from Exxon will read these posts and offer you a job are you?

Other countries may not be as kind to Exxon as the U.S. but they still pay way more taxes in the U.S. than any other country. The bulk of their income is generated and U.S. taxable. It is only the percentage talked about in that article not gross.

And I believe that 17 Billion tax break you speak of was one estimated within the complete gas and oil industry over a span of many years. You make it out to sound like Exxon got a 17 Billion dollar break and I don't believe that is how it is.

What they got is not some subsidy the oil companies got to do some different depreciating etc... that lowered their taxes. I am all for lowering any taxes, corporate taxes in America are way to high. If you want to see Exxon move all operations overseas then raise their taxes and anyone else. We already see this happening with other companies.

Companies can leave, and you Libs would push them all out if you could tax as much as you want.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
aplusmnt said:
I am sure the banks will be just fine! Remember they are ones that are even more profitable than the oil companies. Yepper...they thought the same thing back just before the Great Depression also



Besides I guarantee you there is a fudging of the numbers to make things look more gloomy, there always is! Isn't keeping double books against the law still???? :???: :???: :???: Once you start ' fudging up " the numbers...you'll soon forget where you REALLY are and it could be worse than even it was ' fudged' to be!

Was talking about all the doom and gloom writers about the Housing bust. Many of these people are insiders in the industry. I guarantee you many of these experts that write articles about how bad the housing market is will be out there looking for houses to flip and invest in. And if it is not the writers, it is the people they interview to get the scoop.

More people own homes now than every in the U.S. that is a good thing! Renting is the fastest way to get nowhere. I think it was a good thing that some people now get to own homes that in the past never would have qualified for loans and would have rented their entire life. There will always be collateral damage, the strong and determined will survive.
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
I believe Exxon alone paid more U.S. federal taxes than the lower 50% of all Americans combined. One company doing more than half of America. And that does not even go into the Taxes paid by their employees or the money the spend on products to help stimulate the economy.

You are so hung up on thinking someone may get something more than you get that you can not see the gift horse in front of your face.

Exxon is a profitable U.S. company that pays its fair share of taxes and does as much to keep America rolling as any other one company out there.

Would you rather see them fail and lay off people, cut wages, lower production which would raise prices?

I bet you would Beat Santa with a baseball bat for breaking into your home even though he was bringing you gifts :roll:

No I even have a chimney in my house for Santa to come down.
As I said in my other post Exxon pays substantially more,percentage- wise in those other countries. As the author(s) of the article which you posted stated, the US is much kinder to Exxon with respect to taxes. I wonder why? (certainly couldn't be pertaining to lobbyists could it?) And now according to the article YOU posted,besides the tax breaks, yes tax breaks Exxon is already receiving, it is starating to get another 17 billion over the next several years. Oh well, nothing like our own Government funding those high taxes that Exxon is paying in those foreign countries is it? :shock: :shock: Especially since Exxon is struggling the way they are.
Yeah I guess Exxon is laying off people in those other countries because they are paying a lot more in taxes over there than here. As I said in my other posting, those other countries better watch out Exxon just might relocate back here in the good ol' US :lol:
Aplus, you aren't hoping someone from Exxon will read these posts and offer you a job are you?

Other countries may not be as kind to Exxon as the U.S. but they still pay way more taxes in the U.S. than any other country. The bulk of their income is generated and U.S. taxable. It is only the percentage talked about in that article not gross.

And I believe that 17 Billion tax break you speak of was one estimated within the complete gas and oil industry over a span of many years. You make it out to sound like Exxon got a 17 Billion dollar break and I don't believe that is how it is.

What they got is not some subsidy the oil companies got to do some different depreciating etc... that lowered their taxes. I am all for lowering any taxes, corporate taxes in America are way to high. If you want to see Exxon move all operations overseas then raise their taxes and anyone else. We already see this happening with other companies.

Companies can leave, and you Libs would push them all out if you could tax as much as you want.

