• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

For Oldtimer and OT, alone

Soapweed

Well-known member
Brought over from Coffee Shop

Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
With Obama at the helm, this is all going to happen much quicker than it otherwise would. :(

I don't want to argue politics-- but the past 20 years it has been fasttracked- right thru all the years of your Champion- just like the one sided trade agreements...At least now they are again looking and talking "family farms"- and local and regional production- and not everything lined out toward the Tysons/JBS's/Midland Daniels/Monsanto/Pfizer Pharmaceuticals multinational conglomerates that have controlled the industry for too long....

Now SAGE jump on me for arguing politics- and kiss old Soaps butt.. :roll:

Oldtimer, how about you and me just rolling up our sleeves, take this "outside" (over to Political Bull) :wink: and everyone else just let OT and me argue this one without help. :)

Oldtimer, you always seem to forget that Bush was not my "champion." I never did like him all that well, but he was better than either Al Gore or John Kerry would have been. I really wish at some point in time you could get this through your noggin. My point is that sometimes one doesn't end up voting for the best man, it turns into voting for the lesser of the two evils. This has been the case in the past several elections. Reagan was the last really good choice that we had.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer, it hasn't been all that long ago that you were still a Republican voting mainly for the Republican ticket. You are no less guilty than any of the rest of us for letting the Republicans fall to pieces. We all should have been more on the stick to hold them accountable.

I had a phone call yesterday from someone wanting me to contribute money to the Republican party. I tried to gently tell the lady on the other end of the line that I planned to continue voting for Republican candidates but didn't plan to donate any money to their cause. She was a high pressure saleslady and tried to get me to listen to more of her spiel.

I came unglued and told her that the Republican leadership had had the ball in their court for quite a few years, and had blown wonderful opportunities to make things better. I told her that the powers that be had really dropped the ball when they allowed John McCain to be the last man standing when it came to a Republican presidential candidate. McCain is not a bad fellow, but he is quite up and years and tends to have a bad temper, both qualities not being ideal for the job for which he was running. There is no reason in the world why out of all the competent good Republicans in America, someone other than John McCain didn't end up being the top dog in the race.

My last words to the lady were for her to relay my message to Republicans that they had better get their house in order, and the sooner the better.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer, in the past I have asked you how your neighbors feel politically, and if they are as Liberal as you are. Since you live in ranch country, as do I, it is impossible for me to imagine that Montana ranchers are Liberal when Nebraska, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Idaho ranchers tend to be Conservative. I just have a hunch that you are in a minority with your line of Liberal thinking, even in your own neighborhood.

I am reminded of one of my good lifelong friends who is also a rancher. In his high school days, this friend liked rock music and played in a rock band. Ten years had gone by and one day we were visiting about things in general. He confessed to me that he still liked rock music but had also grown to like country music. He said that the main reason for this was that after analyzing the long haired tattooed drug-influenced rock singers, and the mostly cleaner cut cowboy-type country singers, he thought about which group of people he would most like to have for friends.

Oldtimer, since you are still not too many years removed from being a conservative-type thinker, I am willing to bet that your best friends still also are more on the conservative-order. Even though you are a now a full-fledged Liberal, surely a few sensible Conservative ideas are still in your make-up.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
Brought over from Coffee Shop

Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
I don't want to argue politics-- but the past 20 years it has been fasttracked- right thru all the years of your Champion- just like the one sided trade agreements...At least now they are again looking and talking "family farms"- and local and regional production- and not everything lined out toward the Tysons/JBS's/Midland Daniels/Monsanto/Pfizer Pharmaceuticals multinational conglomerates that have controlled the industry for too long....

Now SAGE jump on me for arguing politics- and kiss old Soaps butt.. :roll:

Oldtimer, how about you and me just rolling up our sleeves, take this "outside" (over to Political Bull) :wink: and everyone else just let OT and me argue this one without help. :)

Oldtimer, you always seem to forget that Bush was not my "champion." I never did like him all that well, but he was better than either Al Gore or John Kerry would have been. I really wish at some point in time you could get this through your noggin. My point is that sometimes one doesn't end up voting for the best man, it turns into voting for the lesser of the two evils. This has been the case in the past several elections. Reagan was the last really good choice that we had.

I was over on some sites that like to talk cattle and the cattle industry and all issues of agriculture without it all being tied to politics...

That was never meant to be a political post- its whats been happening in our part of the country for 30 years but went on fast track about the last 10...And without some change- will continue...

I did put a lot of credence in Bush's promises- voted for him (didn't vote for either his Dad or Clinton)- but began losing faith when he didn't carry any out- and totally lost faith when I could see the handwriting on the wall that he (and a rubberstamp Repub Congress) was leading the country into bankruptcy (which I was chastised royally for when I said so) -- but when things came to be- it was me saying "I Told You So"....

