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Ethanol byproducts could increase polio in cattle

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Sir Loin

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Kewords: Ethanol, polio, cattle, Land O’ Lakes


FYI:
April 30, 2007
Ethanol byproducts could increase polio in cattle

http://www.joplinglobe.com/farm/x212060119/Ethanol-byproducts-could-increase-polio-in-cattle?keyword=secondarystory



SULFUR CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE Court Campbell, Ph.D., Land O’ Lakes
During the every day challenges of feeding cattle, you may not put much thought into the sulfur level in your finishing diet, but sulfur can play a major role in the performance of your cattle. Sulfur is a required mineral for all animals, where it plays an important role in protein, fat, carbohydrate and energy metabolism. However, this is one of those cases where more is not always better. The suggested sulfur requirement of cattle is .10 - .15%. Dr. Richard Zinn at the University of California recently obtained some interesting results when he fed diets containing sulfur levels of .15 to .25%. When sulfur exceeded .20% of the diet dry matter, dry matter intake and average daily gain decreased while feed to gain increased. Also, they noticed that rib-eye area decreased. High sulfur intake can lead to decreased dry matter intake and poorer daily gain in cattle, possibly by causing a copper deficiency.
Sulfur can come from several different sources. Corn by-products such as corn gluten feed, corn steep liquor and distillers grains tend to be high in sulfur. We have known for some time that these by-products can contribute to Polioencephalomalacia (Brainers, Polio), a disease created by a thiamine deficiency. It appears that sulfur can destroy thiamine in the rumen. However, studies evaluating thiamine supplementation under sulfate induced polios are very inconsistent. Polios can also be caused by a drop in the rumen pH resulting from acidosis. This drop in rumen pH can result in the release of bacterial enzymes in the rumen that can also break down thiamine. At Land O Lakes, we typically do not include thiamine in the diet, but rather, approach the problem by stressing the importance of bunk management and recommending immediate injectable treatment of individual animals showing signs of Polio.
Source: http://www.beeflinks.com/sulfur.htm

Also see: http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54784
 

BlackCattleRancher

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I hope there are more with your mentality to keep the demand and prices down on the ethanol byproducts. Greatest feed since the indians came up with the corn kernel.

Sir Loin said:
Kewords: Ethanol, polio, cattle, Land O’ Lakes


FYI:
April 30, 2007
Ethanol byproducts could increase polio in cattle

http://www.joplinglobe.com/farm/x212060119/Ethanol-byproducts-could-increase-polio-in-cattle?keyword=secondarystory



SULFUR CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE Court Campbell, Ph.D., Land O’ Lakes
During the every day challenges of feeding cattle, you may not put much thought into the sulfur level in your finishing diet, but sulfur can play a major role in the performance of your cattle. Sulfur is a required mineral for all animals, where it plays an important role in protein, fat, carbohydrate and energy metabolism. However, this is one of those cases where more is not always better. The suggested sulfur requirement of cattle is .10 - .15%. Dr. Richard Zinn at the University of California recently obtained some interesting results when he fed diets containing sulfur levels of .15 to .25%. When sulfur exceeded .20% of the diet dry matter, dry matter intake and average daily gain decreased while feed to gain increased. Also, they noticed that rib-eye area decreased. High sulfur intake can lead to decreased dry matter intake and poorer daily gain in cattle, possibly by causing a copper deficiency.
Sulfur can come from several different sources. Corn by-products such as corn gluten feed, corn steep liquor and distillers grains tend to be high in sulfur. We have known for some time that these by-products can contribute to Polioencephalomalacia (Brainers, Polio), a disease created by a thiamine deficiency. It appears that sulfur can destroy thiamine in the rumen. However, studies evaluating thiamine supplementation under sulfate induced polios are very inconsistent. Polios can also be caused by a drop in the rumen pH resulting from acidosis. This drop in rumen pH can result in the release of bacterial enzymes in the rumen that can also break down thiamine. At Land O Lakes, we typically do not include thiamine in the diet, but rather, approach the problem by stressing the importance of bunk management and recommending immediate injectable treatment of individual animals showing signs of Polio.
Source: http://www.beeflinks.com/sulfur.htm

Also see: http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54784
 

Denny

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This is new's? I've known this since distillars first came on the scene any good mineral company has a mineral to combat the defiencies and is most likely cheaper as it's zero phos due to the higher phos in distillars. Also the type of distilling and water suppley at the plant will determine your sulfer content greatly.Our local plant has a low sulfer content due to their distilling process.Land O Lakes sells feed and I'm sure distillars has had a great impact on their profit margins.
 

