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Edward Snowden

Steve

Well-known member
I like many are torn on this.. the spying on the US program was illegal.. probably unconstitutional...

but he went to a communist country (H K now controlled and part of china) and released more information and data on other secret authorized programs..


now he is apparently in Russia..

he is a whistle blower in one sense.. and a defector at the least..

his intention might have been to just expose an illegal program.. but he has stepped over a line and is losing credibility as he exposes more secrets..

my guess.. to much fame/ego.. and now he is in to deep...
 

Tom in TN

Well-known member
I, too, am greatly conflicted on this. Long, long ago, in a far distant place, in any entirely different life, I worked in Naval Intelligence. I would never have considered revealing anything that I learned during that time. I felt then, and still feel today, that betrayal of a trust is one of the worst possible sins that a person can commit. - He's guilty of treason.

On the other hand, I never had access to any information that the Navy was doing anything that was illegal - nothing that violated the constitution and nothing that was an assult on American citizens. I'd like to think that I would have been man enough to resist any illegal activity that I became aware of. I certainly would not have gone public with anything like this, but I hope that I would have courage enough to escalate any "whistle-blowing" within a legitmate chain of command.

I guess he's a bad guy. I'm glad I was never in his situation.

Tom in TN
 

jigs

Well-known member
the running off to a commie country is the troubling part.... revealing the illegal activity, I consider him a Patriot. but I am wondering where his heart is, now that he is in Russia.

how many people who pull the curtain back on this administration are ran through the wringer, and hung out to dry as bad people, while Obama marches on with his death to America plan ???
 

Tam

Well-known member
I was listening to another NSA whistle blower on TV the other day and he was saying he thought maybe Snowden left the US as he felt that if he had stayed, everything he had to say would be swept under the rug and he would be charged with every charge the Obama Administration could think of to teach him and anyone else thinking of becoming a Whistle blower a lesson on keeping their mouths shut. This man faced ten charges under Obama because he dared to speak up. He got off on most but still lost his job and has a record that prevents him from getting another government job. He said others were not as lucky as he, as they are in prison for doing what they felt was right and reporting the NSA activities.

I'm not saying Snowden was right in how he went about getting the info out, he should have stayed in the US and did it through proper channels, but then Obama has not made it easy on those wanting to do what it right and report the wrongs they see happening now has he?

Those doing wrong and lying to cover it up are repeatedly promoted and the poor whistle blowers are being charge in record amounts under this Administration. Seems that is a bit azz backwards if Obama doesn't want to go do in History as the most CORRUPT Administration EVER.

And it is funny how if you leak top secret info that Obama doesn't want out you are hunted down to the ends of the earth but if you leak info that makes him look good to the adoring media/film makers you aren't even investigated for wrong doing. MORE OBAMA CORRUPTION. :x

Again HOW Snowden did it might be wrong but the Obama's Administration are to blame by the way they treat whistleblowers. Obama encourages whistleblowers through his speeches then charges anyone daring to speak up and apologizes to those doing the wrong/breaking the law by promoting them. THAT IS WRONG.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Funny how Kola is speechless now,

She wouldn't have been if this had taken place during the Bush administration.


First off...I wanted to see what ya'll would say and secondly I had work to do this AM and could not sit any longer at the 'puter.


I think he's a snitch and there is nothing worse than a snitch.

He will become a problem for any country who takes him as that country will wonder if the US is hacking them due to their involvement with Snowden. He has made himself a fool


I wonder if her REALLY knows all that he says he does.


People who brag the most usually know the least.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Steve said:
I think he's a snitch and there is nothing worse than a snitch.

thinking like that has made life quite difficult for many decent families in our inner city poor neighborhoods...

Should "Whistleblowers" be classified as snitches? I think not.

The statement about "snitches" above is the exact same terminology/phraseology used in jail and/or prison by those incarcerated.

Kola was how long in prison? :???:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Steve said:
I think he's a snitch and there is nothing worse than a snitch.

thinking like that has made life quite difficult for many decent families in our inner city poor neighborhoods...

If he was hell bent to be a snitch, there could have been a better way to make his point.

Look at Daniel Ellsberg( sp) who leaked the Pentagon Papers....he stood up and defended his position and reasons. He didn't run like a whupped dog!!
 

Mike

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Steve said:
I think he's a snitch and there is nothing worse than a snitch.

thinking like that has made life quite difficult for many decent families in our inner city poor neighborhoods...

If he was hell bent to be a snitch, there could have been a better way to make his point.

Look at Daniel Ellsberg( sp) who leaked the Pentagon Papers....he stood up and defended his position and reasons. He didn't run like a whupped dog!!

Ellsberg stands up for and praises Snowden: :lol:

http://www.ellsberg.net/

In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden’s release of NSA material – and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago. Snowden’s whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an “executive coup” against the US constitution.

