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Even you repub's must think this unfair?

nonothing

Well-known member
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent
Wed Jun 21, 6:19 PM ET



WASHINGTON - The Republican-controlled Senate smothered a proposed election-year increase in the minimum wage Wednesday, rejecting Democratic claims that it was past time to boost the $5.15 hourly pay floor that has been in effect for nearly a decade.




The 52-46 vote was eight short of the 60 needed for approval under budget rules and came one day after House Republican leaders made clear they do not intend to allow a vote on the issue, fearing it might pass.

The Senate vote marked the ninth time since 1997 that Democrats there have proposed — and Republicans have blocked — a stand-alone increase in the minimum wage. The debate fell along predictable lines.

"Americans believe that no one who works hard for a living should have to live in poverty. A job should lift you out of poverty, not keep you in it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (news, bio, voting record), D-Mass. He said a worker paid $5.15 an hour would earn $10,700 a year, "almost $6,000 below the poverty line for a family of three."

Kennedy also said lawmakers' annual pay has risen by roughly $30,000 since the last increase in the minimum wage.

Republicans said a minimum wage increase would wind up hurting the low-wage workers that Democrats said they want to help.

"For every increase you make in the minimum wage, you will cost some of them their jobs," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga.

He described the clash as a "classic debate between two very different philosophies. One philosophy that believes in the marketplace, the competitive system ... and entrepreneurship. And secondly is the argument that says the government knows better and that topdown mandates work."

The measure drew the support of 43 Democrats, eight Republicans and one independent. Four of those eight Republicans are seeking re-election in the fall.

Democrats had conceded in advance that this attempt to raise the minimum wage would fare no better than their previous attempts. At the same time, they have made clear in recent days they hope to gain support in the coming midterm elections by stressing the issue. Organized labor supports the legislation, and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said that contrary to some impressions, most minimum wage workers are adults, not teenagers, and many of them are women.

"When the Democrats control the Senate, one of the first pieces of legislation we'll see is an increase in the minimum wage," said Kennedy.

His proposal would have increased the minimum wage to $5.85 beginning 60 days after the legislation was enacted; to $6.55 one year later; and to $7.25 a year after that. He said inflation has eroded the value of the current $5.15 minimum wage by 20 percent.

With the help of a few rebellious Republicans, House Democrats on the House Appropriations Committee succeeded in attaching a minimum wage increase last week to legislation providing funding for federal social programs. Fearing that the House would pass the measure with the increase intact, the GOP leadership swiftly decided to sidetrack the entire bill.

"I am opposed to it, and I think a vast majority of our (rank and file) is opposed to it," House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Tuesday.

Pressed by reporters, he said, "There are limits to my willingness to just throw anything out on the floor."

On Wednesday, his spokesman, Kevin Madden, said Boehner has told fellow Republicans "the House will have to deal with this some way." He said no decisions had been made.

While Democrats depend on organized labor to win elections, Republicans are closely aligned with business interests that oppose any increase in the federal wage floor or would like changes in the current system.

Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, offered an alternative that proposed a minimum wage increase of $1.10 over 18 months, in two steps.

The increase was coupled with a variety of provisions offering regulatory or tax relief to small businesses, including one to exempt enterprises with less than $1 million in annual receipts from the federal wage and hour law entirely. The current exemption level is $500,000, and a Republican document noted the amount had "lagged behind inflation."

Additionally, Republicans proposed a system of optional "flextime" for workers, a step that Enzi said would allow employees, at their discretion, to work more than 40 hours one week in exchange for more time off the next. Unions generally oppose such initiatives, and the Republican plan drew 45 votes, with 53 in opposition


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060621/ap_on_go_co/minimum_wage

$5.15,that is incredible......a big mac costs more....9 years no raise,no wonder some wont work,where is the incentive......Frankly if your company cant make it paying it's employees a few dollers more than $5.15 an hour,it should fold up anyway.......
 

Brad S

Well-known member
well nonpthing, contrary to Democratic lies, Republicans don't favor strife for the poor. But let's step out of the stupid zone for a minute. Is there no negative consequence to the increased minimum wage? If not, heyll yes, let's increase the minimum wage to a a cofortable $23/hr. The fact is, increasing the minimum wage decreases jobs from those perported to help.