BRG

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We are feeding our yearling bulls a little different this year as we have always added some corn to the diet. But this year we have a different nutritionist and we are not adding any corn to the ration. They are getting last year hay and last year millet straw, corn silage(our combine corn gave us 60 bushels to the acre, so not much grain in it) vitamins/minerals and modified distillers. I was a little skeptical as they weren't really getting much for distillers, but we weighed them last week and they are gaining .25 lbs more than the ration says they should be. So I guess it works.
 

High Plains

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The fact that polio is a concern with distillers byproducts is not particularly breaking news. The feedlot industry has been keenly aware of it for a long time now and it's well undestood that this is a limiting factor.
 

Sir Loin

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High Plains

Re:
The fact that polio is a concern with distillers byproducts is not particularly breaking news.
It is to cow/calf operations, milk producers and our local co-op in my area.


The feedlot industry has been keenly aware .
That may be true but they are not feeding it 7/365 for years. They only feed it 90 - 120 days usually.
That makes is a big difference.

This may very well be why a few years back feedlots got hot over their mortality rate and threaten charge backs for dead animals. Could be they themselves were doing the killing .

SL
 

Jake

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The areas of the country that have been feeding byproducts for a decade now are very well aware of the risks of over feeding distillers without a buffer.

GREAT feed that can play a successful role in most operations.
 

George

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As with anything management is the key!

Know what you are feeding and what the good and bad is for that product!

Remember if feeding cattle was easy everyone would do it and no one would make any money from it!

My Grandfather told me a long time ago to be grateful for my problems as they creat opertunities!
 

TexasBred

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Sir Loin said:
That may be true but they are not feeding it 7/365 for years. They only feed it 90 - 120 days usually.
That makes is a big difference.

This may very well be why a few years back feedlots got hot over their mortality rate and threaten charge backs for dead animals. Could be they themselves were doing the killing .

SL

Many cow/calf operations as well as a huge majority of dairy operations that feed a TMR feed corn gluten feed and/or DDG every day of the year. As mentioned even by the Land O' Lakes rep. at the bottom of the article "management" is a key factor. When fed properly CGF and DDG are not fed as complete feeds but rather as only an ingredient mixed in with a number of other ingredients. Any level of sulphur or any other vitamin and mineral in the product is immediately diluted. Poor managers will always find something or someone besides themselves to blame for their problems.
 

WVGenetics

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TexasBred said:
Sir Loin said:
That may be true but they are not feeding it 7/365 for years. They only feed it 90 - 120 days usually.
That makes is a big difference.

This may very well be why a few years back feedlots got hot over their mortality rate and threaten charge backs for dead animals. Could be they themselves were doing the killing .

SL

Many cow/calf operations as well as a huge majority of dairy operations that feed a TMR feed corn gluten feed and/or DDG every day of the year. As mentioned even by the Land O' Lakes rep. at the bottom of the article "management" is a key factor. When fed properly CGF and DDG are not fed as complete feeds but rather as only an ingredient mixed in with a number of other ingredients. Any level of sulphur or any other vitamin and mineral in the product is immediately diluted. Poor managers will always find something or someone besides themselves to blame for their problems.


Well said!
 

Sir Loin

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Trigger tripping time.

TexasBred

Dear Bred,

You have continually shot your mouth off about corn gluten form Ethanol being ok to feed to commercial and dairy herds and blamed management of those herds for causing the death of their own cattle.
So I ask you, show me were it says and by whom, it says it is OK to feed corn gluten from Ethanol to commercial and dairy herds and how much should me feed. URL please.
Be sure not to include those sources who are talking about a feedlot operations.
Now put up or shut up.
Thank Q in advance
SL
 

WVGenetics

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Sir Loin said:
Trigger tripping time.

