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Foster care is better?

CattleArmy

Well-known member
McCain Assailed For Gay Adoption Stand
by The Associated Press

Posted: July 15, 2008 - 5:00 pm ET

(New York City) Advocates for gay and lesbian families are denouncing Sen. John McCain, an adoptive father himself, for opposing adoptions by gays, which prompted his presidential campaign to clarify Tuesday that he does not seek a federal ban on the practice. Only one state, Florida, outlaws gay adoptions, which have become commonplace in much of the nation.

The Republican nominee-in-waiting was asked for his views on the subject in an interview published Sunday in The New York Times.

"I think that we've proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no, I don't believe in gay adoption," McCain replied.McCain then remarked that he and his wife, Cindy, were proud to be adoptive parents of a daughter born in Bangladesh, and he encouraged others to adopt. Asked if those adopting should be a "traditional couple," McCain answered, "Yes."

The responses were condemned by gay and lesbian groups.

"He's completely out of touch," said Kara Suffredini, public policy director for the Family Equality Council. "There's no reason, except for the sake of red meat for his base, to throw up screens in the way of children in foster care getting homes."

Jody Huckaby, executive director of Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, said McCain's comments were especially dismaying because more than 100,000 children are in foster care waiting to be adopted.
"Sen. McCain would deny loving homes to children who desperately need them simply because of an outdated prejudice about what a family may look like," Huckaby said.
On Tuesday, as criticism of McCain's comments spread, his campaign elaborated on the candidate's views.

"John McCain could have been clearer in the interview in stating that his position on gay adoption is that it is a state issue. ... He was not endorsing any federal legislation," a campaign statement said.

"Sen. McCain's expressed his personal preference for children to be raised by a mother and a father wherever possible," the statement added. "However, as an adoptive father himself, McCain believes children deserve loving and caring home environments, and he recognizes that there are many abandoned children who have yet to find homes. John McCain believes that in those situations that caring parental figures are better for the child than the alternative."

An estimated 65,000 children have been adopted by gays and lesbians, according to advocacy groups. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association and the National Association of Social Workers, among other groups, have expressed support for gay adoptions."It is an insult to these professionals and the children whom they represent to suggest that the door should be closed to people other than a 'traditional' married couple," said Ellen Kahn, who coordinates family-related projects for the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay rights group.

Adam Pertman, executive director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, said McCain "needs to read the research and rethink his comments."
"His implication is that every adopted child should have a mother and father," Pertman added. "That may be the ideal, but if we stick to it, we would have far fewer homes for kids. Single people - gay and straight - represent a significant number of adoptive parents."States have widely varying laws regarding adoption by same-sex couples, but only Florida has a law explicitly banning gays and lesbians from adopting as individuals.

Conservative activists in Arkansas have been working to get a similar ban on the ballot in November, but have struggled to generate public support. Earlier this month, they turned in a petition with 65,899 signatures - only slightly more than the required number and well under the initial goal of 100,000 signatures.

Recent national polls suggest that support for the concept of gay adoption is growing. A 2006 poll by the Pew Research Center found a near-even split on the issue; a 2007 poll by CNN and Opinion Research Corp. said 57 percent of respondents felt gays should have the right to adopt, while 40 percent said they shouldn't.
A gay adoptive father in Atlanta, Ken Manford, said he and his partner have felt strong support and acceptance from neighbors and acquaintances since they adopted a son from Guatemala nearly seven years ago.

"If Sen. McCain came and sat down with us, I'd tell him we've proven that both parents are important in our family," Manford said. "It doesn't matter that both those parents are men."

McCain's Democratic rival, Barack Obama, supports adoption rights for gays and lesbians.
 

fff

Well-known member
But he's changed his mind.....again.