And for that reason and the fact that the Republicans ran a Bush puppet- and they have centered themselves around a rightwingernut crazy "base" I couldn't vote for the (R) candidate this year....

Too me this is an issue everyone in agriculture should be worried about- as production income continues to shrink in comparison to production costs...But the reason Ag has taken a back seat for years- and keeps taking an ever bigger backseat is because you can't get any 2 people in Ag to agree on anything- and the backing of the political cults (R) or (D) takes precedence so those involved are always fighting against each other..

But on this site anymore- if you don't have an opinion that fits into the footsteps of the mob mentality- or try to put out new ideas that don't fit the thinking of 50-100 years ago you are immediately jumped on as antiAmerican, Evil, unpatriotic, the Antichrist himself, etc. etc....

And because of it we keep losing some of our longtime and some of our more intelligent posters- replacing them with the hopalongs, guest 1's, Frankies, MsSage, etc. that only live to do personal attacks so they can get backslapped by the mob....And then you get blamed when you edit off the personal attacks like they were doing to your family and some other innocent site posters the other day :roll:
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I was over on some sites that like to talk cattle and the cattle industry and all issues of agriculture without it all being tied to politics...

That was never meant to be a political post- its whats been happening in our part of the country for 30 years but went on fast track about the last 10...And without some change- will continue...

I did put a lot of credence in Bush's promises- voted for him (didn't vote for either his Dad or Clinton)- but began losing faith when he didn't carry any out- and totally lost faith when I could see the handwriting on the wall that he (and a rubberstamp Repub Congress) was leading the country into bankruptcy (which I was chastised royally for when I said so) -- but when things came to be- it was me saying "I Told You So"....

And for that reason and the fact that the Republicans ran a Bush puppet- and they have centered themselves a rightwingernut crazy "base" couldn't vote for the (R) candidate this year....

Too me this is an issue everyone in agriculture should be worried about- as production income continues to shrink in comparison to production costs...But the reason Ag has taken a back seat for years- and keeps taking an ever bigger backseat is because you can't get any 2 people in Ag to agree on anything- and the backing of the political cults (R) or (D) takes precedence so those involved are always fighting against each other..

But on this site anymore- if you don't have an opinion that fits into the footsteps of the mob mentality- or try to put out new ideas that don't fit the thinking of 50-100 years ago you are immediately jumped on as antiAmerican, Evil, unpatriotic, the Antichrist himself, etc. etc....

And because of it we keep losing some of our longtime and some of our more intelligent posters- replacing them with the hopalongs, guest 1's, Frankies, MsSage, etc. that only live to do personal attacks so they can get backslapped by the mob....And then you get blamed when you edit off the personal attacks like they were doing to your family and some other innocent site posters the other day :roll:

The reason both you and I didn't like Bush was that he was too Liberal and spent too much money. Why in the world do you think Obama is so wonderful when he plumb puts Bush to shame when it comes to being Liberal with both his ideas and his spending? Talk about "fasttrack"-- Obama is selling us down the river about as "fasttrack" as is possible. We were gently rolling down the river with a moderate current under Bush's tutelage. With Obama running the ship's wheel, we are in whitewater rapids headed for a breakup. :mad:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
I was over on some sites that like to talk cattle and the cattle industry and all issues of agriculture without it all being tied to politics...

That was never meant to be a political post- its whats been happening in our part of the country for 30 years but went on fast track about the last 10...And without some change- will continue...

I did put a lot of credence in Bush's promises- voted for him (didn't vote for either his Dad or Clinton)- but began losing faith when he didn't carry any out- and totally lost faith when I could see the handwriting on the wall that he (and a rubberstamp Repub Congress) was leading the country into bankruptcy (which I was chastised royally for when I said so) -- but when things came to be- it was me saying "I Told You So"....

And for that reason and the fact that the Republicans ran a Bush puppet- and they have centered themselves a rightwingernut crazy "base" couldn't vote for the (R) candidate this year....

Too me this is an issue everyone in agriculture should be worried about- as production income continues to shrink in comparison to production costs...But the reason Ag has taken a back seat for years- and keeps taking an ever bigger backseat is because you can't get any 2 people in Ag to agree on anything- and the backing of the political cults (R) or (D) takes precedence so those involved are always fighting against each other..

But on this site anymore- if you don't have an opinion that fits into the footsteps of the mob mentality- or try to put out new ideas that don't fit the thinking of 50-100 years ago you are immediately jumped on as antiAmerican, Evil, unpatriotic, the Antichrist himself, etc. etc....

