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Fat's bad?? (must read for MRJ, Jason)

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Surely you jest! How many cattle producers do you think NCBA leaders speak with per week?

Just guessing, but I believe quite accurately, that what leaders say for publication is pretty much based on distillation of what MANY members are saying to many leaders of the affiliates and of NCBA who are out in the country attending the area and state meetings, calling the office, and emailing staff and leaders.

NCBA policy does not just happen! It isn't pulled out of thin air by staff and leaders! Maybe that is how your organization does it, in fact some of it seems to be made in spur of the moment outbursts on auction market reports on some radio stations!

My laundry is finished. I'm out of the office for the day. No 'girls' in my 'office' to take of work while I play on the computer, darn it!

mrj

Nonsense. Part of being in a national organization is so you can have leaders pay attention and be on top of all the issues and interpret them for you so you can spend your time running your business. Those statements attributed to NCBA was not policy, it was your "leaders" (who are "leading" them?) giving their interpretation of what the farm bill would mean to producers. They aren't asking producers, producers are asking them and Stevenson's say those answers being given to producers are not truthful - and you can't refute Stevenson's in any way.
 

Tex

Well-known member
mrj, why don't you stop talking about your dirty laundry to avoid answering questions.

NCBA leaders are lying and you can't refute it with facts.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Boys, when you are in a bind, you must attack those disagreeing with you based only on your guesses about ones' morals, thoughts, and ideas. You are SO transparent.

I mention laundry because I can justify (to myself) time spent playing on this machine when I'm putting clothes through the machines as fast as possible..........not wanting to be too far away to hear the buzzer. Soon I'll be defrosting a freezer. What snide remark can you dream up about that???

Your scenario imagining that NCBA members are ASKING leaders what is going in the world and what should we do may be a reflection of R-CALF operations, but definitely is not how things work in NCBA!

SOME cattle producers have multiple sources for information, some even keep close contact with their Congressmen to ask THEM what the proposed bills say......and figure out for ourselves how it will affect our business , THEN tell our leaders what we want them to do.

It's really sad that ranchers you know are so dependent upon your organization to form their opinions, though.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, "Your scenario imagining that NCBA members are ASKING leaders what is going in the world and what should we do may be a reflection of R-CALF operations, but definitely is not how things work in NCBA!"

Ummmmm..... that's what you elect leaders for, MRJ. :shock:
 

mrj

Well-known member
Guess I didn't make myself clear enough for you.

There are cattle producers who understand how the changes in the law will affect their marketing practices and have told NCBA leaders it will be detrimental to them.

Sure, there are times when something comes up which needs to be, and is, communicated back from leadership to members.

However leadership of NCBA also LISTENS to members, rather than simply assuming they know best what is good for members.

More government micro-management and regulation and less producer freedom of marketing options is not good.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
mrj said:
Guess I didn't make myself clear enough for you.

There are cattle producers who understand how the changes in the law will affect their marketing practices and have told NCBA leaders it will be detrimental to them.

Sure, there are times when something comes up which needs to be, and is, communicated back from leadership to members.

However leadership of NCBA also LISTENS to members, rather than simply assuming they know best what is good for members.

More government micro-management and regulation and less producer freedom of marketing options is not good.

mrj

Good grief, MRJ. Those statements were your leadership communicating to membership how pending legislation would effect them. That is one of their jobs. They were not reporting on a poll of membership. The only problem with their communication is that what they are saying isn't true. It isn't the first time the truth wasn't with them.

You like to think all the NCBA bashing is just sour grapes. I can assure you it's much deeper than that. Many of us are outraged. We're damn tired and upset with NCBA constantly backing legislation and policies that HURT cattlemen and fighting policies that would HELP cattlemen. Our futures are being threatened. I honestly have more respect for the AMI. They are lying, coniving, despicable bastards - but at least they are honest who they represent. NCBA claims to represent US producers, but then go against them time and time again.

Please don't tell me that NCBA listens and doesn't assume they know what is best. Remember that 11 point deal that membership voted in and leadership reversed within a few months? That was listening and not acting on what they thought best?

"less producer freedom of marketing options"? What marketing options are producers losing?
 

Tex

Well-known member
mrj said:
Boys, when you are in a bind, you must attack those disagreeing with you based only on your guesses about ones' morals, thoughts, and ideas. You are SO transparent.

