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Economy- New Poll

Do You think the US Economy is Heading into or in a Recession--or a Depression?

  • No-the Economy is doing Fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a mild short Recession

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a prolonged Recession/Depression

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Economic Collapse

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
A

Anonymous

Guest
Texan said:
Oldtimer said:
Just coincidence this all occurred after Cheny met with all the oil executives in the "supersecret" backroom Cheney Energy Task Force discussions to develop the GW energy policy.... :???: :(


Oil Hits New Record $117 a Barrel

MoneyNews
Saturday, April 19, 2008


NEW YORK -- Oil prices hit a record high $117 a barrel Friday as jitters over Nigerian oil supplies outweighed a rally in the dollar and fears of an economic slowdown in giant energy consumer China.

U.S. light crude settled up $1.83 at $116.96 a barrel, before hitting a record $117. London Brent crude gained $1.49 to $113.92.

Oil prices have more than quadrupled since 2002 as supply struggles to keep up with booming demand, especially in China and other emerging economies.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/money/archives/articles/2008/4/18/171631.cfm

I changed the emphasis in the article you quoted, Oldtimer. That way, anybody with just a little bit of common sense will be able to tell that the fundamental principles of worldwide supply and demand are still at work in determining the prices for a globally-traded commodity. In spite of all your goofy-ass conspiracy theories.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
-- Benito Mussolini
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Bush & Co will do everything they can from now until the election to line their pockets and bank accounts with all the money possible.

They know it will prob be quiet awhile before another Rep., anything is in control again and they're packing back for a rainy day, so to speak.


The thing is that now that gas/ fuel has hit the $4 mark....do you EVER think it will come down again? NO It's here to stay now .
 

MoGal

Well-known member
For all the shrills on Wallstreet that keep saying a bottom has been reached, I hope they are investing in bank stocks..... lol.

Citigroup is bankrupt, they have less than 7% in reserves, and why they aren't put into receivership is just downright fraud.

But here's the IMF's 2008 GDP Growth estimate for the US: and it has graphs as well: .52 percent growth in 2008

http://www.thought-criminal.org/article/node/1501

As shown in the map, the IMF is expecting the US to be one of the slowest growing countries in 2008. When we downloaded a full list of their 2008 YoY GDP Growth estimates, we found that the US ranks 177th out of 181 countries. Below is a chart of the ten countries with the lowest 2008 GDP growth estimates (local currency) based on the IMF's forecasts.

Have a great day folks, I'm off to the homeplace to plant garden today.... hope we get it done before the rains come.
 

Texan

Well-known member
MoGal said:
Have a great day folks, I'm off to the homeplace to plant garden today.... hope we get it done before the rains come.
Be careful out there, MoGal. Don't let the sky fall on you. :wink:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oh my goodness..........I actually read a piece from CNN this morning about some mothers/wives who are staying home to save on gas, childcare, etc. and growing a garden, making soap, canning foods, etc. to help the family because of the economic woes..............

What is this world coming to????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

woranch

Well-known member
Seven Reasons to Welcome a Recession
Thursday April 3, 10:34 am ET

ByJeffrey Strain, Special to TheStreet.com


Recessions breed fear.
It's only natural. A slowdown in production at companies can result in layoffs and restructuring. People fret about their jobs and worry that it will be much more difficult to find new employment if they are let go. These are understandable concerns.


But for contrarians and bargain hunters, recessions provide a world of opportunities.

Here are seven ways that a recession can actually benefit your personal finances:


Affordable Homes
Those who bought homes looking to flip them for a quick profit and those who took out huge loans that they couldn't afford to pay will look at a recession with fear, but a recession should have little meaning for those who bought a home with the purpose of living in it for a long time.

Recessions are usually short-lived, and the housing market should recover long before most people are planning to sell their house.

For those who had been unable to afford a house because of soaring prices in the past few years, a recession is a golden opportunity. It brings housing prices down to more affordable levels. That means that many people who wanted to buy a house will be able to purchase one.

