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Experts Say WH Lied to Justify Drilling Moratorium

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Experts Say White House 'Misrepresented' Views to Justify Drilling Moratorium

The seven experts, recommended by the National Academy of Engineering, say Interior Secretary Ken Salazar modified their report last month, after they signed it, to include two paragraphs calling for the moratorium on existing drilling and new permits


The seven experts who advised President Obama on how to deal with offshore drilling safety after the Deepwater Horizon explosion are accusing his administration of misrepresenting their views to make it appear that they supported a six-month drilling moratorium -- something they actually oppose.

The experts, recommended by the National Academy of Engineering, say Interior Secretary Ken Salazar modified their report last month, after they signed it, to include two paragraphs calling for the moratorium on existing drilling and new permits.

Salazar's report to Obama said a panel of seven experts "peer reviewed" his recommendations, which included a six-month moratorium on permits for new wells being drilled using floating rigs and an immediate halt to drilling operations.

"None of us actually reviewed the memorandum as it is in the report," oil expert Ken Arnold told Fox News. "What was in the report at the time it was reviewed was quite a bit different in its impact to what there is now. So we wanted to distance ourselves from that recommendation."

Salazar apologized to those experts Thursday.

"The experts who are involved in crafting the report gave us their recommendation and their input and I very much appreciate those recommendations," he said. "It was not their decision on the moratorium. It was my decision and the president's decision to move forward."

In a letter the experts sent to Salazar, they said his primary recommendation "misrepresents" their position and that halting the drilling is actually a bad idea.

The oil rig explosion occurred while the well was being shut down – a move that is much more dangerous than continuing ongoing drilling, they said.

They also said that because the floating rigs are scarce and in high demand worldwide, they will not simply sit in the Gulf idle for six months. The rigs will go to the North Sea and West Africa, possibly preventing the U.S. from being able to resume drilling for years.

They also said the best and most advanced rigs will be the first to go, leaving the U.S. with the older and potentially less safe rights operating in the nation's coastal waters.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/10/experts-say-obama-misrepresented-views-justify-offshore-drilling-ban/
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Oil spill may be twice as bad as estimates

Published On Fri Jun 11 2010
SETH BORENSTEINand HARRY R. WEBER
Associated Press Writers
HOUSTON — New numbers showing the amount of oil gushing from a well in the Gulf of Mexico may be double as much as previously thought means the crude is likely to travel farther away, threatening more birds, fishand other wildlife that call the fragile waters their home, scientists said Friday.

The new figures could mean 42 million gallons to more than 100 million gallons of oil have already fouled the Gulf’s delicate ecosystemand are affecting people who live, workand play along the coast from Louisiana to Florida —and perhaps beyond.

Johanns says oil spill is boosting cap-and-trade

By Roger Bluhm
Published: Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:10 AM CDT
The North Platte Telegraph

In a wide-ranging session, U.S. Sen. Mike Johanns of Nebraska answered questions from the Nebraska Cattlemen on Friday.

Topics ranged from the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico to the Tea Party.

"I informed people in town hall meetings from Chappell to Mullen around Easter that I thought cap-and-trade was dead," Johanns said. "I was wrong. It's gained new life and it comes from that mess in the gulf."

The senator said cap-and-trade has already passed in the House and that if it passes in any form in the Senate, it will become a reality.

"The problem is they want to take 60 million acres of production away from farmers and make it profitable for them to plant trees," Johanns said. "The problem is, it's not Omaha warming or Nebraska warming or even U.S. warming.

"It's global warming and if nations like Brazil and China aren't going to do something like cap-and-trade, than it's not going to work and we're taking productive land away from farmers for no reason."

Johanns also addressed the oil spill itself.

"No matter what has been tried, the experts have said, we've tried this on land, but we have no idea how it's going to work 5,000 feet below the surface," Johanns said. "If you don't know, you shouldn't be allowed to drill 5,000 feet below the surface.

"Ultimately, it's going to take a replacement well to end the spill and I believe there's going to have to be a lot of cleanup before it's fixed."
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Johanns also addressed the oil spill itself.

"No matter what has been tried, the experts have said, we've tried this on land, but we have no idea how it's going to work 5,000 feet below the surface," Johanns said. "If you don't know, you shouldn't be allowed to drill 5,000 feet below the surface.

This kind of sounds to me like your Senator Johanns agrees with the moratorium until these oil companies can prove they have their sh*t together- and know what they are doing....

And I think he is also correct on the negative impact BP has made for the oil industry- and the effect it will create on future energy policy decisions...