I mention laundry because I can justify (to myself) time spent playing on this machine when I'm putting clothes through the machines as fast as possible..........not wanting to be too far away to hear the buzzer. Soon I'll be defrosting a freezer. What snide remark can you dream up about that???

Your scenario imagining that NCBA members are ASKING leaders what is going in the world and what should we do may be a reflection of R-CALF operations, but definitely is not how things work in NCBA!

SOME cattle producers have multiple sources for information, some even keep close contact with their Congressmen to ask THEM what the proposed bills say......and figure out for ourselves how it will affect our business , THEN tell our leaders what we want them to do.

It's really sad that ranchers you know are so dependent upon your organization to form their opinions, though.

mrj
 

Tex

Well-known member
mrj said:
Boys, when you are in a bind, you must attack those disagreeing with you based only on your guesses about ones' morals, thoughts, and ideas. You are SO transparent.

I mention laundry because I can justify (to myself) time spent playing on this machine when I'm putting clothes through the machines as fast as possible..........not wanting to be too far away to hear the buzzer. Soon I'll be defrosting a freezer. What snide remark can you dream up about that???

Your scenario imagining that NCBA members are ASKING leaders what is going in the world and what should we do may be a reflection of R-CALF operations, but definitely is not how things work in NCBA!

SOME cattle producers have multiple sources for information, some even keep close contact with their Congressmen to ask THEM what the proposed bills say......and figure out for ourselves how it will affect our business , THEN tell our leaders what we want them to do.

It's really sad that ranchers you know are so dependent upon your organization to form their opinions, though.

mrj
SOME cattle producers have multiple sources for information, some even keep close contact with their Congressmen to ask THEM what the proposed bills say......and figure out for ourselves how it will affect our business , THEN tell our leaders what we want them to do.

If they are lying to you and you are so stupid you can't tell it, you will still be wrong!!!
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Tex said:
If they are lying to you and you are so stupid you can't tell it, you will still be wrong!!!
You're a true southern gentleman Tex. Nothing makes you look any smarter in my book than calling grandmothers that have been in the cattle business all their life , stupid. Intellectually it's a great move on your part.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Tex said:
If they are lying to you and you are so stupid you can't tell it, you will still be wrong!!!
You're a true southern gentleman Tex. Nothing makes you look any smarter in my book than calling grandmothers that have been in the cattle business all their life , stupid. Intellectually it's a great move on your part.

I know your feelings are more important than the truth, rr, that is mrj's problem too.

I didn't call anyone stupid in my post, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Both my grandmothers were in the cattle business all their lives and they sure weren't stupid. They were way too smart to let themselves be used by people who couldn't tell right from wrong, or from people who would sit and lie to them.

If you would like to take on the quotes (lies) by NCBA to keep control of the cattle business that were posted, please do.

If you want to talk about your feelings, ranch talk might be better for you instead of the Bull Session.

Either way, please don't try to hide truth behind your incompetence or your feelings.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Tex said:
Red Robin said:
Tex said:
If they are lying to you and you are so stupid you can't tell it, you will still be wrong!!!
You're a true southern gentleman Tex. Nothing makes you look any smarter in my book than calling grandmothers that have been in the cattle business all their life , stupid. Intellectually it's a great move on your part.

I know your feelings are more important than the truth, rr, that is mrj's problem too.

I didn't call anyone stupid in my post, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Both my grandmothers were in the cattle business all their lives and they sure weren't stupid. They were way too smart to let themselves be used by people who couldn't tell right from wrong, or from people who would sit and lie to them.

If you would like to take on the quotes (lies) by NCBA to keep control of the cattle business that were posted, please do.

If you want to talk about your feelings, ranch talk might be better for you instead of the Bull Session.

Either way, please don't try to hide truth behind your incompetence or your feelings.
You're condescending and belittling to MRJ. I don't know her but she seems to deserve better than being called stupid. Nice enough woman in my book.

On the subject of truth, you proved in this discourse and through some other actions that you believe as a human you aren't able to recognize truth for certain. Why , if you can't know what's true, do you criticize MRJ? For all you know she could be right.
Econ101 said:
Red Robin said:
Econ101 said:
Red Robin:

Oh, I do believe in absolute truth. I didn't read your question before I posted my last post, but I think I answered it mostly in the last post.

Jesus illustrated the truth and the parables just showed that the truth was not encompassed in mere words, but in a deeper understanding of the parable itself.

The truth is not vague, we are.

