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End of an Era

Northern Rancher said:
Luing bacxk on british would work pretty well I'd think. I've had some real good tarentaise cows over the years-well xbred ones.
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Back on most British breeds should work but I wouldn't advise it on Galloway, Highland or (possibly) Welsh Black. There is an old saying in Scotland never to breed "hair to hair" and based on the examples of such breeding I've seen I'm inclined to agree. Some of the calves are fine but a percentage have "extreme hair" and never grow.
 
Grassfarmer,

I now work for the Navy in Southern California after being in the purebred business for a number of years (Charolais). I can't earn even remotely ,what I make as an electrical engineer in the cattle business or at any job in Alberta.
Down here most of the best cattle range has either been paved over, planted with grapes, or are now state parks (Magu State Park). Most of the cattle operations are ran for tax purposes and are hobbies. The vast majority of cattle owners have other sources of primary income. This means that productivity of the cow herds is not great. Most of the bulls are unregistered Black Angus bulls (no EPDs etc.)with no coherent breeding program.
The first order of business is to get better grass (range and irrigated pasture) management as much ground here is over grazed due limited land base relative to numbers.
The second is to get a realistic set of goals for the conditions in the area. A good crossbreeding program using vastly higher quality seed stock is the next order of business. Given the lack of grain and arid conditions a moderately small and milking crossbred cow bred to a European terminal breed is the likely way to go.
Given the Luing's attributes they could be part of this particularly in Coastal and Northern California where the climate does not get too warm for the "hair" breeds. Many grassfed beef operations such as Hearst Ranch (Yes of the the Hearst Castle fame and the best range management in Central California http://www.hearstranch.com/) are being started up. No specialist grass genetics are being utilized but would be a big improvement. What is needed is market development to convince these guys to buy bulls better suited to their conditions. They do not know what a Luing is or what a good crossbreeding system could do for them. Just remeber these guys are not used to spending money on bulls so you would have to show them.
 
Northern Rancher said:
I was thinking Horned Hereford imagine that lol.
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I have a breeder down at Trochu that's ahead of you NR. He is using the Luing on his purebred first calf horned hereford heifers for ease of calving and to produce a better winterized baldie. Ultimately they will be bred to his Charolais bulls in a well thought out program using hybrid vigor to produce a product that will fit the need at every stage of the chain. He is very happy with the cross.

VLS_GUY said:
Grassfarmer,

I now work for the Navy in Southern California after being in the purebred business for a number of years (Charolais). I can't earn even remotely ,what I make as an electrical engineer in the cattle business or at any job in Alberta.
Down here most of the best cattle range has either been paved over, planted with grapes, or are now state parks (Magu State Park). Most of the cattle operations are ran for tax purposes and are hobbies. The vast majority of cattle owners have other sources of primary income. This means that productivity of the cow herds is not great. Most of the bulls are unregistered Black Angus bulls (no EPDs etc.)with no coherent breeding program.
The first order of business is to get better grass (range and irrigated pasture) management as much ground here is over grazed due limited land base relative to numbers.
The second is to get a realistic set of goals for the conditions in the area. A good crossbreeding program using vastly higher quality seed stock is the next order of business. Given the lack of grain and arid conditions a moderately small and milking crossbred cow bred to a European terminal breed is the likely way to go.
Given the Luing's attributes they could be part of this particularly in Coastal and Northern California where the climate does not get too warm for the "hair" breeds. Many grassfed beef operations such as Hearst Ranch (Yes of the the Hearst Castle fame and the best range management in Central California http://www.hearstranch.com/) are being started up. No specialist grass genetics are being utilized but would be a big improvement. What is needed is market development to convince these guys to buy bulls better suited to their conditions. They do not know what a Luing is or what a good crossbreeding system could do for them. Just remeber these guys are not used to spending money on bulls so you would have to show them.
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That's interesting VLS, I hear you when you say some folks are producing grass-fed without the benefit of genetics developed for that purpose. Up here it disappoints me that in the grass management circles, extended grazing operations etc many of the operators continue to use large, grain developed genetics.
No need to worry with your final comment - we produce them cheap on grass so we can sell them cheap. I'd rather sell a lot of good bulls at reasonable commercial money that one at a high price. I have no interest in the show ring or chasing high priced bull sales - we are a commercial operation breeding bulls that will make money for our commercial customers.
 