And because of it we keep losing some of our longtime and some of our more intelligent posters- replacing them with the hopalongs, guest 1's, Frankies, MsSage, etc. that only live to do personal attacks so they can get backslapped by the mob....And then you get blamed when you edit off the personal attacks like they were doing to your family and some other innocent site posters the other day :roll:

The reason both you and I didn't like Bush was that he was too Liberal and spent too much money. Why in the world do you think Obama is so wonderful when he plumb puts Bush to shame when it comes to being Liberal with both his ideas and his spending? Talk about "fasttrack"-- Obama is selling us down the river about as "fasttrack" as is possible. We were gently rolling down the river with a moderate current under Bush's tutelage. With Obama running the ship's wheel, we are in whitewater rapids headed for a breakup. :mad:

At least if we have to have a "liberal" in the office- I'd rather have one that spends the taxpayers dollars toward the future of the US- building the US infrastructure- and projects/programs that aid the US population----- rather than sending it to fight 100 years of war nationbuilding- and building GW Superhighways in Baghdad- and providing all the Iraqis with a health care system that gives coverage to all their citizens- while many of ours lose their entire life savings if they are injured or get a serious disease.... :(
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
I was over on some sites that like to talk cattle and the cattle industry and all issues of agriculture without it all being tied to politics...

That was never meant to be a political post- its whats been happening in our part of the country for 30 years but went on fast track about the last 10...And without some change- will continue...

I did put a lot of credence in Bush's promises- voted for him (didn't vote for either his Dad or Clinton)- but began losing faith when he didn't carry any out- and totally lost faith when I could see the handwriting on the wall that he (and a rubberstamp Repub Congress) was leading the country into bankruptcy (which I was chastised royally for when I said so) -- but when things came to be- it was me saying "I Told You So"....

And for that reason and the fact that the Republicans ran a Bush puppet- and they have centered themselves a rightwingernut crazy "base" couldn't vote for the (R) candidate this year....

Too me this is an issue everyone in agriculture should be worried about- as production income continues to shrink in comparison to production costs...But the reason Ag has taken a back seat for years- and keeps taking an ever bigger backseat is because you can't get any 2 people in Ag to agree on anything- and the backing of the political cults (R) or (D) takes precedence so those involved are always fighting against each other..

But on this site anymore- if you don't have an opinion that fits into the footsteps of the mob mentality- or try to put out new ideas that don't fit the thinking of 50-100 years ago you are immediately jumped on as antiAmerican, Evil, unpatriotic, the Antichrist himself, etc. etc....

And because of it we keep losing some of our longtime and some of our more intelligent posters- replacing them with the hopalongs, guest 1's, Frankies, MsSage, etc. that only live to do personal attacks so they can get backslapped by the mob....And then you get blamed when you edit off the personal attacks like they were doing to your family and some other innocent site posters the other day :roll:

The reason both you and I didn't like Bush was that he was too Liberal and spent too much money. Why in the world do you think Obama is so wonderful when he plumb puts Bush to shame when it comes to being Liberal with both his ideas and his spending? Talk about "fasttrack"-- Obama is selling us down the river about as "fasttrack" as is possible. We were gently rolling down the river with a moderate current under Bush's tutelage. With Obama running the ship's wheel, we are in whitewater rapids headed for a breakup. :mad:

At least if we have to have a "liberal" in the office- I'd rather have one that spends the taxpayers dollars toward the future of the US- building the US infrastructure- and projects/programs that aid the US population----- rather than sending it to fight 100 years of war nationbuilding- and building GW Superhighways in Baghdad- and providing all the Iraqis with a health care system that gives coverage to all their citizens- while many of ours lose their entire life savings if they are injured or get a serious disease.... :(

You and Obama make it sound quite grand, but in reality this is not the way it is happening. Working people will be taxed until they break, and the freeloaders will continue to freeload. America cannot continue being a great country when hard-working people get penalized for their accomplishments. When businesses get an overdose of taxes, they cannot continue to operate, and they will be unable to hire people who need jobs.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
The reason both you and I didn't like Bush was that he was too Liberal and spent too much money. Why in the world do you think Obama is so wonderful when he plumb puts Bush to shame when it comes to being Liberal with both his ideas and his spending? Talk about "fasttrack"-- Obama is selling us down the river about as "fasttrack" as is possible. We were gently rolling down the river with a moderate current under Bush's tutelage. With Obama running the ship's wheel, we are in whitewater rapids headed for a breakup. :mad:

At least if we have to have a "liberal" in the office- I'd rather have one that spends the taxpayers dollars toward the future of the US- building the US infrastructure- and projects/programs that aid the US population----- rather than sending it to fight 100 years of war nationbuilding- and building GW Superhighways in Baghdad- and providing all the Iraqis with a health care system that gives coverage to all their citizens- while many of ours lose their entire life savings if they are injured or get a serious disease.... :(

You and Obama make it sound quite grand, but in reality this is not the way it is happening. Working people will be taxed until they break, and the freeloaders will continue to freeload. America cannot continue being a great country when hard-working people get penalized for their accomplishments. When businesses get an overdose of taxes, they cannot continue to operate, and they will be unable to hire people who need jobs.