Just days after coming out against gay adoption, Senator John McCain has sent out his staff with an Obama-like correction that could have been lifted from Bob Barr's supposed change of heart on DOMA:

From Politics1:

Speaking over the weekend to the New York Times, John McCain (R) said "I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no, I don’t believe in gay adoption." On Tuesday, McCain's campaign spokesperson issued a formal statement clarifying (i.e., changing) the candidate's position. The new stance: "McCain could have been clearer in the interview in stating that his position on gay adoption is that it is a state issue, just as he made it clear in the interview that marriage is a state issue. He was not endorsing any federal legislation. McCain's expressed his personal preference for children to be raised by a mother and a father wherever possible. However, as an adoptive father himself, McCain believes children deserve loving and caring home environments, and he recognizes that there are many abandoned children who have yet to find homes. McCain believes that in those situations that caring parental figures are better for the child than the alternative."

This is more properly called the "Oops, Senator, we still haven't taken away their right to vote, so just in case" moment.

http://delawarelibertarian.blogspot.com/2008/07/john-mccain-proves-he-can-flip-flop.html

Perhaps McCain had second thoughts, considering he left his own three children to be raised by a single parent when he married the young, attractive beer heiress.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
McCain’s Adoption Contradiction
By John Corvino

Here’s the latest for the “politicians trying to have it both ways” file: John McCain on gay adoption.

McCain made clear that he opposes it. Here’s the relevant portion of the interview in full:

Q: “President Bush believes that gay couples should not be permitted to adopt children. Do you agree with that?”

McCain: “I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no I don’t believe in gay adoption.”

Q: “Even if the alternative is the kid staying in an orphanage, or not having parents?”

McCain: “I encourage adoption and I encourage the opportunities for people to adopt children; I encourage the process being less complicated so they can adopt as quickly as possible. And Cindy and I are proud of being adoptive parents.”

Q: “But your concern would be that the couple should be a traditional couple?”

McCain: “Yes.”

A few days later, after considerable criticism, McCain’s Director of Communications issued the following “clarification”:

“McCain expressed his personal preference for children to be raised by a mother and a father wherever possible. However, as an adoptive father himself, McCain believes children deserve loving and caring home environments, and he recognizes that there are many abandoned children who have yet to find homes. McCain believes that in those situations that caring parental figures are better for the child than the alternative.”
Let’s start by making something clear: nobody gives a flying wallenda what McCain’s (or any other candidate’s) “personal preferences” are. My personal preference is that children be raised by parents who dress them in tasteful Ralph Lauren sweater sets, but I’m not about to translate that into public policy.

Second, the follow-up question in the initial interview could not have been clearer—”Even if the alternative is the kid staying in an orphanage?”—and, at best, McCain punted on that question. Given the thousands of children in need of good homes—often due to heterosexual irresponsibility—and the number of gay couples selflessly stepping up to the plate to provide for them, McCain’s response was nothing short of shameful.

McCain’s “clarification” just added insult to injury. Through an aide, he went out on a major limb and said—are you ready?—that having “caring parental figures” is better for children than abandonment. Now there’s some bold leadership for you. (Notice that the campaign couldn’t even bring itself to mention gay parents—just “caring parental figures.”)

Everyone knows what’s really going on here. McCain is trying to impress the religious right by being against gay stuff. But in the year 2008, insulting gay parents isn’t cool in the eyes of moderate voters. So he flip-flopped—but in a vague enough way that he can pretend he didn’t.
Let’s suppose one believes, as McCain apparently does, that all else being equal it is better for children to be raised by both a mother and a father. I think this is a defensible position, although the best available research on gay parents suggests that their children turn out just as well as those of straight parents. But let’s grant the premise for the sake of argument.

What follows with respect to gay adoption? In practice, virtually nothing. That’s because even if—all else being equal, which it seldom is—straight couples make better parents, gay couples clearly make very good parents, and adoption is one arena where we cannot afford to make the best the enemy of the good.

Indeed, parenting in general is such an arena. Otherwise no one would be fit to have children.

In general, children do better with more-educated parents than with less educated ones, but we don’t conclude that all prospective parents must have college degrees. In general, children do better with comfortable financial resources than with meager ones, but we don’t insist that prospective parents must have higher-than-average incomes. In general, children do better with grandparents around, but we don’t tell orphans that they themselves should never become parents. And so on.