TexasBred

Dear Bred,

You have continually shot your mouth off about corn gluten form Ethanol being ok to feed to commercial and dairy herds and blamed management of those herds for causing the death of their own cattle.
So I ask you, show me were it says and by whom, it says it is OK to feed corn gluten from Ethanol to commercial and dairy herds and how much should me feed. URL please.
Be sure not to include those sources who are talking about a feedlot operations.
Now put up or shut up.
Thank Q in advance
SL

2007
http://jas.fass.org/content/85/6/1577.full.pdf?sid=f0ef5500-0e0c-4636-b9b4-81e58bcc9375

2006
http://jas.fass.org/content/84/4/986.full.pdf?sid=f0ef5500-0e0c-4636-b9b4-81e58bcc9375

1988
http://jas.fass.org/content/66/8/2057.full.pdf?sid=63d66a62-ade7-4822-9543-3d6e612f983b

1985
http://jas.fass.org/content/60/3/847.full.pdf?sid=63d66a62-ade7-4822-9543-3d6e612f983b

1992
http://jas.fass.org/content/70/12/3899.full.pdf?sid=63d66a62-ade7-4822-9543-3d6e612f983b

1948
http://jas.fass.org/content/7/4/434.full.pdf?sid=ceaed847-af38-44be-a2bf-dfafa7d13289


Sirloin,

Here is a sample of scientific papers reporting on the use of corn gluten as a supplement for cows eating hay or grazing stockpiled forage and its use in growing and finishing diets up to 50% of the diet. The results are consistent and show positive effects/usefulness of feeding corn gluten. The body of literature available on distillers grains is much larger but yields fairly similar results. Please remember that corn gluten is not a byproduct of distillation for ethanol. It is a byproduct of corn starch production. Distillers grains are the primary byproduct of ethanol production. These two feeds have different nutrient compositions. You should also consult the Journal of Dairy Science to find more information on the use of these products in dairy rations.


Dairy science papers

http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0022-0302/PIIS0022030203736674.pdf

http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0022-0302/PIIS0022030291782490.pdf

http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0022-0302/PIIS0022030288796459.pdf

http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0022-0302/PIIS0022030291785846.pdf
 

George

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Sir Loin if you are here to learn and possibly pass on knowledge you have, great but first you need to learn people skills!

I feel I have learned a great deal here and hope I have passed on at least a little that was helpful to some one else.

Just starting an argument for the sake of pi**ing some one off is a good way to get taken down a notch.
 

Faster horses

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It certainly is funny the different attitudes people bring to this forum.
Some just bust in and others kinda tip-toe in.
Speaking of which, I miss RAranch. His pictures are gone and he's
gone..........such a nice guy, too. Added a lot to the conversation......
I hope no one gave him a bad time. he had a great attitude, IMO.
 

Sir Loin

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Well sheeple it’s a nice rainy day here in TN for the second day in a row, so I will play on the internet today.

Now lets see what we have here.

Re:
SL: So I ask you, show me were it says and by whom, it says it is OK to feed corn gluten from Ethanol to commercial and dairy herds and how much should be feed. URL please.
Be sure not to include those sources who are talking about a feedlot operations.

First we have:
WVGenetics with a long list of URLs but no quotes.
Again, WVGenetics “ quote your source “ and provide the URL for that one source.
Stop the dog and pony show and propaganda distribution, I have already read and seen them all.
Note: It only takes one source to prove a point, so pick the “ONE“ that you think bests proves Bred’s position !

Then we have two more sheeples, George and Faster horses, engaging in personal attacks and making threats.
Which do not address the issue and are only meant to intimidate.


Try again sheeple!

SL
PS: No Dale Carnegie here, just short and not so sweet and to the point.
I am not here to “win friend and influence people” I am here to learn and do what I can to save the lives of cattle, to help improve the price of cattle and improve the public image of the cattle/beef industry as a whole and possibly save some human lives.
If you can’t deal with that, then that is your problem, not mine!!