Recessions are also a good time to look for investment properties or vacation homes if either had been in consideration.

A recession gives anyone looking for quality housing a lot more bang for their buck than when the economy is flying high. Being able to purchase a quality house at an affordable price can greatly increase a person's net worth in the long run.


Low Mortgage Rates
In the attempt to ward off a recession, the Federal Reserve has made interest rates extremely low, resulting in more affordable loans for those who are in the market to purchase a house.

While these rates may not be available throughout the entire recession if inflation continues to rise, the rates will be around as long as the Fed can use them to ease the recession. Taking advantage of these low rates along with lower housing prices can truly make housing a deal.


Great Consumer Deals
As the economy sours and people buy less and less, stores need to provide better deals and discounts to attract consumers to their doors. This can mean steep discounts through sales and promotions, as well as financing that allows consumers to pay no interest over long periods of time.

These deals are not limited to the retail stores. It also means that there are great deals in the second-hand markets, since there are more people trying to sell and fewer people looking to buy. If you are an investor in collectibles and know them well, you can often buy collectibles at steep discounts during a recession that can be turned into a healthy profit when the economy recovers. For those who have saved money waiting for good deals, a recession is a great time to find those deals.


Inexpensive Stocks
While everyone is taking their money out of the market, hard economic times can be a great time to pick up stocks on the cheap when you look at them as long-term investments. Consumer stocks for large, stable companies such as Procter & Gamble that provide necessities such as soap and toilet paper will do well no matter what the economic conditions.

Recessions can be a great time to pick up undervalued stocks if you know what you're doing. That can greatly improve your net worth when the stock market recovers.


Great Travel Deals
During times of recession, most people don't think about traveling. For this exact reason, traveling can be a great deal when the economy is shaky. Lack of demand results in excess inventory, which forces hotels and other related travel industries to lower their prices. It also means a greater inventory to choose from and the ability to bargain for upgrades and other perks. That dream vacation that you have always wanted to take can be a lot more affordable during a recession, when travel related industries are begging for your business.


Streamline Your Finances
When things look like they are going to get a bit tougher, people begin to look at their personal finances a bit more closely and start to trim some of the fat. They look at ways that their money can be better spent and how they can get more for each dollar that they do spend. They pad their emergency fund a bit more and don't spend quite as freely as they do during times of rapid growth. This trimming of the fat is a good exercise that can help you see the important financial goals that you want to achieve and, by doing so, help you reach them more quickly.


Lower Credit-Card Rates
If you have a good credit rating, you are in a position to get extra perks from your credit-card company. Credit-card companies see higher delinquency payment rates during a recession, and it becomes even more important for them to keep their best customers. That gives you extra leverage to ask favors from them, such as having your interest rates lowered and annual fees waived.

While most people will look at a recession with fear and uneasiness, it's important to also realize that it's an opportunity to get some great deals and improve your personal finances. Taking advantage will allow you to reap greater benefits from all those dollars you have saved.
 

mrj

Well-known member
News this morning is that Repubs in Congress are challenging Pellosi to implement the 'plan' she bragged about two years ago for taking control of fuel prices when she blamed increasing costs entirely on the Republicans.

Like OT, she completely ignores the FACT that China, India, and other so called 'third world' nations have gotten very fuel hungry and are increasing DEMAND for fuels, worldwide.

It is so much easier for those two to take the cheap shots than to accept facts!

BTW, the Liberals and Enviro-Extremists in the USA have long been trying to get the gas prices in this country up to European levels......so how much of current pricing is due to their efforts?????

mrj
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
mrj said:
News this morning is that Repubs in Congress are challenging Pellosi to implement the 'plan' she bragged about two years ago for taking control of fuel prices when she blamed increasing costs entirely on the Republicans.

Like OT, she completely ignores the FACT that China, India, and other so called 'third world' nations have gotten very fuel hungry and are increasing DEMAND for fuels, worldwide.

