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Four CIA chiefs said 'don't reveal torture memos'

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Four CIA chiefs said 'don't reveal torture memos'

Agency's ex-directors objected to interrogation techniques being revealed. But Barack Obama went ahead anyway.

By Pamela Hess

Sunday, 19 April 2009

Former CIA directors General Michael Hayden (above), Porter Goss, George Tenet and John Deutch fought the White House over release of embarrassing documents

Former CIA directors General Michael Hayden (above), Porter Goss, George Tenet and John Deutch fought the White House over release of embarrassing documents

Four former CIA directors opposed the release of classified Bush-era interrogation memos, officials say, describing objections that went all the way to the White House and slowed disclosure of the records. Former CIA chiefs Michael Hayden, Porter Goss, George Tenet and John Deutch all called the White House in March warning that release of the so-called "torture memos" would compromise intelligence operations, current and former officials say.

President Barack Obama ultimately overruled the objections after internal discussions that intensified in the weeks that followed the former directors' intervention. The memos were released on Thursday.

Mr Obama's involvement grew as the decision neared, and he even led a National Security Council session on the matter, four senior administration officials said. White House adviser David Axelrod, who said he also talked to Mr Obama about the pending release of the memos in recent weeks, said the ex-directors' opposition was considered seriously but did not impede the decision-making process. "The CIA directors weighed in and it slowed things down," Mr Axelrod said on Friday.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/four-cia-chiefs-said-dont-reveal-torture-memos-1671068.html
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
""The CIA directors weighed in and it slowed things down," Mr Axelrod said on Friday. "

Interpretation: We were going to do it anyway no matter what anybody thought or said.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Cost/Benefit analysis 101

What if the CIA is right (would compromise intelligence operations) , what would the possible cost/benefits be to the American people, and we still release the documents?

What if they are wrong, what would be the possible cost/benefits to the American people and we still release the documents?

The American people got the political benefit and Obama is willing to pay the price! Very dangerous game these people are playing!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Much of this had already came out in Congressional and Court Hearings- as far as the techniques and such...Some had been released in the International Investigations/Reports..... The only new thing I see here is verification that it was authorized from the highest of Authority-- the same one that stood before the American people and said :

“This country doesn't torture. We're not going to torture,” Bush said. ~ October 27, 2006

Much of it had also been reported in the Taguba Report- a summary of the investigation which was headed up by US Army Major General Antonio Taguba:

In 2004, Taguba was assigned to head an investigation into accusations of prisoner abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Taguba became known worldwide when the Taguba Report, a classified, internal U.S. Army report on the investigation, was leaked to the public and published to national attention.The report was extremely critical of U.S. Army conduct and found widespread negligence and abuse.

In June 2008, Taguba was again in the headlines when he wrote the preface to a report by Physicians for Human Rights on prisoner abuse and torture at Abu Ghraib prison, in Guantanamo Bay, and in Afghanistan. In it, he accused the Bush administration of committing war crimes and called for the prosecution of those responsible. He wrote, "There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account...

The release of these memos answers that question as to who ordered/authorized what many believe were war crimes.....
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
So you disagree with the 4 chiefs then? Is there any possibility they might be correct?

All I've been able to see that was released is an admission that the US government broke US and International Law- but most of the world was already aware of it.....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Then go right ahead and discount what the CIA chiefs have said.

If there was any possibility in them being correct, then an admission of what you just posted and an apology would have sufficed.

Any possibility of a risk, due to releasing the documents, would be reason to seal them, not advertise them.

The benefit was political, nothing but. The risks (however minimal), well the American people own those!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Then go right ahead and discount what the CIA chiefs have said.

If there was any possibility in them being correct, then an admission of what you just posted and an apology would have sufficed.

Any possibility of a risk, due to releasing the documents, would be reason to seal them, not advertise them.

The benefit was political, nothing but. The risks (however minimal), well the American people own those!

Much of this past election was centered on what "illegal acts" the US did- and "who" authorized it....This was one thing the US public wanted to know...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I get it OT, the CIA chiefs are full of bunk!

They are the ones being political, and not saying anything worth listening to.

You're right! They were probably smart enough to understand Axelrod's statement also, "keep your objections to yourself, you don't know what you're talking about"

"We were going to do it anyway no matter what anybody thought or said."

I'd love to work for a boss like that, what leadership!
 

Texan

Well-known member
In spite of all of Obama's big talk about how he is interested in "looking forward," the truth becomes more and more clear all the time. The only thing he is interested in is placing blame in an attempt to make himself look better. His stupid actions in this matter have probably made our enemies laugh out loud.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sounds like a case of CYA to me...There has already been testimony in Congress that not only do these CIA officials that committed the acts but also those Senior Administration officials (including Bush/Cheney) that authorized the use of torture contrary to international law-- run a high risk of being indicted in International courts as War Criminals...

And what more revelations do they know of :???: Was their more violiations of International and US Military Law authorized :???:

Hayden also dismissed Obama's controversial promise not to seek prosecution of CIA agents or former officials under President George W. Bush who authorized or carried out the harsh techniques the government now condemns.