I view minimum wage as an apprentice situation, no its not sustaining for the worker, but a free market balances the unpleasantness between the underpaid worker and the employer hiring an untrained unproven worker. Once a worker has proven the ability to merely show up for work, minimum wage has no effect on their wages because they can command more.


more and more it seems like liberals and conservatives have nothing in common, and this minimum wage stuff is just another indication of this. Liberals say, let's just pass a law - the business owner is 4 times more likely to be a Republican and its just plain fun to foist more regulation on Republicans. This is just populist mumbojumbo hoping to arouse 51% to tyranize 49%.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Brad S said:
well nonpthing, contrary to Democratic lies, Republicans don't favor strife for the poor. But let's step out of the stupid zone for a minute. Is there no negative consequence to the increased minimum wage? If not, heyll yes, let's increase the minimum wage to a a cofortable $23/hr. The fact is, increasing the minimum wage decreases jobs from those perported to help.


I view minimum wage as an apprentice situation, no its not sustaining for the worker, but a free market balances the unpleasantness between the underpaid worker and the employer hiring an untrained unproven worker. Once a worker has proven the ability to merely show up for work, minimum wage has no effect on their wages because they can command more.


more and more it seems like liberals and conservatives have nothing in common, and this minimum wage stuff is just another indication of this. Liberals say, let's just pass a law - the business owner is 4 times more likely to be a Republican and its just plain fun to foist more regulation on Republicans. This is just populist mumbojumbo hoping to arouse 51% to tyranize 49%.


BradS,it has been 9 years at the same rate(even prisoners got raises in last nine years)..And every year it is voted down.I am pretty sure most repub's postions have had pay raises over the last nine years....yes lets step out of the stupid zone...If a bussiness cannot run on anything higher then $5.15 an hour,it may be time to shut it down....People complain about lazy welfare folks,but they probably make more than minumun wage...Command more?Are you kidding me?get out and see who is making this wage and i know that no apprentice is working for min wage...
 

Tap

Well-known member
Evidently the free market has said that some will work for minimum wage. If not, then why are these people taking minimum wage jobs? No, it is not enough to live on completely, so not very many must be doing it.

Aren't a lot of these jobs ones that have tips added on the side.
 

Cal

Well-known member
For the kids working in fast food that can't show up on time, for the ones working at the car wash who do a half-ass job, for the ones with pierced tongues, noses, eyebrows, and pants hanging below their ass, the druggers and drunks, and all of the others that need to be kept out of the public eye; let's go ahead and LOWER the minimum wage. They're barely worth an employers time as is.

Just curious, nonothing, I don't care what the Canadian minimum wage is, so why are you concerned with what the US minimum wage is?
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Good point, Cal.

I'm getting so I dread going into someplace where young people wait on me (or are supposed to). I like young people, but this generation is
something else. However, the old Coast-to-Coast store in Miles City
will have none of that. If a young person waits on you, you can bet he
does a good job. They must drill into them how important customer
service is. You don't walk around in that store wondering where someone is that can help you. You've been asked at least 3 times before you
leave.

Interesting that they are right across the street from Wal-mart and
their business has grown steadily. You can get a lot of stuff there and
know how to use it when you leave, if you didn't know before. It is
a family-owned store. They have sure met and EXCEEDED Wal-marts
competition. There are always cars in the parking lot.

For some reason, I would bet they pay their employees more than Wal-mart pays theirs, because it seems to me that many of the help
has been there for years. They might start them at minimum wage, but
I bet they earn more quickly.

Isn't that the purpose of minimum wage? You gotta start somewhere.
And we all know that what the store pays out, consumers pay in, or the
store won't be there long.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
But then the Rep's in DC would have to pay their house staff, maids, and illegal baby sitters more if the wage went up..


DUH...no wonder it never passes!!!!
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
Since the democrats are so anxious to increase the minimum wage, clearly to gain votes in the elections, would they please tell us how many people are working at the $5.15 per hour rate?

I don't know of a single person, old goat, teenager, illegal or anyone else that is working for the minimum wage.

Tell us so we will all know, not just political rhetoric.
 

BBJ

Well-known member
Brad S you are truely a big oil, :nod: big corporation, :nod: war mongering, :nod: rich, :nod: white Republican. :lol2: ..... :lol: ....how dare you suggest we only go up to $23.00 /hr. :mad: You know as well as I do that it's dang hard to live comfortably on that amount. :lol: I agree we need to raise the minimum wage and heres the BEST solution to how high we should go.

Let the people decide. :lol2: No not by elections but rather by letting the people that hold minimum wage positions decide how much is enough. They know how much it takes to live "their" life comfortably and we all know that amount vaires from person to person. That would be unfair for us or anybody else to tell them how little they can make.

:p
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
nonothing said:
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent
Wed Jun 21, 6:19 PM ET


The Senate vote marked the ninth time since 1997 that Democrats there have proposed — and Republicans have blocked — a stand-alone increase in the minimum wage. The debate fell along predictable lines.

Republicans said a minimum wage increase would wind up hurting the low-wage workers that Democrats said they want to help.

"For every increase you make in the minimum wage, you will cost some of them their jobs," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga.