If you can’t comprehend or will not accept the evidence I put in front of you, then try thinking on this for a while:
What if, just what if SL is right??? How much is this issue costing me??
No response necessary, just think about it!!!
SL
 

WVGenetics

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Sir Loin said:
Well sheeple it’s a nice rainy day here in TN for the second day in a row, so I will play on the internet today.

Now lets see what we have here.

Re:
SL: So I ask you, show me were it says and by whom, it says it is OK to feed corn gluten from Ethanol to commercial and dairy herds and how much should be feed. URL please.
Be sure not to include those sources who are talking about a feedlot operations.

First we have:
WVGenetics with a long list of URLs but no quotes.
Again, WVGenetics “ quote your source “ and provide the URL for that one source.
Stop the dog and pony show and propaganda distribution, I have already read and seen them all.
Note: It only takes one source to prove a point, so pick the “ONE“ that you think bests proves Bred’s position!


Then we have two more sheeples, George and Faster horses, engaging in personal attacks and making threats.
Which do not address the issue and are only meant to intimidate.


Try again sheeple!

SL
PS: No Dale Carnegie here, just short and not so sweet and to the point.
I am not here to “win friend and influence people” I am here to learn and do what I can to save the lives of cattle, to help improve the price of cattle and improve the public image of the cattle/beef industry as a whole and possibly save some human lives.
If you can’t deal with that, then that is your problem, not mine!!

If you can’t comprehend or will not accept the evidence I put in front of you, then try thinking on this for a while:
What if, just what if SL is right??? How much is this issue costing me??
No response necessary, just think about it!!!
SL

First, I should not have to read and interpret the information for you. I provided the links as a starter so that you could do the necessary homework to educate yourself about the issues that you want to discuss. I refuse to pull out a "quote" that can be taken out of perspective or made into a generalization describing a topic but may or may not tell the whole story.

Secondly, these sources are peer-reviewed, refereed scientific publications: 1) American Journal of Animal Science 2) American Journal of Dairy Science. These journals report factual scientific findings not the popular press propoganda that you alluded to. You read and interpret the findings yourself, then formulate an opinion. If you had done so instead of rejecting the premise without first educating yourself, you would realize that basing your opinion solely on one article or source is a flawed logic. [/b]
 

Sir Loin

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Re:
First, I should not have to read and interpret the information for you.
You don’t have to read or interpret anything for me as I am well acquainted with the English language.
All you have to do is put it up here as a quote and furnish the URL.
What part of that don’t you understand ?


Re:
you could do the necessary homework to educate yourself
I’ve got over 4 years of educating myself on this issue now it’s your turn.

Re:
I refuse to pull out a "quote"
I’m not surprised because what you are claiming is NOT there.
I can’t find what doesn’t exist either, nor can you!
If the Easter bunny doesn’t hide the eggs, you can’t find them!!

The truth is: What you claim can not be proven by any of you. Period!
SL
 

WVGenetics

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Sirloin,

Your ignorance is appalling yet laughable, and your condescending, argumentative responses have come to be expected. Have you read any of the papers I provided the links to? I highly doubt it! The information is all there in the abstracts for YOU to read! Shut your mouth...open your eyes, ears, and mind...you might learn something!

Good day!

WV
 

Sir Loin

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WVGenetics
You still didn’t answer the question?
What’s your problem, cat got your toung?

Repeat:
SL: So I ask you, show me were it says and by whom, it says it is OK to feed corn gluten from Ethanol to commercial and dairy herds and how much should be feed. URL please.
Be sure not to include those sources who are talking about a feedlot operations.

SL
 

Sir Loin

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WVGenetics
You still didn’t answer the question?
What’s your problem, cat got your toung?

Repeat:
SL: So I ask you, show me were it says and by whom, it says it is OK to feed corn gluten from Ethanol to commercial and dairy herds and how much should be feed. URL please.
Be sure not to include those sources who are talking about a feedlot operations.

SL
 
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