Are all witnesses to crimes "snitches"? :roll:
 

Steve

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Steve said:
I think he's a snitch and there is nothing worse than a snitch.

thinking like that has made life quite difficult for many decent families in our inner city poor neighborhoods...

If he was hell bent to be a snitch, there could have been a better way to make his point.

Look at Daniel Ellsberg( sp) who leaked the Pentagon Papers....he stood up and defended his position and reasons. He didn't run like a whupped dog!!

to be honest.. I really doubt you understand the definition nor meaning of the word snitch..

instead of trying to get you to understand how misguided and uninformed you really are... I'll instead ask a more relevant question..



I guess the more important question is.. Should the US goverment be collecting your phone and internet data in violation of the US Law and the US Constitution?
 

hopalong

Well-known member
I agree Steve!!! Guess some people would rather keep a secret and let more harm come about by keeping their mouths shut,,,, but cant keep their mouths shut when they should.... EH :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: Knowing how you hate it when someone says that Eh lil one???
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
I still wonder if he would be a "Snitch" if GW was in power. :roll:


In my book YES...BUT...let us NOT forget who started all this spying and listening business with the Patriot Act, etc......

GW Bush himself!!!
 

Tam

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I still wonder if he would be a "Snitch" if GW was in power. :roll:


In my book YES...BUT...let us NOT forget who started all this spying and listening business with the Patriot Act, etc......

GW Bush himself!!!

Let's not forget who campaigned against the Patriot Act promising to go though every thing Bush did and put a stop to it as HE DIDN'T SUPPORT WHAT BUSH WAS DOING. :wink:

BUT once in office the same person back flipped and doubled down on the snooping which included targeting MILLIONS OF AMERICANS AND THE PRESS by seizing their phone and email records to see who their Government informers were so he could charge them with leaking info. but did he investigate all those leaking info to the Press/ NYT IE top secret info meant to make him look good NOPE, just those meant to make him look like the Constitutional law breaking snooper he is.

OH HEY THAT WAS OBAMA HIMSELF, So that is OK isn't it Kola? :wink: :roll:
 

Mike

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I still wonder if he would be a "Snitch" if GW was in power. :roll:


In my book YES...BUT...let us NOT forget who started all this spying and listening business with the Patriot Act, etc......

GW Bush himself!!!

I really hope you don't think that wiretapping and spying started with Bush. :lol:

That's a lot like like saying Al Gore invented the internet. :roll:
 

Steve

Well-known member
for the record.. the NSA was started in 1952

in 1973 the Supreme Court ruled that warrants were required for domestic surveillance

in 1975 the Senate uncovers illegal domestic surveillance.. (spying)

December 2000 the NSA moves to the "internet"


I guess this mess was "started" by Clinton... if that is what we are looking for...

Bush elected and sworn in Jan 2001

October 4th 2001 Bush breaks law after getting advice he wasn't breaking law..

October 11th.. Pilosi sends letter of concern.. but doesn't have the guts to stop program.. so she covers her butt..

by late 2002 the telecoms are voluntarily complying..

Sept 25 republican controlled congress cancels program similar to what is already being done. due to privacy concerns..

March 2003 Bush tells Deputy Attorney General Comey to get program in compliance.. but program stays unchanged..

this is an important point in the program.... and this name will pop up in the near future..

Dec 2005 16 NY Times exposes program and is not charged with espionage..

May 11th 2005 .. NSA collecting all Americans phone calls fro "database'

Feb 1 2006
(Inspectors General Report, Pg 30)

The President decides not to reauthorize the Presidential Surveillance Program and the final Presidential Authorization expires on February 1, 2007, after FISA court opinion allegedly allows him to continue it indefinitely.

June 20th 2007 Senator Obama Breaks Promise and Votes For the FISA Amendments Act

at this point.. Obama knows the program is illegal... and unconstitutional.. and as president stops it.. well not really... instead he gets a reports saying it isn't doing any good

Jul 10 2009 Inspectors General Report Released, Finds Program of Little Value, Criticizes Legal Reasoning

Apr 15 2011 New York Times Reports NSA Still Collecting Purely Domestic Communications and is still not charged with espionage..

June 18 2013 Department of Justice Confirms NSA Does Not Need Court Order

in 1973 the Supreme Court ruled that warrants were required for domestic surveillance https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline

Bush broke the law.. and collected phone data..

Obama knew the law was being broken.. and worse.. continued it
collecting phone and internet data..

both Democrats and Republicans in the house and senate knew the law was being broken and that the program was Unconstitutional..


and meanwhile.. we have had the Fort Hood shooter,.. and the Boston bombers.. both missed... both with significant communication both authorized by law and considered by the high court as legal to monitor..

maybe if Obama wasn't to busy wasting resources on an illegal unconstitutional program with little value they could have "looked" at those actual terrorists.
 
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