The freeloaders are already freeloading-- and costing those that are paying their way...When you pay your health insurance or hospital bill you are paying for those that can't afford, can't get, or just don't have insurance costs--and it is usually much higher costs because instead of going to a Dr. for regular care- wait until the problem is chronic- and takes expensive treatment...
One of the reasons that health care costs and insurance is rising so fast is that the number of those "noncovered" which is the same as saying "nonpaying" is rising....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
I was over on some sites that like to talk cattle and the cattle industry and all issues of agriculture without it all being tied to politics...

That was never meant to be a political post- its whats been happening in our part of the country for 30 years but went on fast track about the last 10...And without some change- will continue...

I did put a lot of credence in Bush's promises- voted for him (didn't vote for either his Dad or Clinton)- but began losing faith when he didn't carry any out- and totally lost faith when I could see the handwriting on the wall that he (and a rubberstamp Repub Congress) was leading the country into bankruptcy (which I was chastised royally for when I said so) -- but when things came to be- it was me saying "I Told You So"....

And for that reason and the fact that the Republicans ran a Bush puppet- and they have centered themselves a rightwingernut crazy "base" couldn't vote for the (R) candidate this year....

Too me this is an issue everyone in agriculture should be worried about- as production income continues to shrink in comparison to production costs...But the reason Ag has taken a back seat for years- and keeps taking an ever bigger backseat is because you can't get any 2 people in Ag to agree on anything- and the backing of the political cults (R) or (D) takes precedence so those involved are always fighting against each other..

But on this site anymore- if you don't have an opinion that fits into the footsteps of the mob mentality- or try to put out new ideas that don't fit the thinking of 50-100 years ago you are immediately jumped on as antiAmerican, Evil, unpatriotic, the Antichrist himself, etc. etc....

And because of it we keep losing some of our longtime and some of our more intelligent posters- replacing them with the hopalongs, guest 1's, Frankies, MsSage, etc. that only live to do personal attacks so they can get backslapped by the mob....And then you get blamed when you edit off the personal attacks like they were doing to your family and some other innocent site posters the other day :roll:

The reason both you and I didn't like Bush was that he was too Liberal and spent too much money. Why in the world do you think Obama is so wonderful when he plumb puts Bush to shame when it comes to being Liberal with both his ideas and his spending? Talk about "fasttrack"-- Obama is selling us down the river about as "fasttrack" as is possible. We were gently rolling down the river with a moderate current under Bush's tutelage. With Obama running the ship's wheel, we are in whitewater rapids headed for a breakup. :mad:

At least if we have to have a "liberal" in the office- I'd rather have one that spends the taxpayers dollars toward the future of the US- building the US infrastructure- and projects/programs that aid the US population----- rather than sending it to fight 100 years of war nationbuilding- and building GW Superhighways in Baghdad- and providing all the Iraqis with a health care system that gives coverage to all their citizens- while many of ours lose their entire life savings if they are injured or get a serious disease.... :(
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
You and Obama make it sound quite grand, but in reality this is not the way it is happening. Working people will be taxed until they break, and the freeloaders will continue to freeload. America cannot continue being a great country when hard-working people get penalized for their accomplishments. When businesses get an overdose of taxes, they cannot continue to operate, and they will be unable to hire people who need jobs.

The freeloaders are already freeloading-- and costing those that are paying their way...When you pay your health insurance or hospital bill you are paying for those that can't afford, can't get, or just don't have insurance costs--and it is usually much higher costs because instead of going to a Dr. for regular care- wait until the problem is chronic- and takes expensive treatment...
One of the reasons that health care costs and insurance is rising so fast is that the number of those "noncovered" which is the same as saying "nonpaying" is rising....

The real culprit in the medical dilema is the malpractice lawsuits that happen so often now. Lawyers just had to get their greedy little fingers in the pot. In the days of old, doctors did the best they could and charged a modest fee for their services. The patients appreciated the care they received from the doctors and did the best they could to pay their bills, even if they ended up paying with produce from their gardens. Now many highly qualified medical personnel are leaving the industry because they can no longer afford medical malpractice insurance and the they are just plumb sick of the hassle involved. It was just a better world before the Liberals loused up the system by making losers of society think they should be entitled to the fruits of the labors of working folks.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
The reason both you and I didn't like Bush was that he was too Liberal and spent too much money. Why in the world do you think Obama is so wonderful when he plumb puts Bush to shame when it comes to being Liberal with both his ideas and his spending? Talk about "fasttrack"-- Obama is selling us down the river about as "fasttrack" as is possible. We were gently rolling down the river with a moderate current under Bush's tutelage. With Obama running the ship's wheel, we are in whitewater rapids headed for a breakup. :mad:

At least if we have to have a "liberal" in the office- I'd rather have one that spends the taxpayers dollars toward the future of the US- building the US infrastructure- and projects/programs that aid the US population----- rather than sending it to fight 100 years of war nationbuilding- and building GW Superhighways in Baghdad- and providing all the Iraqis with a health care system that gives coverage to all their citizens- while many of ours lose their entire life savings if they are injured or get a serious disease.... :(

What good does it do to have a new bridge if nobody can a afford to drive over the dang thing?