It is so much easier for those two to take the cheap shots than to accept facts!

mrj

The fact is MRJ- that the oil industry connected leaders of our country (Bush/Cheney) fiddled while Rome burned...Rather than working on alternative fuels- coal gasification- wind and nuclear- etc- they twiddled their thumbs and did nothing that would interfer with the profiteering of their oil buddies....All at the expense of the American people and the country- while the oil companies set record profits....

Bush has been in a postion of leadership for 7 years- 6 of which he had his parties Congressional majority- and he still did nothing....
 

Mike

Well-known member
The White House

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
June 25, 2003

Hydrogen Economy Fact Sheet
U.S.-EU Summit
Cooperation on the Development of a Hydrogen Economy



On June 25, 2003, the United States and the European Union agreed to collaborate on the acceleration of the development of the hydrogen economy.

Both President Bush and European Commission President Prodi have made the development of a hydrogen economy a major priority.

President Bush's Hydrogen Fuel Initiative, announced on January 28, 2003, envisions the transformation of the nation's transportation fleet from a near-total reliance on petroleum to steadily increasing use of clean-burning hydrogen.

President Prodi at the European Union June 16-17 High Level Group on Hydrogen and Fuel cells Conference noted that hydrogen now looks like the best candidate to address sustainable development.

On June 16, Secretary Abraham and European Commissioner for Research Busquin signed the Cooperation in the Area of Fuel Cells, an annex to the 2001 Non-Nuclear Science & Technology Agreement.

U.S.-EU collaboration on the development of a hydrogen economy will provide a strong foundation for the International Partnership for the Hydrogen Economy (IPHE), announced by the United States in April of this year.

It will enable the U.S. and EU to: further the goals of sustained economic growth; strengthen our cooperation to work for universally compatible codes, standards, and regulations; strengthen our cooperation on research and development; and work together to foster public-private collaboration.

Background: Development of a Hydrogen Economy

President Bush's $1.2 billion hydrogen fuel initiative aims to reverse America's growing dependence on foreign oil by accelerating the commercialization of hydrogen-powered fuel cells to power cars, trucks, homes and businesses with no pollution or greenhouse gases.

The Hydrogen Fuel Initiative will include $720 million in new funding over the next five years to develop the technologies and infrastructure to produce, store, and distribute hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles and electricity generation.

Combined with the FreedomCAR (Cooperative Automotive Research) initiative, President Bush is proposing a total of $1.7 billion over the next five years to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells, hydrogen infrastructure and advanced automotive technologies.

This June, Secretary Abraham served as the keynote speaker at the European Unions June 16-17 High Level Group on Hydrogen and Fuel cells Conference.

In Secretary Abraham's speech he noted, " working together with international partners, we can leverage scarce resources and advance the schedule for research, development and deployment of the hydrogen production, storage, transport and end-use technologies."

Under the President's hydrogen fuel initiative, the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by fuel cells.

The hydrogen fuel initiative complements the President's existing FreedomCAR initiative, which is developing technologies needed for mass production of safe and affordable hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles.

Through partnerships with the private sector, the hydrogen fuel initiative and FreedomCAR will make it practical and cost-effective for large numbers of Americans to choose to use clean, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles by 2020.

This will dramatically improve America's energy security by significantly reducing the need for imported oil, as well as help clean our air and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

In April of this year, Energy Secretary Abraham announced the creation of the International Partnership for the Hydrogen Economy -- designed to efficiently organize, evaluate and coordinate multinational research, development and deployment of technologies that advance the transition to a global hydrogen economy -- and invited the European Union to join.

In May of this year, U.S. and EU hydrogen technical experts met in Brussels to identify potential areas for cooperation, including codes and standards, fuel cell technology, production, and storage.

Hydrogen is the simplest element and most plentiful gas in the universe. Yet hydrogen never occurs by itself in nature, it always combines with other elements such as oxygen and carbon. Once it has been separated, hydrogen is the ultimate clean energy carrier.