BP's playing ring around the rosey- and not wanting to pick up costs til the courts assess blame/damages between them, Halliburton, Deepwater Horizon, etal (10 years from now :???: ) is throwing a dark cloud over the oil industry- and especially off shore drilling...
They are being murdered on the blogs (both left and right wing) and especially on the average person on the street sites like Facebook...
 

don

Well-known member
the moratorium is probably a good thing because it's becoming more evident that bp has been lying since the blowout and nobody has yet determined what is really going on. it's obvious the flow rate has been grossly understated by the company and there is a growing suspicion that the casing has been compromised so this flow may become totally uncontrollable. as time goes on it will become more evident just how far from the truth bp has been.
 

Liveoak

Well-known member
The moratorium should be on BP and BP alone. They have a long running history of cutting corners that have resulted in lives lost and shut downs. The rest of the industry shouldn't be punished. Those that are for a blanket shut down of offshore drilling will be crying as soon as the prices at the pump double!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Johanns also addressed the oil spill itself.

"No matter what has been tried, the experts have said, we've tried this on land, but we have no idea how it's going to work 5,000 feet below the surface," Johanns said. "If you don't know, you shouldn't be allowed to drill 5,000 feet below the surface.

This kind of sounds to me like your Senator Johanns agrees with the moratorium until these oil companies can prove they have their sh*t together- and know what they are doing....

And I think he is also correct on the negative impact BP has made for the oil industry- and the effect it will create on future energy policy decisions...

BP's playing ring around the rosey- and not wanting to pick up costs til the courts assess blame/damages between them, Halliburton, Deepwater Horizon, etal (10 years from now :???: ) is throwing a dark cloud over the oil industry- and especially off shore drilling...
They are being murdered on the blogs (both left and right wing) and especially on the average person on the street sites like Facebook...

That's not the point of the article. The point is that his administration is, contrary to promises of accountablity and transparancy, in effect lying to us. This is like cooking the books. Is that consistent with his campaign promises?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
"The experts who are involved in crafting the report gave us their recommendation and their input and I very much appreciate those recommendations," he said. "It was not their decision on the moratorium. It was my decision and the president's decision to move forward."

Sounds like Johanns approves of the decision they say they made...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
don said:
the moratorium is probably a good thing because it's becoming more evident that bp has been lying since the blowout and nobody has yet determined what is really going on. it's obvious the flow rate has been grossly understated by the company and there is a growing suspicion that the casing has been compromised so this flow may become totally uncontrollable. as time goes on it will become more evident just how far from the truth bp has been.

don, did you see the article I posted that showed the administration knew the expected flow within days of the disaster?

but there was need to verify the data with the company. Even someone as dumb as Palin realizes that.

PALIN: No, I have some ideas, and I think a lot of other Americans have some ideas, especially those who have some experience working with these oil companies and knowing that there is such a need to verify the information that oil execs would be giving a public official because the oil executive's perception of reality, really, is different than a public official's would be.

In the case of this spill, to see now that we're on day 54 and the Obama administration is just now deciding that they will meet with BP is a pretty atrocious thing to have to realize because, Greta, what this has resulted in is an industry player like BP has been put in the position, this player with astronomical liability exposure, gets to define the facts of the spill, instead of from day one, working together, CEO to CEO level, the president and Hayward and board members of BP working together to define what the facts are in this situation.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
"The experts who are involved in crafting the report gave us their recommendation and their input and I very much appreciate those recommendations," he said. "It was not their decision on the moratorium. It was my decision and the president's decision to move forward."

Sounds like Johanns approves of the decision they say they made...

Do you approve of the administration changing the documents post signatures?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
"The experts who are involved in crafting the report gave us their recommendation and their input and I very much appreciate those recommendations," he said. "It was not their decision on the moratorium. It was my decision and the president's decision to move forward."
Sounds like Johanns approves of the decision they say they made...
Do you approve of the administration changing the documents post signatures?

As long as its clear that Salazar and the Dept. made the changes and recommendations... I'd have to read the entire report, but this sounds to me like a bunch of "experts" now trying to distance themselves from something they know is going toget them heavy flak from an industry that butters their bread....

My biggest concern now is that before they do anything else they try and root out the years of corruption that has built into the Minerals Management Service - and make some major changes there before continuing forward...