Please stay out of this fight, Sandhusker. Making comments on a separate post is permissable, but this thread is between Oldtimer and me. :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
You and Obama make it sound quite grand, but in reality this is not the way it is happening. Working people will be taxed until they break, and the freeloaders will continue to freeload. America cannot continue being a great country when hard-working people get penalized for their accomplishments. When businesses get an overdose of taxes, they cannot continue to operate, and they will be unable to hire people who need jobs.

The freeloaders are already freeloading-- and costing those that are paying their way...When you pay your health insurance or hospital bill you are paying for those that can't afford, can't get, or just don't have insurance costs--and it is usually much higher costs because instead of going to a Dr. for regular care- wait until the problem is chronic- and takes expensive treatment...
One of the reasons that health care costs and insurance is rising so fast is that the number of those "noncovered" which is the same as saying "nonpaying" is rising....

The real culprit in the medical dilema is the malpractice lawsuits that happen so often now. Lawyers just had to get their greedy little fingers in the pot. In the days of old, doctors did the best they could and charged a modest fee for their services. The patients appreciated the care they received from the doctors and did the best they could to pay their bills, even if they ended up paying with produce from their gardens. Now many highly qualified medical personnel are leaving the industry because they can no longer afford medical malpractice insurance and the they are just plumb sick of the hassle involved. It was just a better world before the Liberals loused up the system by making losers of society think they should be entitled to the fruits of the labors of working folks.

Yep--and before the Doctors all thought they should make a couple million as plastic surgeons before they became 40- and the insurance companies had some ethics.....After the hearings- and the revelations of some of the things the insurance companies were pulling to screw people- they were down in a lower category than lawyers, wall street bankers, and made used car salesmen look like saints...

Not sure what each bill contains- but I do know the Kennedy/Dodd bill does address many issues regarding medical malpractice and takes away some of that threat to Doctors--But does not go far enough in my view- and never will when you have over 200 in Congress that list lawyer as an occupation- on both side of the (R) and (D) aisles....

The health care reform problem has been around for years- and was one of the #1 campaign promises GW made as he did recognize what it is doing to the country and the economy- and one of the main reasons I supported him after seeing so many lose everything- or live half their life trying to make things meet after making their court ordered hospital payment- that had came about because of a family members illness- or in the alternative- the number of cancer/chronic illness patients I saw bite on the gun barrel to keep from bankrupting the family... :( But it was another of Bush's hollow promises- and he did nothing except take away many peoples access to cheaper Canadian/European prescription drugs... :roll:
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
guest1 said:
In all honesty Soapweed has never really "stimulated" the economy. It seems he comes from old money, runs good cattle that have been put in his herd from his fathers breeding, and puts up some of his hay and hires most done. The big issue he has is real estate taxes, he is p****d that he has to pay taxes on ground that he didn't have to buy but inherited. Your taxes have gone up not because of a repub or dem but because your county needs more money, and I'm willing to bet your county is repub controlled. Leave OT alone and reflect on how greedy your own ass has become.

Guest1, you can't even follow instructions, but don't feel too bad because my friend and banker, Sandhusker, didn't follow the same instructions. This thread is for Oldtimer and me. Oldtimer, as moderator, you have my permission to eliminate any posts except yours and mine from this thread. As for me "running good cattle that have been put in his herd from his fathers breeding," that is erroneous thinking on your part. My dad ran straight Herefords, and I run pretty much straight Angus. Much of the land that is in our ranch has been purchased by my wife and I, so wasn't handed to me with no strings attached.

To answer your question, Guest1, I think I do "stimulate" the economy quite a bit in our local area. We buy about all of our groceries and supplies from our five most local towns. Being somewhat lazy and not talented mechanically, I hire all of our vehicle and tractor repair done by local mechanics. I just hired 650 tons of hay put up by local hay contractors. At $35 per ton to have this done, a check was written out for $22,750 for them. This money will recirculate through the community.

All of my vet supplies, supplemental cattle feed, and petroleum products are purchased locally. Our calves in the fall are sold through local salebarns, which helps stimulate the local economy. I would be so bold as to say that if I sold out to Ted Turner, the local communities would miss me more than they would benefit from Mr. Turner acquiring the land.