The U.S. Space Shuttle program relies on hydrogen-powered fuel cells to operate shuttle electrical systems, and the crews drink one of the byproducts: pure water. Hydrogen is one of the most promising alternatives to hydrocarbon fuels, such as gasoline.

Hydrogen can be produced from a wide variety of domestic resources using a number of different technologies. It can also provide a storage medium for intermittent and seasonal renewable technologies, and can be used in combustion processes and fuel cells to provide a broad range of energy services such as lighting, mobility, heating, cooling, and cooking.

The June 16 U.S.-EU Cooperation in the Area of Fuel Cells Annex identifies the following areas for cooperation:

a. Transportation demos, including fueling infrastructure;

b. Auxiliary Power Units (APUs);

c. Codes and standards including fuel infrastructure, vehicles, and APUs;

d. Fuel choice studies and socio-economic and environmental assessment (environmental technology assessment) of critical materials availability for low temperature fuel cells;

e. Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (SOFC) and high temperature fuel cell hybrid systems;

f. Support Studies, including socio-economic assessment of critical rare earth materials for high temperature fuel cells; g. Direct methanol and Polymer Electrolyte Membrane (PEM) fuel cells for transportation and stationary applications.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Bush energy plan includes coal-burning power plants
May 17, 2001 Posted: 2:17 p.m. EDT (1817 GMT)


Coal industry officials say coal is an important part of the nation's future


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (CNN) -- President Bush's long-range energy plan includes the use of more coal-burning plants, a proposal that some experts say might help avoid an energy crisis and that critics say would harm the environment.

Possibly offsetting criticism, the Bush administration wants to spend $2 billion on research into so-called clean coal technology aimed at reducing dirty emissions from coal-burning power plants.

Industry officials say more emphasis on coal is important to the nation's future.

"We need to have, in the United States, energy independence from the rest of the world," said Stuart Solomon of American Electric Power, one of the nation's largest coal-fueled power producers. "Coal is one of the major ways that we can do that, along with the other fuel sources that are emphasized in the plan -- natural gas, nuclear and a growing and important role for renewable power.
Bush to unveil national plan to stave off 'energy shortage'

"We think that's positive because it's for the next generation -- the future generation of coal plants that will be not only more efficient but more environmentally friendly," he said.

Some environmental activists disagree. "There's no such thing as clean coal," said Vivian Stockman of the Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition. "To get coal -- number one -- you have to extract it ... and in West Virginia that means mountaintop removal."

In coal-rich West Virginia, mountaintop mining began more than two decades ago and has resulted in the disappearance of about 300,000 acres of tree-lined mountaintops and the burying of at least 750 miles of streams. The industry says it repairs the damage to the land by replanting it after the coal is removed. But critics say mining is also removing a way of life.

"If you had any conscience at all, this wouldn't happen," said activist Larry Gibson. "We would find other sources of energy instead of trying to destroy our back yard."


Stuart Solomon of American Electric Power says the Bush energy plan will make the next generation of coal-burning power plants more efficient and environmentally friendly
But coal industry officials say coal is an important part of the nation's future. "What I think is commendable about the president's plan is he's not trying to address a near-term crisis," said Dale Heydlauff, senior vice president of environmental affairs for American Electric Power. "He is instead trying to develop a rational, longer-term energy policy for this country."

American Electric Power is the largest generator of electricity in the United States, and the largest consumer of coal. In 1998, the company burned 54 million tons of coal to produce relatively cheap electric power.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Mike said:
Bush energy plan includes coal-burning power plants
May 17, 2001 Posted: 2:17 p.m. EDT (1817 GMT)


Coal industry officials say coal is an important part of the nation's future


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (CNN) -- President Bush's long-range energy plan .




What a stupid way to start a sentence. First off...he does not have a ' long range' time period to be in ' power' AND second...even when he did , he did jack-shite about energy resources then, and don't go blaming the Dem Congress as Bush had full rein and political parties in control for most of his time.