I bet they got more tax breaks monetarily than the lower 50% of taxpayers, too.
You say they still pay way more taxes here than in any other country. You may be right if country is singular but when made plural it ain't so, by your own article which says" Exxon paid ~ 5 billion in 2007 to the US in taxes, while in total taxes the amount paid was 30 billion. Now that other 25 billion had to be paid outside this country or it would have been included in the 5 billion wouldn't it? These are numbers not percentages, unless I misread something. Something isn't adding up Aplus!
I will say the 17 billion will be given to more than just Exxon over the FEW years ('07-'11) which concentrates the tax breaks rather than spreading them out over many years as you suggest. Four years is not a long time.
With respect to running off companies 5 billion here with tax breaks vs. 30 billion abroad- I don't think they will be going anywhere. Those corporations have got you to thinking just like they want you to think Aplus, you would give them free rein wouldn't you? And that is exactly what has happened over the last couple of decades, I personally believe, starting with Reagan.
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
cutterone said:
Your house, just like anything else you have is only worth...
1. what you believe it's worth
2. what someone will give you or the market thinks it's worth

I hate to tell you but it's probably worth a lot less than you think, what it was worth a year ago, and what it means to you.

Is there anyway we can get you nominated to be the local tax assessor/collector?

You can chop the value of my holdings in half if you'd like. None will be sold and I truly don't care what anyone else thinks they're worth. The tax assessor just jumped the value way up again. They are now taxing the gas royalty too.

For all of you thinking the economy is down the tubes, check out the job fairs going on in Fort Worth. The next one is May 31 and they are begging for employees. Lots of nickels being thrown on advertising the job fair.

You refuse to look at the job offerings on Craig's list, just google "job fair" and look at all the places hosting them. XTO is seriously looking for employees in the Fort Worth proximity.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
S&P 500, Nasdaq hit 5-month highs

At the close, the Dow Jones industrials were up 94 points, or 0.7%, to 12,993. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index pushed up nearly 15 points, or 1.1%, to 1,424, and the Nasdaq Composite Index was up 37 points, or 1.5%, to 2,534.

The closes for the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq were their best since Jan. 3, and, so far this week, the Dow is up nearly 2%, the S&P 500 2.5% and the Nasdaq 3.6%.



http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/080515markets.aspx
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Jamie Dimon: The Worst is Ahead for Banks


Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:12 a.m. EDT


JPMorgan Chase CEO James Dimon says banks will suffer more from the recession than from the subprime debacle itself.

Investment banks have written down tens of billions of dollar so far, but the worst is not behind us yet, Dimon says. Banks will be hit harder as the recession unfolds.

"The recession is just starting,” Dimon told an audience at the UBS AG financial services conference in New York.

"We don't know whether it's going to be mild or severe. It could be deep, it could be worse than the capital markets crisis."

Dimon also believes that there is "a third of a chance” that the recession is "going to be pretty bad.”

The recession could "come closer to a 1982 recession than the very mild recession we had in 2001 and 1990,” Dimon said.

Credit quality is also declining much faster than experts had previously estimated, and it is going beyond the portfolios of consumers, Dimon said.

Another negative sign is that the volume of credit card charges is dipping, he said.

The recession thus is causing the "round two financial effect" of banking industry turbulence, Dimon said.

"Commercial bank losses are growing — you see it in home equity, you see it in other mortgage products, you see it in small business, you see it in wholesale business,” he said.

"They are not getting terrible, but they are getting worse."

The effect of the recession could last for quite awhile, farther into the future than experts have forecast, he said.

With credit standards getting tighter and reserves for loan losses increasing, companies will be forced to deleverage their balance sheets, resulting in "weaker” capital, Dimon said.

"This could take into '09 and '10," Dimon said.

Dimon’s sentiment echo those of billionaire investor George Soros.

Wall Street is emerging from the credit wreckage, but Main Street — the economy that ordinary people have to live with — is headed downhill fast, Soros told listeners at a recent Council on Foreign Relations event.

"I think we have the acute phase of the financial crisis largely behind us,” Soros says.

"But the damage that has been done to the system has to affect the real economy. The effect of that is only beginning to be felt.”

http://moneynews.newsmax.com/money/archives/st/2008/5/20/101407.cfm?s=al&promo_code=62B0-1
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The BUSH BUST continues- as Oil jumps $4 barrel- and dollar hits new low in value against the Euro- DOW down $200+ points..... :(

May 21, 3:05 PM EDT


Stocks tumble on $133 oil, Fed meeting minutes

By MADLEN READ
AP Business Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street extended its sharp decline Wednesday, driving the Dow Jones industrials down more than 200 points as investors smarted from record-high oil prices and a bleak economic assessment from the Federal Reserve.

Stocks fell in early trading in response to the surging price of oil, which shot up more than $4 and breached $133 a barrel for the first time on the futures market Wednesday.

The stock market slumped further after minutes from last month's Fed meeting revealed that even though policymakers expected sharply lower economic growth and higher unemployment later this year, inflation worries are likely to keep the central bank from cutting rates again.