I am pretty sure I know who you are. I don't know you personally but am quite sure your dad works for a bank to the west of us and your mother works for a local hospital. You are running the place that your grandfather put together, as he just died fairly recently. With these credentials, you are basically doing the same thing as I am, which is running the family enterprise. Unless your money is easier to come by than mine, you will find that it is a fairly hard job just holding the outfit together. I am not sure why you have such a burr under your blanket about me, but it seems that this is your attitude with everyone. As for any resentment you hold against me, it is up to all of us to play with the cards that we are dealt. Any of us would be fools if we didn't do just that.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Back to you, Oldtimer. It seems that quite often in your posts you come out as anti-Christian. This bothers me, and it really bothers God. The Nine Eleven bombings come to mind. This jarred the nation enough that for the next three weeks the churches were full. People suddenly found the friendship of God quite comforting. Then complacency once again set in, and it was back to business as usual. Another incident that comes to mind is when the madman killer was on the loose in your town not too long ago. Your wife could very easily have been the next target. I think maybe a few prayers of thanksgiving were offered up to God by even you for the fact that her life was spared. But now it is back to "business as usual" and you tend to scorn any of us that proclaim ourselves to be Christians. I will pray for you. :wink: :)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
Back to you, Oldtimer. It seems that quite often in your posts you come out as anti-Christian. This bothers me, and it really bothers God. The Nine Eleven bombings come to mind. This jarred the nation enough that for the next three weeks the churches were full. People suddenly found the friendship of God quite comforting. Then complacency once again set in, and it was back to business as usual. Another incident that comes to mind is when the madman killer was on the loose in your town not too long ago. Your wife could very easily have been the next target. I think maybe a few prayers of thanksgiving were offered up to God by even you for the fact that her life was spared. But now it is back to "business as usual" and you tend to scorn any of us that proclaim ourselves to be Christians. I will pray for you. :wink: :)

Been a little busy Soap- and will be this weekend....

I'm as Christian as the next person-- but who on this earth has the right to judge who is the " GOOD CHRISTIAN" and who is the "BAD CHRISTIAN"...
What I do get upset at is the hypocrits that put themselves out as "Good Christians"- that wear their church on their sleeve- sit in the front pews so they can be seen by all, try to tell folks how to live their lives- and then turn around and get caught playing "tiptoe in the toilet" trolling for their gay lover- or flying around the world on taxpayer dollars visiting their mistress- etc. etc... I saw it so many times locally when the #1 pillar of the Church- President of the Bank- local Repub commitee Chairman- or one of the other holier than thous that were always out preaching their "family values" would be found out in a coulee at the end of the airport runway with his secretary or his partners wife in very compromising positions...

And I think the Republicans decision to put all their eggs in one basket with one segment of religious thinking as their "base"- the southern evangelical/pentacostal Christians - which Bush even tried to incorporate into his Administration--has hurt them badly- and made them look quite hypocritical on many occasions....They have became too radical for mainstream America- especially since so many know what they preach on Sunday- is not how they live their lives on Monday...

One thing I do believe in tho is the Declaration of Independences and Constitutions reaffirmation of the establishment of NO state church/religion- and the freedom to worship whatever religion a person wants to- or in the alternative no religion.... This was one of the main reasons folks fled the old countries is to escape religious persecution....

Which takes me back to the original question- what can we do to keep the rich and elite from owning all the agriculture property- and having their fiefdoms- and all producers from being "tenant farmers"- which was one of the other main reasons our forefathers fled the old countries.....
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
Back to you, Oldtimer. It seems that quite often in your posts you come out as anti-Christian. This bothers me, and it really bothers God. The Nine Eleven bombings come to mind. This jarred the nation enough that for the next three weeks the churches were full. People suddenly found the friendship of God quite comforting. Then complacency once again set in, and it was back to business as usual. Another incident that comes to mind is when the madman killer was on the loose in your town not too long ago. Your wife could very easily have been the next target. I think maybe a few prayers of thanksgiving were offered up to God by even you for the fact that her life was spared. But now it is back to "business as usual" and you tend to scorn any of us that proclaim ourselves to be Christians. I will pray for you. :wink: :)

Been a little busy Soap- and will be this weekend....

I'm as Christian as the next person-- but who on this earth has the right to judge who is the " GOOD CHRISTIAN" and who is the "BAD CHRISTIAN"...
What I do get upset at is the hypocrits that put themselves out as "Good Christians"- that wear their church on their sleeve- sit in the front pews so they can be seen by all, try to tell folks how to live their lives- and then turn around and get caught playing "tiptoe in the toilet" trolling for their gay lover- or flying around the world on taxpayer dollars visiting their mistress- etc. etc... I saw it so many times locally when the #1 pillar of the Church- President of the Bank- local Repub commitee Chairman- or one of the other holier than thous would be found out in a coulee at the end of the airport runway with his secretary or his partners wife in very compromising positions...