You make laws defining right and wrong based on someone's actions. You describe the action that is illegal and then you have a penalty assigned to it. In capital cases and other types of cases the intent must also be shown. I say shown because proof in our terms is never absolute. It is a judgement in our eyes. Many times these judgements are just wrong and usually it is because of a lack of complete information.

While the truth of what happened is absolute, our interpretation of it is an approximation of that truth. Only God knows the whole truth.

How many innocent people have we put on deathrow because of a lack of complete information and the approximation of a jury to the truth turning out to be wrong?
I don't want to put words in your mouth econ but I'm trying to figure your position out in my own mind. Are you saying you believe in an absolute truth but we being human can't know what that truth is?

We have a human tendency to make "truth" what we want it to be. We have a natural bias based on our limited knowledge. In order to know real truth we must take that tendency or bias out. Independent jurors are the best bet we have (since they are not connected with the case, their tendencies are ostensibly nuetral to the isssue) of that in the interpretation of the worldly law as written. An independent judiciary is also important in this respect. Our legal system relies on the opposing parties using their talents to uncover the truth through a legal battle. If you are poor, and can not afford to pay for all the best talent, and the other side has unlimited resources at their disposal, what does that do to the finding of truth in our system? Is there a bias?

Often times in political campaigns, the news media reports that one candidate has much more money in their coffers than another. Is this an indication that the one candidate has more "truth"? That would be a worldly measure of the "truth" but often the sources of that money are meant to corrupt the truth for personal profit. To me, it is the candidate that can stand up to these pressures is the better candidate and encompasses the truth better. From the outset the "truth" is at a disadvantage.

Read your Bible, think, pray, and the truth will be revealed to you.

If the truth is revealed to you, what will you do with it?
 

Tex

Well-known member
mrj had the quotes posted and did not address them at all. Instead she just made stuff up to support her group.

I have no problem arguing with someone to reach a better understanding. Unless mrj thinks NCBA is a religion, and even if that is so, I would like her to refute the points of difference. We might all have a better understanding if that occurred.

In addition, I would like you to do the same.

Contrary to what you have asserted, I do believe we can find truth. When found, it must be recognized, just as the post you put up by Econ suggests.

I would like to know from you if my statement is correct:

If people lie to you and you are so stupid that you can't tell it, and you repeat those lies, would you be right or wrong?

Perhaps you could refute the information that was originally posted by RM that mrj could and did not instead of hiding behind the fact that she is a grandmother (diversion). You may not be able to do this due to a genetic predisposition some people seem to have of following others instead of analyzing information. If so, I will be glad to be the first to recognize this as a genetic problem and one obviously inherent in a part of the population. I can still accept you as grandmother, a grandfather, a neighbor, a friend, a fellow church goer, a good parent, or a whole lot of other things but in respect to question at hand, you may also be considered STUPID along with all the other less derogatory descriptions.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Tex said:
I would like to know from you if my statement is correct:

If people lie to you and you are so stupid that you can't tell it, and you repeat those lies, would you be right or wrong?
It would be neither right, nor wrong, it would be ignorance (something we all know plenty about). That's one reason I don't hold you as accountable as I should econ. Give it a rest. If MRJ is wrong, you still have no right to call her stupid. You can't rationalize it so you should quit trying.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Tex said:
I would like to know from you if my statement is correct:

If people lie to you and you are so stupid that you can't tell it, and you repeat those lies, would you be right or wrong?
It would be neither right, nor wrong, it would be ignorance (something we all know plenty about). That's one reason I don't hold you as accountable as I should econ. Give it a rest. If MRJ is wrong, you still have no right to call her stupid. You can't rationalize it so you should quit trying.

rr, I didn't call mrj stupid in that post, you assumed it.

Re read the post, rr. You brought what you wanted to bring into it. I can not help it if you have a hidden predisposition that mrj is ignorant as well as a grandmother.

I happen to agree with you on both accounts.


