• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Explain how lost trade helps concentration

Murgen

Well-known member
bse tester's $20 test could have solved this problem but it obviously doesn't play well for the big player's concentration game.

Econ, please explain your reasoning on how lost billions has helped in the concentration game.

Foreign packers have gained a foothold in the Export markets.

Opportunity cost of not exporting higher value cuts, with a substantially higher margin.

Lower number of independent packing plants in the US, increase of independent slaughter capacity in Canada.

Just to name a few.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Which packer wasn't able to innovate and fulfill thier customer's needs because of a policy of more untruth and thus compete more effectively against the big boys?

Come on, Murgen. You don't need to ask these questions.

This setup isn't for the free markets. Its for the chosen.

In the concentration game it is sometimes more advantageous to not make money if your competitors can't either.

It is the weed out.
 

don

Well-known member
murgen: please explain your reasoning on how lost billions has helped in the concentration game.


look to see who lost the billions and you'll understand how concentration was accelerated.
 

Mike

Well-known member
don said:
murgen: please explain your reasoning on how lost billions has helped in the concentration game.


look to see who lost the billions and you'll understand how concentration was accelerated.

Bingo. Local economies take a hit every time the ranchers do also.
 

Jason

Well-known member
don said:
murgen: please explain your reasoning on how lost billions has helped in the concentration game.


look to see who lost the billions and you'll understand how concentration was accelerated.

Except in Canada where exports were halted and producers took the hit, new packing ventures have risen.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Jason said:
don said:
murgen: please explain your reasoning on how lost billions has helped in the concentration game.


look to see who lost the billions and you'll understand how concentration was accelerated.

Except in Canada where exports were halted and producers took the hit, new packing ventures have risen.

How much more chain space is actually available Jason?

Most of the new ones were still in the "Proposal" stage are far as I saw.

Just wait until the Big-Boys start buying them out. You ain't seen concentration yet.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Mike said:
Jason said:
don said:
murgen: please explain your reasoning on how lost billions has helped in the concentration game.


look to see who lost the billions and you'll understand how concentration was accelerated.

Except in Canada where exports were halted and producers took the hit, new packing ventures have risen.

How much more chain space is actually available Jason?

Most of the new ones were still in the "Proposal" stage are far as I saw.

Just wait until the Big-Boys start buying them out. You ain't seen concentration yet.
So what's the answer Mike?

Canadian producers and investors are putting money into these efforts and all we hear especially from some on this site is how the big boys are going to take them over and somehow it is Canadians fault? These are AMERICAN companies.
 

Jason

Well-known member
A cattle buyer friend of mine went to Ontario for his annual holliday...he went to one of the regular auctions there as they sell many fat or nearly fat cattle there. Better Beef ((Cargill) supposedly the biggest can buy out the rest) was only able to buy 200 of the 500 offered. 4 other packing interests outbid them on the rest of the cattle.
 

blackjack

Well-known member
...there is a new plant just north of calgary mike that is close to starting up... small in comparison to the tyson plant in brooks or the cargill plant in high river but never the less has backing by some larger feedlots here in alberta which relied on the usa packing plants to provide competetion...only time i guess will tell if it survives...though i would have preferred to see a larger grassroot producer investment in our industry... i can see our government is leading the route towards the integration(sp) of the chain... whether we like it or not when goverment policy is helping big business control the price on the farm... the mentality of thinking of being a independent rancher is quickly coming to a end...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Bill said:
Mike said:
Jason said:
Except in Canada where exports were halted and producers took the hit, new packing ventures have risen.

How much more chain space is actually available Jason?

Most of the new ones were still in the "Proposal" stage are far as I saw.

Just wait until the Big-Boys start buying them out. You ain't seen concentration yet.
So what's the answer Mike?

Canadian producers and investors are putting money into these efforts and all we hear especially from some on this site is how the big boys are going to take them over and somehow it is Canadians fault? These are AMERICAN companies.

Make a level playing field for businesses large and small. Instead of "Corporate Welfare" for the big corps...make low-interest small business loans to encourage entrepreneurs.

My hope is for high transportation costs to make food businesses more localized once again.

They may be "American" companies Bill, but you can't hang the greed on every American. Until guvment steps in like they used to, the big money grab still goes on............................

No, it's not the Canadians fault, but neither is it ours/mine.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Bill, "Canadian producers and investors are putting money into these efforts and all we hear especially from some on this site is how the big boys are going to take them over and somehow it is Canadians fault? These are AMERICAN companies."

If foreign interests are mucking anything up there, of course it is Canada's fault. Jeeeze, it's your country, you make the rules - make a few. If foreign ownership of your packing industry is more negetive than positive, you can stop it. American companies can't take over any Canadian industry without Canadian consent.

I'm not sure, but I think you have certain laws that restrict us from buying up your fishing camps and what not. Put something similar on the packing industry.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
blackjack said:
...there is a new plant just north of calgary mike that is close to starting up... small in comparison to the tyson plant in brooks or the cargill plant in high river but never the less has backing by some larger feedlots here in alberta which relied on the usa packing plants to provide competetion...only time i guess will tell if it survives...though i would have preferred to see a larger grassroot producer investment in our industry... i can see our government is leading the route towards the integration(sp) of the chain... whether we like it or not when goverment policy is helping big business control the price on the farm... the mentality of thinking of being a independent rancher is quickly coming to a end...