He described the clash as a "classic debate between two very different philosophies. One philosophy that believes in the marketplace, the competitive system ... and entrepreneurship. And secondly is the argument that says the government knows better and that topdown mandates work."


While Democrats depend on organized labor to win elections,

Republicans are closely aligned with business interests that oppose any increase in the federal wage floor or would like changes in the current system.



Additionally, Republicans proposed a system of optional "flextime" for workers, a step that Enzi said would allow employees, at their discretion, to work more than 40 hours one week in exchange for more time off the next. Unions generally oppose such initiatives, and the Republican plan drew 45 votes, with 53 in opposition


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060621/ap_on_go_co/minimum_wage

This reenforces my point that any citizen, before voting, should determine which of the two basic philosophies they support. When the chicken comes home to roost, and the dust has all been settled, the major policy-making decisions all fall right down party-line votes. The feely-good, broad-minded, "I am an Independent, I vote for the person not the party" sounds so sophisticated and worldly, and yet accomplishes so little.

Republicans like myself would prefer no minimum wage period. That isn't because we don't want to pay workers a fair wage, it is because we don't want to be told by some bureaucrat that we have to pay a certain amount. All of my crew makes considerably more than minimum wage, but it is because they are good at what they do and deserve to be compensated accordingly.
 

passin thru

Well-known member
Show me a person that gets minimum wage their whole life and I'll show you a person who isn't worth minimum wage.

Minimum wage is only a stepping stone..............if you think otherwise you have no faith in mankind in bettering themselves without help from good ole uncle Sam
 

Mike

Well-known member
I have hired people who were overpaid at minimum wage. Seriously.

There should be no minimum whatsoever. If he's not worth the minimum or more to me...........I don't need him.

A good worker can get the pay he is entitled to.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Alberta has the lowest minimun wage in Canada and we have by far the best economy with jobs for anyone that wants one.
Our economy is so strong that I dont know of anybody who is working for minimun wage.
But delivering pizza, newspapers or mowing lawns should not be a career. Its a summer job for kids.
 

BBJ

Well-known member
The feely-good, broad-minded, "I am an Independent, I vote for the person not the party" sounds so sophisticated and wordly, and yet accomplishes so little.

Soapweed I couldn't agree more.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
BBJ said:
The feely-good, broad-minded, "I am an Independent, I vote for the person not the party" sounds so sophisticated and wordly, and yet accomplishes so little.

Soapweed I couldn't agree more.

I did spell "worldly" wrong, but did go back and correct it. By the way, thanks for agreeing with me. :wink:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Mike said:
I have hired people who were overpaid at minimum wage. Seriously.

There should be no minimum whatsoever. If he's not worth the minimum or more to me...........I don't need him.

A good worker can get the pay he is entitled to.

I would like to see politicians (Senators and Congressmen) get paid on a multiple of the AVERAGE wage in America minus the top 5% and the bottom 5% instead of what they think they are worth.

Then we might see some good movement in wages.

Its all in the economics of it.

If this were done, the Congress would have had a pay cut instead of a couple of pay increases.
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
Most every job around here starts at over 6 bucks an hour now. When we are looking for help we have basically found that you have to look at what two places pay. 1) Walmart and 2) Tyson/IBP. If you are not willing to compete with those two places for wages than you are not going to get ANYONE to work for you. And I don't mean starting wages. 10-11 an hour is about what you have to pay for farm labor around here if you are not looking to hire the guy who has been in and out of jail his whole life, has serisou substane abuse problems or is just not all there. None of these guys are worth 5 bucks an hour.Maybe for one or two days but once they get their check it is off to the general store and to the liquor section...

Again, the simplest stock boy job at the grovery store is paying wll over min. wage around here... The statistics I last heard about min wage was that to increase the amount to say, 6 dollars would have almost zero affect on income for the bottom 1%. If someone is willing to work for 5 bucks an hour, maybe they should be allowed to? I know folks on sallery that are getting paid 4 bucks an hour basically and they love their jobs and would do it for less... These are typically cowboys. I have to think there had to be some benis, a car, a house or something but even with them added in that area it would be below mini.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
nonothing said:
I guess I was wrong,You repub's thinks its ok..Have a good day all.Sorry if i step on toes again....

Let me make this simple
Do you want to pay $10 for a Big Mac? Nobody else does either. If you up the minimun wage you just destroy jobs and hurt the poor even more.
 

don

Well-known member
Do you want to pay $10 for a Big Mac?

why not figure out how much of the cost of the big mac is paid to the minimum wage earners and then increase that portion of the cost by 20% and see how little the price of the hamburger has to go up to cover it? probably take a few 20% increases to get up to $10
 
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