Rule change helpedBP on Gulf project

Updated: Wednesday, 05 May 2010, 7:40 PM CDT Published : Wednesday, 05 May 2010, 7:40 PM CDT

A rule change two years ago by the federal agency that regulates offshore oil rigs allowedBP to avoid filing a plan specifically for handling a major spill from an uncontrolled blowout at its Deepwater Horizon project — exactly the kind of disaster now unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico. Oil rig operators generally are required to submit a detailed "blowout scenario."

But the federal Minerals Management Service issued a notice in 2008 that exempted somedrilling projects in the Gulf under certain conditions. BP met those conditions, according to MMS, and as a result, the oil company had no plan written specifically for the Deepwater Horizon project, an Associated Press review of government and industry documents found.

IG Report on MMS Corruption

Posted on: May 27, 2010 9:23 AM, by Ed Brayton

Politico has published a report from the Inspector General of the Interior Department about the Minerals Management Service and their far-too-close relationship with the oil industry. All of the things discussed in the report took place prior to 2007, but it still provides an excellent picture of what goes on in regulatory agencies throughout the government.

The report includes employees of MMS taking rides to sporting events on private jets owned by the oil companies, the routine giving of expensive gifts to regulators by oil companies, including hunting and fishing trips.
And all of this was at the Lake Charles MMS office -- the one that handles the Gulf of Mexico directly.

Here's one of the more serious problems uncovered in the report: Finally, we determined that between June and July 2008, an MMS inspector conducted four inspections on IOC platforms while in the process of negotiating and later accepting employment with the company. IOC is the Island Operating Company.

And the people in charge regard this as routine and normal: We showed MMS Lake Charles District Manager Larry Williamson nine photos named, "LSU football pictures," that we discovered on a former MMS inspector's computer. Williamson identified two MMS inspectors in the pictures, which showed tailgating festivities at the Peach Bowl game.

According to Williamson, many of the MMS inspectors had worked for the oil and gas industry and continued to be friends with industry representatives. "Obviously, we're all oil industry," he said. "We're all from the same part of the country. Almost all of our inspectors have worked for oil companies out on these same platforms. They grew up in the same towns. Some of these people, they've been friends with all their life. They've been with these people since they were kids. They've hunted together. They fish together. They skeet shoot together ....They do this all the time."

That 2005 Peach Bowl game was paid for by the oil company and the employees were flown to it on the company's private jet. So we have people from the oil companies working as regulators, accepting expensive gifts from those companies, not complying with ethics requirements to report those gifts, and then negotiating new jobs with the oil companies after they leave their government job.

Gosh, I can't imagine how an oil companygets waivers from environmental regulations, can you?
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
President Obama on April 2, 2010
I don’t agree with the notion that we shouldn’t do anything. It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore

Mr. Obama, shortly after taking office, had assigned Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to clean up the agency, the Minerals Management Service. The office’s history of corruption and coziness with the industry it was supposed to regulate had been the subject of years of scathing reports by government auditors, lurid headlines and a score of Congressional hearings.

But the promised reforms of the agency were slow to arrive, and the subject of the minerals service never came up at the meetings leading to the new drilling policy, according to a senior administration official involved in the discussions.

“I don’t recall a conversation on how the offshore drilling and M.M.S. issues overlapped,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss confidential deliberations involving the president.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/31/us/politics/31drill.html


Looks like someone is trying to cover thier behind.

They knew of the problems in the MMS before and did nothing to change the situation. obama says there is no problem with oil spills from offshore, so they expand offshore drilling and issue a permit to BP, without doing an environmental assesment and approve a plan that did not exist.


And all this is Bush's fault. Got it.

So what do they do, they issue more permits under the same flawed system.


MMS Approved 27 Gulf Drilling Operations After BP Disaster
26 Were Exempted From Environmental Review, Including Two to BP

Salazar's "Moratorium" on New Drilling Permits Allows Continuation of the Same Flawed
Environmental Exemption Process that Allowed the BP Catastrophe

TUCSON, Ariz.— Even as the BP drilling explosion which killed eleven people continues to gush hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil per day into the Gulf of Mexico, the U.S. Department of Interior’s Minerals Management Service (MMS) has continued to exempt dangerous new drilling operations from environmental review. Twenty-seven new offshore drilling projects have been approved since April 20, 2010; twenty-six under the same environmental review exemption used to approve the disastrous BP drilling that is fouling the Gulf and its wildlife.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=65883
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Mr. Obama, shortly after taking office, had assigned Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to clean up the agency, the Minerals Management Service. The office’s history of corruptionand coziness with the industry it was supposed to regulate had been the subject of years of scathing reports by government auditors, lurid headlinesand a score of Congressional hearings.

