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Effects of cow size on pasture management

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
BeefTalk: Cow Size - Effects Of Cow Size On Pasture Management



The effect of cow size and expected production from pasture management directly impacts expected outcomes that translate into income. This relationship was discussed in recent BeefTalk articles.



A drought, at least in western North Dakota, initiated the discussion. The Dickinson Research Extension Center established two different groups of cattle based on body weight, calculating inputs and potential outcomes.



The two groups (herds) of cattle were weighed. The first herd had 52 cows that averaged 1,216 pounds (856 to 1,395 pounds) and the second herd was 50 cows that averaged 1,571 pounds (1,350 to 1,935 pounds).



Since not all of these cows had mature records in the center's data system, data from all the cows was added. Mature cow records were allotted to 100-pound increments.



The production potential based on "percentage of cow weight weaned" was calculated for the mature cows. Lee Manske, DREC range scientist, calculated the expected nutritional pasture needs and expected outcomes from these cows based on production estimates by 100-pound increments of cow weight.



For cows that were less than 1,300 pounds, the monthly forage dry-matter intake was calculated at 933 pounds. This required 10.75 acres per cow per grazing season in western North Dakota, with a predicted calf weaning weight of 617 pounds.



For cows that weighed from 1,301 to 1,400 pounds, the monthly forage dry-matter intake was calculated at 997 pounds. This required 11.49 acres per cow in western North Dakota, with a predicted calf weaning weight of 611 pounds.



For cows that weighed from 1,401 to 1,500 pounds, the monthly forage dry-matter intake was calculated at 1,051 pounds. This required 12.11 acres per cow in western North Dakota, with a predicted calf weaning weight of 589 pounds.



For cows that weighed 1,501 to 1,600 pounds, the monthly forage dry-matter intake was calculated at 1,101 pounds, requiring 12.68 acres per cow in western North Dakota, with a predicted calf weaning weight of 598 pounds.



For cows that were greater than 1,600 pounds, the monthly forage dry-matter intake was calculated at 1,188 pounds, requiring 13.68 acres in western North Dakota with a predicted calf weaning weight of 572 pounds.



With that data, I already can hear the e-mails coming. The data does not appear logical.



The data means calf gain on pasture weaning weight minus birth weight and then divided by age and then multiplied by grazing days is decreasing as the cow size increases. The larger cows are weaning less percentage of their body weight and producing a smaller calf.



Cows less than 1,300 pounds had a pasture gain estimated at 336 pounds. The 1,301- to 1,400-pound cows, gain was estimated at 332 pounds, the 1,401- to 1 ,500-pound cows, gain was estimated at 318 pounds, the 1,501- to 1,600-pound cows, gain was estimated at 323 pounds and for cows weighing more than 1,600 pounds, the gain was estimated at 307 pounds.



Translated even further, seasonal calf weight gain (pounds) per acre for each cow group would be 31.21, 28.88, 26.23, 25.49 and 22.41 pounds, respectively. Associated individual costs could be calculated as well as the value of calf gain on a per-acre and/or per-cow basis to fine-tune the added value of the smaller cow.



As was noted in previous discussions, what is offered here is food for thought. Previous and future managerial decisions can and will determine production potential.



There is little we can do to change nutritional requirements, stocking rates and plant biology. How cattle perform given individual production scenarios will vary, but one thing is for sure, do not assume what you see fits.



The actual collection of data is essential to guide local changes in management. The application of assumed principles may or may not apply locally.



It never hurts to have "more food for thought" for supper.



May you find all your ear tags.



Your comments are always welcome at http://www.BeefTalk.com



Source: Kris Ringwall, Beef Specialist
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milkmaid

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
BeefTalk: Cow Size - Effects Of Cow Size On Pasture Management

The production potential based on "percentage of cow weight weaned" was calculated for the mature cows. Lee Manske, DREC range scientist, calculated the expected nutritional pasture needs and expected outcomes from these cows based on production estimates by 100-pound increments of cow weight.