Here’s another thing that research and common sense tell us: in general, children who are planned do better than children who are “accidental.” And unlike straight couples, gay couples never say “Oops, we’re pregnant.” So perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised that children of gay parents do as well as they do.

I’m not suggesting that children of gay parents don’t face unique challenges. But the main one happens to be other people’s ignorance. When such ignorance comes from an adoptive father, it’s surprising. When it comes from a potential president, it’s unacceptable
 

Cal

Well-known member
When priests have been given too much free access to children the rates of sexual abuse have been astounding. So does it not at least rate a red flag that putting children into a home with two gay men could be unnecesarilly dangerous?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Cal said:
When priests have been given too much free access to children the rates of sexual abuse have been astounding. So does it not at least rate a red flag that putting children into a home with two gay men could be unnecesarilly dangerous?

***Clearing throat getting ready to give Cal a "sex talk". *** Don't get excited not that kind! :oops: :eek:

Cal when another man loves a man and wants to have physical relations with that man then those individuals are refered to as homosexuals. A homosexual man is turned on by another man. Being turned on by a man leads that man to then want to engage in sexual relations with the man.

Do you ever see the word child in that?

Homosexuals are turned on by adults of the same sex.

Heterosexuals are turned on by adults of the opposite sex.

Pediophiles are the ones turned on by children that go on to molest them.

Since some you you like to give me little names of endearment after this call me Dr. Cattlearmy. :)




It is no more dangerous to put a child in a homosexual home then a heterosexual home. Pediophiles are the wackjobs that wanna have inappropriate contact with children.
 

Cal

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Cal said:
When priests have been given too much free access to children the rates of sexual abuse have been astounding. So does it not at least rate a red flag that putting children into a home with two gay men could be unnecesarilly dangerous?

***Clearing throat getting ready to give Cal a "sex talk". *** Don't get excited not that kind! :oops: :eek:

Cal when another man loves a man and wants to have physical relations with that man then those individuals are refered to as homosexuals. A homosexual man is turned on by another man. Being turned on by a man leads that man to then want to engage in sexual relations with the man.

Do you ever see the word child in that?

Homosexuals are turned on by adults of the same sex.

Heterosexuals are turned on by adults of the opposite sex.

Pediophiles are the ones turned on by children that go on to molest them.

Since some you you like to give me little names of endearment after this call me Dr. Cattlearmy. :)




It is no more dangerous to put a child in a homosexual home then a heterosexual home. Pediophiles are the wackjobs that wanna have inappropriate contact with children.
Dear Dr. Cow :wink: , honestly, just my opinion, but I predict that as time goes by there will be more pedophiles in homosexual relationships having access to children if this trend continues. Children will probably not fare badly or be at as much risk, esp. compared to a situation in which they are removed from a home, with two women, but two men.....it's just too bad that children are part of another unnatural social experiment that is prime ground for predators. What an easy way for pedophiles to gain access to children than to do it in pairs.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Cal said:
Dear Dr. Cow :wink: , honestly, just my opinion, but I predict that as time goes by there will be more pedophiles in homosexual relationships having access to children if this trend continues.

Dear Calvin:

There is one crutial error in your opinion (as if that shocks me :wink: ). Pediophiles and homosexuals are different. I'll type slower this time giving you time to sound out the big words this time. :p Pediophiles are attracted to children of either the same sex or opposite sex of the pediophile. Homosexuals are attracted to adults of the same sex.

Dr. CattleArmy or as you fondly refer to me as Dr. Cow

(Big sigh) Awwwwwwww Be still my heart Calvin has a pet name for me now too. :heart:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Cal said:
Dear Dr. Cow :wink: , honestly, just my opinion, but I predict that as time goes by there will be more pedophiles in homosexual relationships having access to children if this trend continues.

Dear Calvin:

There is one crutial error in your opinion (as if that shocks me :wink: ). Pediophiles and homosexuals are different. I'll type slower this time giving you time to sound out the big words this time. :p Pediophiles are attracted to children of either the same sex or opposite sex of the pediophile. Homosexuals are attracted to adults of the same sex.