You expect an awful lot as of yesterday----You don't clean up years and years of corruption in an agency overnight- or in 16 months...

But it looks like Salazar is going to break up the agency into separate parts and take a run at cleaning it up- Investigations take time- and changing an entire Agency will not be easy....I don't envy him his task...

In September 2008, reports by the Inspector Generalof the Interior Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a dozenofficialsof the MMSof unethical and criminal conduct in the performanceof their duties.
The investigation found MMS employees had taken drugs and had sex with energy company representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays amid "a cultureof ethical failure", according to the investigation.

The New York Times's summary states the investigation revealed "a dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflictsof interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere for muchof the Bush administration’s watch."

A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industryofficials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies. Staffers also used government computers to view pornography.

In 2009 the regional supervisorof the Gulf region for MMS pled guilty and was sentenced to a year's probation in federal court for lying about receiving gifts from anoffshore drilling contractor. "This deeply disturbing report is further evidenceof the cozy relationship between MMS and the oil and gas industry," Salazar said

Revolving door with industry
The Project On Government Oversight (POGO) alleges that MMS has suffered from a systemic revolving doorproblem between the Departmentof Interior and the oil and gas industries.

Thirteen months after departing as MMS director, Bush appointee Randall Luthibecame presidentof the National Oceans Industries Association(NOIA) whose mission is to "to secure reliable access and a favorable regulatory and economic environment for the companies that develop the nation's valuableoffshore energy resources in an environmentally responsible manner."

Luthi succeeded Tom Fry, who was MMS director under the Clinton administration. Luthi and Fry represented precisely the industries their agency was tasked with being a watchdog over. Lower level administrators influencing MMS have also gone on to work for the companies they once regulated:

Paul Stang served as Regional Supervisor for Leasing and Environment for MMS, then went to work for Shell Oil Company in 2007 on its Arctic Ocean programs.

Greg Smith served as the Deputy Program Managerof the Royalities in Kind (RIK) program between 2001 and 2004. Thereafter until 2007 he was directorof RIK.
]POGO's report states that when he was working on the RIK program, Smith received $30,000 from Geomatrix, an oil industry consulting firm. After leaving government, Smith went to work for Tenaska Marketing Ventures, described on their website as a "leading marketerof natural gas in North America".

Jimmy Mayberry served as Special Assistant to the Associate Directorof Minerals Revenue Management (MRM), managed by MMS, from 2000 to January 2003. After he left, he created an energy consulting company that was awarded an MMS contract via a rigged bid. He was convicted along with a former MMS coworker Milton Dial who also came to work at the company. Both were found guiltyof felony violationof conflictof interest law.

L. Poe Leggette served as Assistant Solicitor for DOI for over a decade, advising the MMS on their onshore andoffshore energy programs, as well as royalty valuation issues. He now heads the Western Lands and Energy Practice at Fulbright & Jaworski whose clients are the oil and gas industries. [/quote]


Role in 2010 BP Oil Spill
Among MMS's regulatory decisions contributing to the 2010 BP oil spill:

March 2008 - The mineral rights to drill for oil were purchased by BP at the MMS's Lease Sale #206, held at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans.

MMS's 2009 decision that acoustically-controlled shut-off valve (BOP) would not be required as a last resort against underwater spills at the site.

MMS's failure to suggest other “fail-safe” mechanisms after a 2004 report raised questions about the reliabilityof the electrical remote-control devices.

Prior to DirectorBirnbaum's appointment, MMS granted a categorical exclusion waiver on April 6, 2009 to BP exempting it from National Environmental Policy Act's requirements including a detailed environmental analysis, concluding the spill risk in that partof the Gulf was “minimal or nonexistent.” Such NEPA waivers have become routine at MMS, and the Interior department approves 250 to 400 per year for Gulfof Mexico projects.

MMS gave permission to BP and dozensof other oil companies to drill in the Gulfof Mexico without first getting required permits from another agency (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA) that assesses threats to endangered species — and despite strong warnings from NOAA about the impact the drilling was likely to have on the gulf. Those approvals, federal records show, include one for the well drilled by the Deepwater Horizon rig, which exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers and resulting in thousandsof barrelsof oil spilling into the gulf each day.

MMS routinely overruled its staff biologists and engineers who raised concerns about the safety and the environmental impactof drilling proposals in the Gulf and in Alaska.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I wouldn't expect it to be cleaned up over night. But they knew of the problems, and still expanded the drilling, knowing the problems.