It sounds like some market development work is in order. A typical grassfed operation in central California is the Fairoaks ranch: http://www.forbeef.com/bull2.htm Using New Zealand Angus bulls is OK but what about the advantages of a crossbred cow? They harvest steerts averaging 1070 LB. at 17 months of age. My feeling is that this could be improved somewhat. Also these guys have never seen a good Hereford bull. Northern Ranchers calving ease bull would fit in fine in the fairoaks operation IMO.
 
She'll be more hardy and fertile-when we pregtest there's always more straight blacks than baldies come in dry. An crossbred cow usually lasts a couple more calves too. The cattle business is the last bastion of purebreeds in a commercial setting and we wonder why its hard to compete!!! Circle A farms did a pretty comprehensive test of baldies vs straight angus -it was an eye opener. Angus and hereford really compliment each other in a crossbreeding situation.
 
VLS_GUY said:
It sounds like some market development work is in order. A typical grassfed operation in central California is the Fairoaks ranch: http://www.forbeef.com/bull2.htm Using New Zealand Angus bulls is OK but what about the advantages of a crossbred cow? They harvest steerts averaging 1070 LB. at 17 months of age. My feeling is that this could be improved somewhat. Also these guys have never seen a good Hereford bull. Northern Ranchers calving ease bull would fit in fine in the fairoaks operation IMO.
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I don't think the harvest weight of 1070lbs at 17 months is anything to be sneezed at in a grass-fed system. We average only a little more than that with straight or crossbred steers. The key is whether they are well marbled, finished cattle at that weight or just feeder steers. That is where the genetic component becomes important.
I have nothing against the NZ genetics - phenotypically I prefer most of them to most of the Angus in North America but at the same time we must remember they are a type that has evolved under NZ conditions of a raw, wet, green climate over 100 years and that is quite different to where they are being used in North America. Time will tell how they adapt.
 
Contacts at Hearst Ranch tell me that 1070 at 17 months is an exceptional performance under California range conditions. Hearst Ranch is producing a 1100 LB low select animal at 24 months of age. They have 5,000 head of cows and they maintain a finishing facility to finish the cattle. If they did not do this the cattle would likely not even make select. They make no claims for their product to be organic.
 
I'm not throwing stones at anybody, I'm really not, but I don't think I could get too excited about low Select grass-fed beef. I guess I've said that before on this site...

I hope the Hearst Ranch sells the heck out of that product and it that they are happy with the results. They deserve credit for doing something and creating a market that they can capitalize on. More than I can say for myself.

HP
 
That's good as long as they're 1070 AND FINISHED. Ours are 1200 at 20-24 months and quite fat. I've had some less than pleasureable eating experiences with meat that wasn't finished. All other things being equal, I prefer to get them a little juicier before we slaughter.
 
Purecountry,

The meat I saw was basically Canada A1 in leanness with slight marbling. Their hamburger is 80/20. On their website they explicitly warns against cooking well done and tell the customer that the best eating experience is with rare to medium rare level of cooking or the meat will dry out.
 
VLS_GUY said:
Purecountry,

The meat I saw was basically Canada A1 in leanness with slight marbling. Their hamburger is 80/20. On their website they explicitly warns against cooking well done and tell the customer that the best eating experience is with rare to medium rare level of cooking or the meat will dry out.
Click to expand...

That's been our experience also with the overcooking. As far as marbling, we've never had anything graded, but we've been happy with the results on the plate.
 

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