Why is it that they only give the predicted numbers -- not the actual numbers? Did they not run the study? did the results of the experiment not match up with what was predicted?
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
While I'm certainly a fan of smaller framed cows, I noticed the "predicted" stuff too and wonder what the deal is with the article? If someone is hypothesizing that a larger cow is going to wean a smaller calf, they're dreaming.

Now wean fewer pounds of calf per lb of feed consumed I'll agree with. But not 1200 lb cow weaning 617 lb calf while the 1600 lb cow weaned off a 530 lb calf.

Rod
 

Denny

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
While I'm certainly a fan of smaller framed cows, I noticed the "predicted" stuff too and wonder what the deal is with the article? If someone is hypothesizing that a larger cow is going to wean a smaller calf, they're dreaming.

Now wean fewer pounds of calf per lb of feed consumed I'll agree with. But not 1200 lb cow weaning 617 lb calf while the 1600 lb cow weaned off a 530 lb calf.

Rod

I weigh all my registered calves in the fall and from my True weaning weight's my biggest cows are my poorest producer's for the most part.
 

cowzilla

Well-known member
Denny said:
DiamondSCattleCo said:
While I'm certainly a fan of smaller framed cows, I noticed the "predicted" stuff too and wonder what the deal is with the article? If someone is hypothesizing that a larger cow is going to wean a smaller calf, they're dreaming.

Now wean fewer pounds of calf per lb of feed consumed I'll agree with. But not 1200 lb cow weaning 617 lb calf while the 1600 lb cow weaned off a 530 lb calf.

Rod

I weigh all my registered calves in the fall and from my True weaning weight's my biggest cows are my poorest producer's for the most part.
Poorest meaning lower weaning weight per 100wt of cow or just lower weaning wt ave per rest of calves in herd?
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
From a landowner's standpoint, I will not let the tenant run the same number of 1600# Charolais cows as 1100# angus cows. If he were grazing Herefords rather than Angus, I'd probably let him throw 2 extra pairs in the pasture.

I'll take payment of that 12 pack the next time I'm down, OK, Jiggsy? :lol:
 

Denny

Well-known member
cowzilla said:
Denny said:
DiamondSCattleCo said:
While I'm certainly a fan of smaller framed cows, I noticed the "predicted" stuff too and wonder what the deal is with the article? If someone is hypothesizing that a larger cow is going to wean a smaller calf, they're dreaming.

Now wean fewer pounds of calf per lb of feed consumed I'll agree with. But not 1200 lb cow weaning 617 lb calf while the 1600 lb cow weaned off a 530 lb calf.

Rod

I weigh all my registered calves in the fall and from my True weaning weight's my biggest cows are my poorest producer's for the most part.
Poorest meaning lower weaning weight per 100wt of cow or just lower weaning wt ave per rest of calves in herd?

Poorest meaning smallest 450# calves 1600# cows my best are the 1200# cows with the 600 to 650# calves.On top of that those big cows have the worst disposition's.This fall they will be going to town they will kill for more than a bred cow is worth so thats where they'll be headed.These cows are 8 years old now all purchased as bred heifers never made much money on them.I bought 24 of them and only 2 stick out as good honest cows in my book.But don't worry they have pedigree's from the best herds out there. :wink:
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Denny said:
Poorest meaning smallest 450# calves 1600# cows my best are the 1200# cows with the 600 to 650# calves.On top of that those big cows have the worst disposition's.This fall they will be going to town they will kill for more than a bred cow is worth so thats where they'll be headed.These cows are 8 years old now all purchased as bred heifers never made much money on them.I bought 24 of them and only 2 stick out as good honest cows in my book.But don't worry they have pedigree's from the best herds out there. :wink:

In my experience thats not the norm. I've got a couple bigger cows left around here (1500 lbs) and they've generally got the biggest calves out in the pasture come fall. However they only wean around 45% - 50% of their body weight in calf, whereas my 1200 lb cows will give me 50% - 55%. So I figure I'm making more money on my 1200 lbers.