If they were serious about cleaning it up, they would have placed a moratorium on drilling permits, until they had made some changes.

But then again, obama did say there was no problem with offshore spills. They did investigate before they expanded drilling, didn't they?

I guess that's what BP's campaign contributions were for.

As for the amount of time it takes to come up with policy or programs....

they had plenty of time to full investigate how obamacare and the stimulus bill would affect the Country.

They probably could have come up with enough time to revise the procedures at MMS, if had been that high on their priority list.

The blame cannot be put solely on the obama adminstration or the Bush administration.

Blame is being shifted to the Bush administration by the Dems/obama, becasue they want to distance themselves from the fact that they are just as responsible. That's what happens when a disaster like this is politicized.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
The Revolving Door between the oil industy and MMS employees mirrors almost identically the Revolving Door between the Packing Industry/Lobby and the USDA employees...Both have became deeply rooted over the past 20 years....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
No investigation is needed to determine if monthly inspections were carried out. Just pull the paperwork. If they were not done, then MMS was not following the regulations. For some reason the obama adminstration will not release the inspection reports, or even the frequency of inspections.

We do know that the inspections were carried out under the Bush administration, although, maybe not as often as they were supposed to be. We know this through the infractions/violations that the rig was assessed.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wirestory?id=10661614&page=1

Hasn't the Senate been having hearings on this lately. Why not just ask who signed off on the drilling plan? How did they certify the testing that was done on the BOP, etc. How did they certify that the testing was legit and not falsified?



Oldtimer said:
The Revolving Door between the oil industy and MMS employees mirrors almost identically the Revolving Door between the Packing Industry/Lobby and the USDA employees...Both have became deeply rooted over the past 20 years....

Yes, I realize that, did you read what I posted the other day about Regulatory capture?

hypocritexposer said:
OT, here's an article I came across this morning. Unbeknownst to me, there is a term in economics that describes one aspect of what I was trying to explain. You'll be able to use it when discussing the USDA and packers.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=467556#467556



the bigger Government gets, you will see more of it.

Regulatory capture
Gamekeeper turns poacher or, at least, helps poacher. The theory of regulatory capture was set out by Richard Posner, an economist and lawyer at the University of Chicago, who argued that “REGULATION is not about the public interest at all, but is a process, by which interest groups seek to promote their private interest ... Over time, regulatory agencies come to be dominated by the industries regulated.” Most economists are less extreme, arguing that regulation often does good but is always at RISK of being captured by the regulated firms.

http://www.economist.com/research/economics/alphabetic.cfm?letter=R


Cap and Trade will work the same.
Banking?
Housing?

you might be interested in this article, OT. It uses Financial Regulations to illustrate the point.

The Government’s Elite and Regulatory Capture
June 11, 2010, 2:00 pm
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/the-governments-elite-and-regulatory-capture/?src=busln
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
OT, I just came across another story that I was going to post separately, but it is also another example of the "revolving door" you spoke of or the regulatory capture, that I mentioned.


Journalism and news.

If you forward this video (HBO doc., "For Neda") to the 46min. mark (2 min. segment afterwards), you will find Jared Cohen, Dept. of State, speaking about getting in contact with Youtube and requesting that they reschedule their maintenance downtime, to a more Iran friendly time. This was during the protesting in Iran, and the death of Neda.

This should be worrisome, no matter what side of the Iran issue you stand, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F48SinuEHIk
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
For some reason the obama adminstration will not release the inspection reports, or even the frequency of inspections.

Hmmm. I thought this administration was going to be all about transparency.

I'm becoming disillusioned.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
hypocritexposer said:
For some reason the obama adminstration will not release the inspection reports, or even the frequency of inspections.

Hmmm. I thought this administration was going to be all about transparency.

I'm becoming disillusioned.

I can't saying I'm becoming "disillusioned" because I was illusioned enough early on to know this would happen. :shock:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
Whitewing said:
hypocritexposer said:
For some reason the obama adminstration will not release the inspection reports, or even the frequency of inspections.

Hmmm. I thought this administration was going to be all about transparency.

I'm becoming disillusioned.

I can't saying I'm becoming "disillusioned" because I was illusioned enough early on to know this would happen. :shock:

Meet the Press discusses the leadership gap and Carly Fiorina asks why government hasn't been effective in regulating the oil industry.

Carly also debates Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz on the effectiveness and efficiency of big Government.

Debbie says it's Bush's fault.

Sounds like an OT/Hypo debate. :lol:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/18424744#37668983

Let us know who you think wins after watching. :wink:
 
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