High commodities prices have been a source of anxiety for investors, as many retailers and credit card companies have noticed consumers paring back spending on discretionary items, including clothing and jewelry, to buy necessities such as gasoline and groceries, which have been soaring in price.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WALL_STREET?SITE=MTBIL&SECTION=TOP_STORIES&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

New Record Low Vs. Euro for the Dollar

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 1:00 PM

BERLIN -- The dollar sank to another record low Wednesday, with a growing list of economic reports pointing to a worsening U.S. climate.

The euro rose to $1.5302 in afternoon European trading before dropping back slightly to $1.5278. The new low broke through the previous record set Monday at $1.5275.

The euro had bought $1.5208 in New York late Tuesday.

On Wednesday, reports showed that U.S. factories saw demand for their products drop sharply in January, while the country's service sector contracted last month.

They provided fresh evidence of weakness in an economy hit by housing and credit crises _ weakness that has raised expectations that the U.S. Federal Reserve will continue to cut interest rates.

http://www.moneynews.com/companies/dollar/2008/03/05/78048.html
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
The BUSH BUST continues- as Oil jumps $4 barrel- and dollar hits new low in value against the Euro- DOW down $200+ points..... :(

Why you going and posting a :( emoticon? You know that only a dose of Viagra can come close to getting you to reach that level of excitement that you get when you find a good negative cut and paste on Bush.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
The BUSH BUST continues- as Oil jumps $4 barrel- and dollar hits new low in value against the Euro- DOW down $200+ points..... :(

Why you going and posting a :( emoticon? You know that only a dose of Viagra can come close to getting you to reach that level of excitement that you get when you find a good negative cut and paste on Bush.

LOL and to think he needs all the help he can get!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hopalong said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
The BUSH BUST continues- as Oil jumps $4 barrel- and dollar hits new low in value against the Euro- DOW down $200+ points..... :(

Why you going and posting a :( emoticon? You know that only a dose of Viagra can come close to getting you to reach that level of excitement that you get when you find a good negative cut and paste on Bush.

LOL and to think he needs all the help he can get!

Boy - You and old Wanta Hoppy Something Someday are so tied up in your sexuality and manhood capabilities that most common folk don't even think about, let alone dwell upon - that you have to use that issue to try and discredit everybody/anything that you can't with facts or real arguments to the issue :shock: :wink: :lol: :lol: :( :( :(

Aplus (or is it A Minus when it really counts and the "time is right" :???: :wink: :p ) do those Viagra pills really work like TV advertises... :???:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
hopalong said:
aplusmnt said:
Why you going and posting a :( emoticon? You know that only a dose of Viagra can come close to getting you to reach that level of excitement that you get when you find a good negative cut and paste on Bush.

LOL and to think he needs all the help he can get!

Boy - You and old Wanta Hoppy Something Someday are so tied up in your sexuality and manhood capabilities that most common folk don't even think about, let alone dwell upon - that you have to use that issue to try and discredit everybody/anything that you can't with facts or real arguments to the issue :shock: :wink: :lol: :lol: :( :( :(

Aplus (or is it A Minus when it really counts and the "time is right" :???: :wink: :p ) do those Viagra pills really work like TV advertises... :???:

From what I hear you need all the help you can get!! Written on every court house and sherriffs office in Montana "Oldweener needs help", bad thing about it is your lovely bride wrote it! :D :D :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hopalong said:
Oldtimer said:
hopalong said:
LOL and to think he needs all the help he can get!

Boy - You and old Wanta Hoppy Something Someday are so tied up in your sexuality and manhood capabilities that most common folk don't even think about, let alone dwell upon - that you have to use that issue to try and discredit everybody/anything that you can't with facts or real arguments to the issue :shock: :wink: :lol: :lol: :( :( :(

Aplus (or is it A Minus when it really counts and the "time is right" :???: :wink: :p ) do those Viagra pills really work like TV advertises... :???:

From what I hear you need all the help you can get!! Written on every court house and sherriffs office in Montana "Oldweener needs help", bad thing about it is your lovely bride wrote it! :D :D :D

I wouldn't normally answer-- except this again PROVES MY POINT :roll: :( :( :( :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
And your point is??
99% of the time you are the one bringing up sexuality, having a problem with yours????
oppps we already know the answer to that :roll:
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
hopalong said:
..............Written on every court house and sherriffs office in Montana "Oldweener needs help"..........
You fixate on weeners, don't you sport? lust for them, do you? Again, as a pederaste, do you "Catch" or "pitch"? or just stand there with your mouth open waiting for whomever walks by?
 

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