The neighbor has a few cracking good Simmental crosses that really wean some calves too. Again, 15-1600 lb cows but he'll get anywhere between 45% and 55% of the cows weight in calf.
 

Denny

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Denny said:
Poorest meaning smallest 450# calves 1600# cows my best are the 1200# cows with the 600 to 650# calves.On top of that those big cows have the worst disposition's.This fall they will be going to town they will kill for more than a bred cow is worth so thats where they'll be headed.These cows are 8 years old now all purchased as bred heifers never made much money on them.I bought 24 of them and only 2 stick out as good honest cows in my book.But don't worry they have pedigree's from the best herds out there. :wink:

In my experience thats not the norm. I've got a couple bigger cows left around here (1500 lbs) and they've generally got the biggest calves out in the pasture come fall. However they only wean around 45% - 50% of their body weight in calf, whereas my 1200 lb cows will give me 50% - 55%. So I figure I'm making more money on my 1200 lbers.

The neighbor has a few cracking good Simmental crosses that really wean some calves too. Again, 15-1600 lb cows but he'll get anywhere between 45% and 55% of the cows weight in calf.


I think the major problem with these cows is they were pushed like feedlot heifers to get the sale fat as bred heifers it wrecked some of their feet and they dont milk very much.They always stay in good flesh and are easy to look at but that's where it ends.I have only kept a few heifers from them and they are good cows but they also come from the better cows in the bunch.I only have about 10 of them left anyhow the tend to self distruct.
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
With the quality of feed here, big cows cull themselves fairly quick by being open. They very rarely bring home the best calves either.
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
Here's a different angle for you: what about his line stating, "There is little we can do to change.....stocking rates and plant biology." What the ____? If that't the case, why do we bother with rotational grazing, holistic resource management, Wayne Burleson Workshops, Dick Diven Schools, bale-grazing on pasture, strip-grazing, mob-grazing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?????
We do all of these things to try and IMPROVE pasture!!! When we improve the health of our soils what do we see??? We see a more diverse plant population, increased forage growth, and, WOW, higher stocking rates.

All I'm getting at, is let's not stick our heads in the sand and think that there is nothing we can do. There are very few corners of the world where pasture land cannot be improved in some way.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I'm always a bit skeptical about this 45-55% weaning weight ratio to cow weight. How old is the calf when the % is figured and when is the cow weighed to get her 'true' weight. I know how I do it, but I would be interested in how others figure it.

And I can tell you from experience, cows weigh at least 100 lbs. less at the sale barn than they do at home.
 

per

Well-known member
I don't use any rocket science formula for a percentage as the only time we weigh cows is as a cull and usually fat off grass. The heaviest in the last several years was 1350 lbs. We wean according to where the forage resources are and the condition of the cows. After weaning the cows with the smaller calves are culled and sold. The calves never see a scale until they are sold off grass the next summer. Most are fat or short keeps at 950 to 1100 lbs. We market the fat ones as sides or quarters to the health conscious city folk down the road. Grass biology and the way we graze has everything to do with getting cattle fat off grass.

I always thought that scales were overrated and necessary just for the purebred guys and at one end of a sale transaction. Do I have that wrong?
 

cowzilla

Well-known member
Most cattlemen have there culls picked out before they are even close to a scale. Purecountry is right you got to have grass to make these critters grow. Lots of good grazing ideas out there and I know it has sure improved my stocking rates. But there still is more that can be done :roll:
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
per said:
I always thought that scales were overrated and necessary just for the purebred guys and at one end of a sale transaction. Do I have that wrong?

I dunno. I think they're useful. As a general rule of thumb a cow that weighs X lbs will eat Y lbs of feed per day. I know there are easy and hard keepers out there, but I'm talking averages. And I want my cows to wean off a certain calf weight at 5 months because I can approximate calf gain per lb of feed intake. The only way to be certain that I'm seeing this is with scales.

Things are too tight right now to keep poor performing animals. My animals don't all weigh the same, so figuring things based on a percentage of mature cow weight is a good way to figure out which cows are performing and which aren't.

Rod
 

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