Perhaps you could refute the information that was originally posted by RM that mrj could and did not instead of hiding behind the fact that she is a grandmother (diversion)
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Red Robin, like MRJ, you bring nothing to the thread about the issues. Like brother SH would say...you would rather discuss the shape of the table than to address the issues on it. I don't mind being proved wrong...Agman and I were on the opposite sides of the fence on many issues, but I learned much from him because he brought substance with his arguments. Can no one else from NCBA or CBB do the same?????
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Red Robin, like MRJ, you bring nothing to the thread about the issues. Like brother SH would say...you would rather discuss the shape of the table than to address the issues on it. I don't mind being proved wrong...Agman and I were on the opposite sides of the fence on many issues, but I learned much from him because he brought substance with his arguments. Can no one else from NCBA or CBB do the same?????
I'm not a member of NCBA and I don't even know what CBB is. I won't ever depend on a membership in any organization to do anything for me. Checking my heifers at calving just one more time will do me more good than anything anyone in Washington will ever do for mel.I could really care less. R-Calf, NCBA, CBB or the Government won't make me or break me. I'll do that with the decisions I make day to day. Tex's comment to MRJ was in poor taste. I read your article, enjoied it and sent the link to a friend. What issue did you want me to bring to the table or address????
 

Tex

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
RobertMac said:
Red Robin, like MRJ, you bring nothing to the thread about the issues. Like brother SH would say...you would rather discuss the shape of the table than to address the issues on it. I don't mind being proved wrong...Agman and I were on the opposite sides of the fence on many issues, but I learned much from him because he brought substance with his arguments. Can no one else from NCBA or CBB do the same?????
I'm not a member of NCBA and I don't even know what CBB is. I won't ever depend on a membership in any organization to do anything for me. Checking my heifers at calving just one more time will do me more good than anything anyone in Washington will ever do for mel.I could really care less. R-Calf, NCBA, CBB or the Government won't make me or break me. I'll do that with the decisions I make day to day. Tex's comment to MRJ was in poor taste. I read your article, enjoied it and sent the link to a friend. What issue did you want me to bring to the table or address????

rr, mrj is quite capable of distancing herself with feelings of stupidity without your help. She must do it all the time.

:shock:
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
RobertMac said:
Red Robin, like MRJ, you bring nothing to the thread about the issues. Like brother SH would say...you would rather discuss the shape of the table than to address the issues on it. I don't mind being proved wrong...Agman and I were on the opposite sides of the fence on many issues, but I learned much from him because he brought substance with his arguments. Can no one else from NCBA or CBB do the same?????
I'm not a member of NCBA and I don't even know what CBB is. I won't ever depend on a membership in any organization to do anything for me. Checking my heifers at calving just one more time will do me more good than anything anyone in Washington will ever do for mel.I could really care less. R-Calf, NCBA, CBB or the Government won't make me or break me. I'll do that with the decisions I make day to day. Tex's comment to MRJ was in poor taste. I read your article, enjoied it and sent the link to a friend. What issue did you want me to bring to the table or address????

The issue is the USDA data I posted showing the decline of the production side of the beef industry(That's the part of the beef industry INSIDE YOUR FARM GATE)!!! At least you're honest about why you bring nothing to the debate..."I could really care less." You should care because what happens past your gate determines your pay check!!!

CBB is the Cattlemen's Beef Board...you may know it better as "the check-off"! :? :???:

As for Tex's comment, look at it from a different perspective...that it wasn't directed solely at MRJ?!?!? :eek: :shock: (That's usually what the use of pronouns infer.)

I respect MRJ because she has stayed engaged while others have 'cut and run' or simply stay silent. She has shown the toughness of a true cattlewoman...even if it is just blind faith in NCBA.

The fact (as Ben has pointed out) is that packers laugh at producers because they know that the vast majority of the 850,000 producers have your attitude..."I could really care less." And that's a shame!!!! :mad:
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Back to the original reason for this thread...a quote from the book, Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes...

One potentially relevant observation that Sims and his colleagues neglected to publish, for example, was that it seemed impossible to fatten up their subjects on high-fat, high-protein diets, in which the food to be eaten in excess was meat. According to Sims's collaborator Edward Horton, now professor of medicine at Harvard and director of clinical research the Joslin Diabetes Center, the volunteers would sit staring at "plates of pork chops a mile high," and they would refuse to eat enough of this meat to constitute the excess thousand calories a day that the Vermont investigators were asking of them. Danforth later described this regimen as the experimental equivalent of the diet prescribed by Robert Atkins in his 1973 diet book, Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution. "The bottom line," Danforth said, "is that you cannot gain weight on the Atkins diet. It's just too hard. I challenge anyone to do an overfeeding study with just meat. You can't do it. I think it's a physical impossibility."

CBB spending may have done some good for producers and the over-weight public by supporting Dr. Atkins' book!!! And they could support Gary Taubes' book too!!!!!!!!
 

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