He can not be made into the ' visionary' type President. He's a dufass.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Mike said:
Bush energy plan includes coal-burning power plants
May 17, 2001 Posted: 2:17 p.m. EDT (1817 GMT)


Coal industry officials say coal is an important part of the nation's future


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (CNN) -- President Bush's long-range energy plan .




What a stupid way to start a sentence. First off...he does not have a ' long range' time period to be in ' power' AND second...even when he did , he did jack-shite about energy resources then, and don't go blaming the Dem Congress as Bush had full rein and political parties in control for most of his time.

He can not be made into the ' visionary' type President. He's a dufass.

You are right, but he's not as much of a one as Gore, John Kerry, Hillary, or Obama. McCain is now our only hope. :wink:
 

Mike

Well-known member
First off...he does not have a ' long range' time period to be in ' power'

The above is what you call a DUFass statement...........................

All political aspirations are long range. What about the "War on Poverty" ?

We're still fighting that one and will be until the end of time.

Want me to name a couple of hundred "Long Term" goals of past President's? :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
First off...he does not have a ' long range' time period to be in ' power'

The above is what you call a DUFass statement...........................

All political aspirations are long range. What about the "War on Poverty" ?

We're still fighting that one and will be until the end of time.

Want me to name a couple of hundred "Long Term" goals of past President's? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Since they won't make the minutes of the meeting of the Energy Task Force and Cheny public, I wonder if the administration might also have had some short term political aspirations? :shock: :wink:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
kolanuraven said:
Mike said:
Bush energy plan includes coal-burning power plants
May 17, 2001 Posted: 2:17 p.m. EDT (1817 GMT)


Coal industry officials say coal is an important part of the nation's future


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (CNN) -- President Bush's long-range energy plan .




What a stupid way to start a sentence. First off...he does not have a ' long range' time period to be in ' power' AND second...even when he did , he did jack-shite about energy resources then, and don't go blaming the Dem Congress as Bush had full rein and political parties in control for most of his time.

He can not be made into the ' visionary' type President. He's a dufass.

You are right, but he's not as much of a one as Gore, John Kerry, Hillary, or Obama. McCain is now our only hope. :wink:


You don't hope for much do you?

Besides, all the people you just named ARE NOT and HAVE NOT been President so we don't know what they would or would not have done.


We know all to well what Dubya has done during his tenure. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
kolanuraven said:
Mike said:
Bush energy plan includes coal-burning power plants
May 17, 2001 Posted: 2:17 p.m. EDT (1817 GMT)


Coal industry officials say coal is an important part of the nation's future


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHARLESTON, West Virginia (CNN) -- President Bush's long-range energy plan .




What a stupid way to start a sentence. First off...he does not have a ' long range' time period to be in ' power' AND second...even when he did , he did jack-shite about energy resources then, and don't go blaming the Dem Congress as Bush had full rein and political parties in control for most of his time.

He can not be made into the ' visionary' type President. He's a dufass.

Yep- most leaders in leadership lead- they proact- not react....

All good leaders/management know and rely on the 6 P's

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

But as has been shown with GW- thruout his entire reign- there has been no prior planning for the good of the country- be it in what is needed to be done in Iraq, to our global trading policy, to energy policy, to economic policy, to immigration, etc, etc.... What ever his elitist buddies and the big corporates wanted GW gave them....

The $12+ BILLION dollars of US taxpayer dollars we spend monthly in Iraq handing out packets of money to people standing on the street corner because they hate us, and building new roads, schools, bridges, hospitals, etc., along with oil fields so the Halliburtons of the world can profiteer- while the Iraqis spend little or nothing of these oil profits while sticking BILLIONS in their bank accounts thru out the world-- could have been/be being used to develop alternative energy sources to help out Americans that are now feeling the Bush/Cheny/Oil Executives super secret meetings devised energy policy...... :( :( :( :mad:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
-- Benito Mussolini
 