Thats Ranchers Beef Factory in Balzac :D
 

Mike

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
blackjack said:
...there is a new plant just north of calgary mike that is close to starting up... small in comparison to the tyson plant in brooks or the cargill plant in high river but never the less has backing by some larger feedlots here in alberta which relied on the usa packing plants to provide competetion...only time i guess will tell if it survives...though i would have preferred to see a larger grassroot producer investment in our industry... i can see our government is leading the route towards the integration(sp) of the chain... whether we like it or not when goverment policy is helping big business control the price on the farm... the mentality of thinking of being a independent rancher is quickly coming to a end...

Thats Ranchers Beef Factory in Balzac :D

Hope it works!
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Canadian producers and investors are putting money into these efforts and all we hear especially from some on this site is how the big boys are going to take them over and somehow it is Canadians fault? These are AMERICAN companies."

If foreign interests are mucking anything up there, of course it is Canada's fault. Jeeeze, it's your country, you make the rules - make a few. If foreign ownership of your packing industry is more negetive than positive, you can stop it. American companies can't take over any Canadian industry without Canadian consent.

I'm not sure, but I think you have certain laws that restrict us from buying up your fishing camps and what not. Put something similar on the packing industry.

Fishing camps????

About the free market. Its working in Alberta. Words out now that we dont sue and harass packers. We are starting to see more and more investment in the packing industry. Guess Ralph knew what he was doing all along :D
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Canadian producers and investors are putting money into these efforts and all we hear especially from some on this site is how the big boys are going to take them over and somehow it is Canadians fault? These are AMERICAN companies."

If foreign interests are mucking anything up there, of course it is Canada's fault. Jeeeze, it's your country, you make the rules - make a few. If foreign ownership of your packing industry is more negetive than positive, you can stop it. American companies can't take over any Canadian industry without Canadian consent.

I'm not sure, but I think you have certain laws that restrict us from buying up your fishing camps and what not. Put something similar on the packing industry.


Fishing camps????

About the free market. Its working in Alberta. Words out now that we dont sue and harass packers. We are starting to see more and more investment in the packing industry. Guess Ralph knew what he was doing all along :D

Maybe the words out that packers can get huge government payments, can laugh at Contempt of Parliament charges, and then be exonerated by shoddy "reports" designed to protect them and the politicians who wrote the checks. Heck, who wouldn't want a piece of that action?
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
RoperAB said:
Sandhusker said:
Bill, "Canadian producers and investors are putting money into these efforts and all we hear especially from some on this site is how the big boys are going to take them over and somehow it is Canadians fault? These are AMERICAN companies."

If foreign interests are mucking anything up there, of course it is Canada's fault. Jeeeze, it's your country, you make the rules - make a few. If foreign ownership of your packing industry is more negetive than positive, you can stop it. American companies can't take over any Canadian industry without Canadian consent.

I'm not sure, but I think you have certain laws that restrict us from buying up your fishing camps and what not. Put something similar on the packing industry.


Fishing camps????

About the free market. Its working in Alberta. Words out now that we dont sue and harass packers. We are starting to see more and more investment in the packing industry. Guess Ralph knew what he was doing all along :D

Maybe the words out that packers can get huge government payments, can laugh at Contempt of Parliament charges, and then be exonerated by shoddy "reports" designed to protect them and the politicians who wrote the checks. Heck, who wouldn't want a piece of that action?

This was a direct result of rcalfs efforts to destroy Canadian producers. Like I told you months ago, all this stuff that rcalf is doing to try to stick it to others isnt going to have the effect rcalf is looking for. At worst its just going to come back and hurt American producers.
You know Canadian producers wanted to work with American producers. But all rcalf could think about was if only they could destroy Canadian producers, everything would be wonderful.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Roper, "This was a direct result of rcalfs efforts to destroy Canadian producers. Like I told you months ago, all this stuff that rcalf is doing to try to stick it to others isnt going to have the effect rcalf is looking for. At worst its just going to come back and hurt American producers.
You know Canadian producers wanted to work with American producers. But all rcalf could think about was if only they could destroy Canadian producers, everything would be wonderful."

WRONG WRONG WRONG! R-CALF is NOT out to destroy Canadian producers. That torks me off everytime I hear it. If you really want to know what R-CALF is out to do, check out their website - there's a whole bunch of archives to look at. Get you information from them and not the coffee shop.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
In answer to Murgen's start of this thread, the interests of those playing the concentration game come before those of the producers. The current policies have of no Creekstone testing has promoted that through public policy from a puppet USDA.

Will the big packers leave money on the table in order to gain a better hand in the competition game?

They did.

As rkaiser said once, the whole testing thing will change when the big boys pulling the puppet strings want to dance that tune. It does not happen because it is the right thing to do---protect food safety and promote the beef industry. Money is being left on the table because of this and it is the producer's money that is being left on the table. The big packers don't want an outfit like Creekstone that wants to go further than the govt. mandated food safety to be successful because of the increased competition for producer's product. Since packers play off of a margin anyway, their goal is to increase the margin even if it comes at the expense of their suppliers. They can increase their margins when they have less competition and create barriers to entry in their business. They have done both with these policy decisions.
 
Top