And I think the Republicans decision to put all their eggs in one basket with one segment of religious thinking as their "base"- the southern evangelical/pentacostal Christians - which Bush even tried to incorporate into his Administration--has hurt them badly- and made them look quite hypocritical on many occasions....They have became too radical for mainstream America- especially since so many know what they preach on Sunday- is not how they live their lives on Monday...

One thing I do believe in tho is the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution's reaffirmation of the establishment of NO state church/religion- and the freedom to worship whatever religion a person wants to- or in the alternative no religion.... This was one of the main reasons folks fled the old countries is to escape religious persecution....

Which takes me back to the original question- what can we do to keep the rich and elite from owning all the agriculture property- and having their fiefdoms- and all producers from being "tenant farmers"- which was one of the other main reasons our forefathers fled the old countries.....

A person's relationship with Jesus Christ is a personal matter, and He will hold each of us accountable for our own actions and words.

You do raise some very valid points, Oldtimer. One guy I am disgusted with about the last election is James Dobson, of Focus on the Family fame. He is a good Christian man, but his lofty ideals that "none of the candidates were worth voting for" didn't help the Republican cause one little bit. This goes back to common sense that even if there are only two people running for office, and neither one amounts to much, one is still "less harmful" than the other. He sulled up and said he wasn't going to vote at all. He is a man of enough influence that others followed suit. McCain isn't great but he would have kept things on a more even keel than Obama. These well-meaning, but misinformed followers of Dobson didn't help the overall state of affairs one little bit. In fact, if the truth were known, it was perhaps these people that allowed Obama to win.

Oldtimer, you claim to adhere to the policies of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States in some areas, why don't you follow their statutes in all areas? Obama's birth certificate and his legal right to even be President does come to mind. :roll:

Okay, now back to your original question: What can we do to keep the rich and elite from owning all the agriculture property- and having their fiefdoms- and all producers from being "tenant farmers"- which was one of the other main reasons our forefathers fled the old countries?

For starters, we could eliminate the inheritance tax, also known as the death tax. Many farms and ranches that are currently operating would continue to operate for several more generations into the future, except that they will get sold just to pay the inheritance tax. In many cases, when these farms and ranches are forced to sell, it will not be bonafide farmers and ranchers that buy up the properties. The "rich and elite" that you refer to will be the only ones who can afford to buy the land. The land will not be utilized in the best food production ways, but will instead become hunting preserves and grazing land for buffalo.

In some ways, if Ted Turner would lease out his vast land acquisitions to tenant farmers the communities would be better off. Large buffalo preserves really don't generate much roll-over monies for communities.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I don't buy the inheritance tax deal- as its a small issue compared to many others...I spent 30 years involved with repossessions of farms/ranchs- and just off the top of my head can't remember any one that was lost because of inheritance tax...The number one thing was DIVORCE--followed by too much debt and getting in over their head- roping and rodeoing when they should have been working....I've seen several more places that had to be sold- or parts of it sold to pay off a family members medical bills because they were unable to get health insurance....
In fact I see the opposite- as some of this big money now buying out these ranch's- and being donated to the greeny groups to buy up land- is inherited money thats been in elitite families for generations- and now being invested in land rather than the shakey markets...

Thirty minutes with an attorney and a couple hundred dollars can get your property set up into corporate, LLC, undivided partnerships, etc. etc. whereby you bypass inheritance tax (unless you're one of the hundreds of million dollar folks)...I wish rancher and Goodpasture hadn't got ran off this site- as they could explain it much better than I can...


I also don't buy into the wild rightwingernut crazies conspiracy rants about the birth certificate...First off I've seen no evidence proving any of their rants...Secondly Obama was chosen no differently than every other President before him- following the Constitution laid out guidelines for that choice-- which included 2+ years of vetting by the people- selection by a majority of the voters that voted- election by the electoral college (which to my comprehension is the only body even remotely named in the Constitution to make the decision on the qualifications of the President/VP)- which electoral college election was certified by the Vice President of the United States Cheney (acting as the President of the Senate) during a joint session of all in Congress in which not one of the 535 members raised objection- and was sworn into office by the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court- Roberts...