Dr. CattleArmy or as you fondly refer to me as Dr. Cow

(Big sigh) Awwwwwwww Be still my heart Calvin has a pet name for me now too. :heart:



OH no...what do you call those folks that love their pets just a wee bit too much!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Run.....CA....Run.....Run fast!!
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Sandhusker said:
When your lifestyle revolves around one sexual perversion, what's stopping you from another?

The law? :???:

Now that I've had time to think on this Sandhusker I have a more thought out response. If you'd like to classify being gay as a sexual perversion then I can be sorta kinda ok with that but the thing stopping gays or even heterosexuals from going on to children is that pediophiles are wacked out(or just sickos) that are turned on by children.

As a heterosexual I cannot imagine (shutter) the thought of another woman touching me in intimate ways. As from having a very dear friend that is homosexual told me he shutters to think of a woman in an intimate way. I just don't think one can change their sexual orientation.

Read the paper and most pediophiles that they let out are a level 3 - highly likely to commit the same act again. See it seems to me that most here to quickly think omg gay pediophiles. But see a person is heterosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual (just kinky), and unfortunatly there are those sick twisted messed up sicko pediophiles. Let's just not lump gays into a group that is responsible for taking childhoods away from children. You and I wouldn't like it either if a group looked at heterosexuals in this light either.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Sorry to tell you CA, but the balance of Pedophiles that are also gay is very unbalanced. I believe one study showed that like 40% of the pedophiles in their study were also gay. Even though the number of Homosexuals is a lot less percentage per capita.

I have also wondered if a man that is attracted to another man is born that way as most supporters of the homosexual way of life believe, then would that mean that a man that is attracted to a child was also born that way?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Sorry to tell you CA, but the balance of Pedophiles that are also gay is very unbalanced. I believe one study showed that like 40% of the pedophiles in their study were also gay. Even though the number of Homosexuals is a lot less percentage per capita.

I have also wondered if a man that is attracted to another man is born that way as most supporters of the homosexual way of life believe, then would that mean that a man that is attracted to a child was also born that way?

Aplus peidophiles and homosexuals cannot be lumped as one group. Heterosexuals turn out to be pediophiles also.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
aplusmnt said:
Sorry to tell you CA, but the balance of Pedophiles that are also gay is very unbalanced. I believe one study showed that like 40% of the pedophiles in their study were also gay. Even though the number of Homosexuals is a lot less percentage per capita.

I have also wondered if a man that is attracted to another man is born that way as most supporters of the homosexual way of life believe, then would that mean that a man that is attracted to a child was also born that way?

Aplus peidophiles and homosexuals cannot be lumped as one group. Heterosexuals turn out to be pediophiles also.

Thing is if Homosexuals make up like say 5% of the population but 40% of pedophiles are Homosexuals then there is a very strong connection between pedophiles and homosexuals.

Ps. You did not answer my question, if Homosexuals are born that way, would that mean that pedophiles are also born that way?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
http://www.apa.org/releases/sexabuse/perpetrators.html


Who are the Perpetrators of Child Sexual Abuse?

Studies on who commits child sexual abuse vary in their findings, but the most common finding is that the majority of sexual offenders are family members or are otherwise known to the child. Sexual abuse by strangers is not nearly as common as sexual abuse by family members. Research further shows that men perpetrate most instances of sexual abuse, but there are cases in which women are the offenders. Despite a common myth, homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Aplus in trying to respond to your question I have read several articles and there is research that suggests there is a brain difference in pediophiles, some research suggests it's lower IQ people with no social skills, one study found more often is short stature men, and there is even research that suggests it's people who have been abused themselves as children. I don't have an answer.

Even if it was that there was genetic differences it is more to me like rapist mind then the mind of a homosexual. What makes a rapist rape are they born with an uncontolled urge or is it outside influences? In both rape and molestation there is a lack of conscent and a victim.
 
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