Dylan Biggs

Well-known member
The $12+ BILLION dollars of US taxpayer dollars we spend monthly in Iraq handing out packets of money to people standing on the street corner because they hate us, and building new roads, schools, bridges, hospitals, etc., along with oil fields so the Halliburtons of the world can profiteer- while the Iraqis spend little or nothing of these oil profits while sticking BILLIONS in their bank accounts thru out the world-- could have been/be being used to develop alternative energy sources to help out Americans that are now feeling the Bush/Cheny/Oil Executives super secret meetings devised energy policy...... Sad Sad Sad Mad

Halliburton had to finance their humanitarian efforts in Iraq somehow. What better way than using taxpayers $.
 

Dylan Biggs

Well-known member
Oldtimer, as regards your poll, I was curios if your more optimistic respondents have had a peek at the U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK lately, www.brillig.com/debt_clock/. I guess there is such a thing as blind optimism and may be I am too much of a realist but it looks to me more like a ticking time bomb than a reassuring proclamation of prudent fiscal policy.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Dylan Biggs said:
The $12+ BILLION dollars of US taxpayer dollars we spend monthly in Iraq handing out packets of money to people standing on the street corner because they hate us, and building new roads, schools, bridges, hospitals, etc., along with oil fields so the Halliburtons of the world can profiteer- while the Iraqis spend little or nothing of these oil profits while sticking BILLIONS in their bank accounts thru out the world-- could have been/be being used to develop alternative energy sources to help out Americans that are now feeling the Bush/Cheny/Oil Executives super secret meetings devised energy policy...... Sad Sad Sad Mad

Halliburton had to finance their humanitarian efforts in Iraq somehow. What better way than using taxpayers $.

You say WE but your location shows you to be Canadian? :?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
mrj said:
News this morning is that Repubs in Congress are challenging Pellosi to implement the 'plan' she bragged about two years ago for taking control of fuel prices when she blamed increasing costs entirely on the Republicans.

Like OT, she completely ignores the FACT that China, India, and other so called 'third world' nations have gotten very fuel hungry and are increasing DEMAND for fuels, worldwide.

It is so much easier for those two to take the cheap shots than to accept facts!

mrj

The fact is MRJ- that the oil industry connected leaders of our country (Bush/Cheney) fiddled while Rome burned...Rather than working on alternative fuels- coal gasification- wind and nuclear- etc- they twiddled their thumbs and did nothing that would interfer with the profiteering of their oil buddies....All at the expense of the American people and the country- while the oil companies set record profits....

Bush has been in a postion of leadership for 7 years- 6 of which he had his parties Congressional majority- and he still did nothing....

Name a President that has did more to help start the production of alternative fuels? You ever heard of ethanol?

You really think in those 6 years he could have kept gas prices down? Do you know how oil is traded? Have you heard of the free market? Speculators? And if it is so easy to fix, then why have the Democrats did something since they took control of congress, yes it has just been a year but what efforts have they tried?

Truth is gas prices were under priced for years and we are having a correction in the market to reflect what other countries have been paying for long time. The U.S. has been spoiled with cheap gas prices that did not keep up with inflation for more than 20 years.

Like it or not High gas prices are here to stay, no matter who the president is!

I suggest Americans change their ways and start looking at self conservation. I know I am going to, I am currently searching car lots to trade F250 Crew Cab with V10 in for a Chevy 1/2 ton super cab. I can use old junker farm truck to pull gooseneck and use 1/2 ton with bumper pull for horse and small hauls. Most of the time I just drive the V10 as my personal transportation and family truck, I think I can cut my gas consumption almost in half by making these changes and driving less. Wife's car is about done in, and I am looking at next car to get at least 5 more miles per gallon. When Chevy Astro work vans need changed they will be replaced with small trucks which should add another 5 mpg. I spend over $2,000 a month on gas and I am going to cut that as hard as I can, cause OPEC or Washington are not going to do it for me.

We have to change the market! Personal responsibility, not rely on Government!
 

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