Do you really believe- with all the snidely and quasi legal secret things they pulled- that Bush/Cheney/Rove-- and a cadre of their people in the administration wouldn't have already stormed the globe for any evidence/proof of this claim-- and would have offered it up long before the election to keep Obama from gaining office :???:

If you buy into this "birth conspiracy" than you have to buy into that Bush/Cheney/AG Mukasy and the entire Republican party were part of it too :roll: All the rightwing "crazies" do with this conspiracy is make ALL Republicans look like nuts and sore losers- but it sells books and makes money for the Rush's, Coulters, Corsi, etc. etc- so they are going to keep pounding the drum to stir up the "followers"....
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
Okay, now back to your original question: What can we do to keep the rich and elite from owning all the agriculture property- and having their fiefdoms- and all producers from being "tenant farmers"- which was one of the other main reasons our forefathers fled the old countries?

For starters, we could eliminate the inheritance tax, also known as the death tax. Many farms and ranches that are currently operating would continue to operate for several more generations into the future, except that they will get sold just to pay the inheritance tax. In many cases, when these farms and ranches are forced to sell, it will not be bonafide farmers and ranchers that buy up the properties. The "rich and elite" that you refer to will be the only ones who can afford to buy the land. The land will not be utilized in the best food production ways, but will instead become hunting preserves and grazing land for buffalo.

In some ways, if Ted Turner would lease out his vast land acquisitions to tenant farmers the communities would be better off. Large buffalo preserves really don't generate much roll-over monies for communities.

Oldtimer said:
I don't buy the inheritance tax deal- as its a small issue compared to many others...I spent 30 years involved with repossessions of farms/ranchs- and just off the top of my head can't remember any one that was lost because of inheritance tax...The number one thing was DIVORCE--followed by too much debt and getting in over their head- roping and rodeoing when they should have been working....I've seen several more places that had to be sold- or parts of it sold to pay off a family members medical bills because they were unable to get health insurance....
In fact I see the opposite- as some of this big money now buying out these ranch's- and being donated to the greeny groups to buy up land- is inherited money thats been in elitite families for generations- and now being invested in land rather than the shakey markets...

Thirty minutes with an attorney and a couple hundred dollars can get your property set up into corporate, LLC, undivided partnerships, etc. etc. whereby you bypass inheritance tax (unless you're one of the hundreds of million dollar folks)...I wish rancher and Goodpasture hadn't got ran off this site- as they could explain it much better than I can...


I also don't buy into the wild rightwingernut crazies conspiracy rants about the birth certificate...First off I've seen no evidence proving any of their rants...Secondly Obama was chosen no differently than every other President before him- following the Constitution laid out guidelines for that choice-- which included 2+ years of vetting by the people- selection by a majority of the voters that voted- election by the electoral college (which to my comprehension is the only body even remotely named in the Constitution to make the decision on the qualifications of the President/VP)- which electoral college election was certified by the Vice President of the United States Cheney (acting as the President of the Senate) during a joint session of all in Congress in which not one of the 535 members raised objection- and was sworn into office by the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court- Roberts...

Do you really believe- with all the snidely and quasi legal secret things they pulled- that Bush/Cheney/Rove-- and a cadre of their people in the administration wouldn't have already stormed the globe for any evidence/proof of this claim-- and would have offered it up long before the election to keep Obama from gaining office :???:

If you buy into this "birth conspiracy" than you have to buy into that Bush/Cheney/AG Mukasy and the entire Republican party were part of it too :roll: All the rightwing "crazies" do with this conspiracy is make ALL Republicans look like nuts and sore losers- but it sells books and makes money for the Rush's, Coulters, Corsi, etc. etc- so they are going to keep pounding the drum to stir up the "followers"....

Well, you asked the question and I gave an honest answer. Your reasons of divorce, too much debt, and medical bills also pertain, but no more so than the high inheritance taxes that play such a big part in making it impossible for otherwise viable farming and ranching operations to continue to stay in business. You ask, "what can be done about it?" It is hard to "do anything" about peoples' personal lives, so that makes it hard to interfere with factors causing divorce, bad debt, or unhealthy lifestyles that contribute to high medical bills. Therefore, one of the few things that "we" can do anything about that matters, is to eliminate the inheritance tax on passing assets from one generation to the next. Goodness knows, plenty of taxes on these assets have been paid in the past already.

Back to the legality of Obama even being in office, here are some things to consider. Our nation's two worst enemies in recent times, as far as individual people go, were Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. When a United States presidential candidate is packing the name Barack Hussein Obama, and has strong Muslim ties, wouldn't common sense signify that maybe this man wouldn't be our best choice as President, whether he is "legal" or not? If his name was still Barry Soetoro it would not set off quite as many red flags.

Sometimes gut instinct goes a long ways in preventing future troubles. Liberals riding full speed ahead shouting their war cry, "Change!" could end up charging right off over a cliff. Yes, we old stick-in-the-mud conservatives get scoffed at a lot, but we are more like the horses that the Liberals are riding. We have enough sense to not stumble through the night, going too fast on unfamiliar treacherous footing. Give us our heads, and we will bring you home safely. :)
 
Top