"Oh, God no, it's not the end of it," Hayden said, warning of possible civil lawsuits or congressional probes targetting CIA agents who relied on the Bush-era memos to carry out harsh interrogations.



"There will be more revelations. There will be more commissions. There will be more investigations," he said.

Janet Napolitano, Obama's homeland security minister, defended the decision.



"When you look at the great public need for accountability and responsibility and transparency here, and when you look at our desire to close the book on this regrettable chapter and move the country forward, it was imperative, really, that the reports be released," she said on CNN.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
Taguba is a Bing...that's all anybody with experience dealing with Bings needs to know.


The investigation team which wrote the report was commissioned by Lt Gen Sanchez and headed up by Maj Gen Tagabu and also included Maj General Ryder- Commander of the Provost Marshals Office, Major General Geoffrey D. Miller, Commander, Joint Task Force Guantanamo (JTF-GTMO), COL Kinard J. La Fate of the Provost Marshals Office was chosen as Deputy Commander for the investigation..
Others included Lt Col Timothy Weathersbee, Commander, 705th MP Battalion, United States Disciplinary Barracks, Fort Leavenworth, SFC Edward Baldwin, Senior Corrections Advisor, US Army Military Police School, Fort Leonard Wood, Col (Dr) Henry Nelson, a trained US Air Force psychiatrist. Hundreds of other junior officers and enlisted men made up the rest of the investigating team....

loomixguy-- Are these all Bings too :???:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
OT, thought you might be interested in this interview with former CIA Director Hayden, speaking about the release of these documents.

Very balanced interview.

http://www.thehopeforamerica.com/play.php?id=891
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Much of this had already came out in Congressional and Court Hearings- as far as the techniques and such...Some had been released in the International Investigations/Reports..... The only new thing I see here is verification that it was authorized from the highest of Authority-- the same one that stood before the American people and said :

“This country doesn't torture. We're not going to torture,” Bush said. ~ October 27, 2006

Much of it had also been reported in the Taguba Report- a summary of the investigation which was headed up by US Army Major General Antonio Taguba:

In 2004, Taguba was assigned to head an investigation into accusations of prisoner abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Taguba became known worldwide when the Taguba Report, a classified, internal U.S. Army report on the investigation, was leaked to the public and published to national attention.The report was extremely critical of U.S. Army conduct and found widespread negligence and abuse.

In June 2008, Taguba was again in the headlines when he wrote the preface to a report by Physicians for Human Rights on prisoner abuse and torture at Abu Ghraib prison, in Guantanamo Bay, and in Afghanistan. In it, he accused the Bush administration of committing war crimes and called for the prosecution of those responsible. He wrote, "There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account...

The release of these memos answers that question as to who ordered/authorized what many believe were war crimes.....

OT....go read the offical definition of torture. Still open to interpretation as to whether water boarding is really torture.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
OT, I have another question you still didn't answer. I'll put it a different way.

If what you say is correct, that this information was already in the news etc, and Obama has said the same thing.

What was the purpose of releasing information that was already public knowledge?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
TexasBred said:
Oldtimer said:
Much of this had already came out in Congressional and Court Hearings- as far as the techniques and such...Some had been released in the International Investigations/Reports..... The only new thing I see here is verification that it was authorized from the highest of Authority-- the same one that stood before the American people and said :

“This country doesn't torture. We're not going to torture,” Bush said. ~ October 27, 2006

Much of it had also been reported in the Taguba Report- a summary of the investigation which was headed up by US Army Major General Antonio Taguba:

In 2004, Taguba was assigned to head an investigation into accusations of prisoner abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Taguba became known worldwide when the Taguba Report, a classified, internal U.S. Army report on the investigation, was leaked to the public and published to national attention.The report was extremely critical of U.S. Army conduct and found widespread negligence and abuse.

In June 2008, Taguba was again in the headlines when he wrote the preface to a report by Physicians for Human Rights on prisoner abuse and torture at Abu Ghraib prison, in Guantanamo Bay, and in Afghanistan. In it, he accused the Bush administration of committing war crimes and called for the prosecution of those responsible. He wrote, "There is no longer any doubt that the current administration committed war crimes. The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account...

The release of these memos answers that question as to who ordered/authorized what many believe were war crimes.....

OT....go read the offical definition of torture. Still open to interpretation as to whether water boarding is really torture.

The Military Code says it is and by International Law its been recognized as such....If you watched some of the Congressional Hearings on this- Rumsfeld had to dig down thru the JAG office until he got a lowly Capt. that would write him a favoring opinion- which then Rumsfeld and crew accepted as Gospel....The Military/Pentagon, as a whole, opposed it....

One of the reasons General Tagabu's report is so critical of the Bush Administration is that the Military knew this was violation of all laws they and the allied nations militaries operated under...

Even if the bad guy didn't follow the rules- we as a nation of laws were above lowering ourselves to their levels....

Our government... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.
Louis D. Brandeis
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.
Louis D. Brandeis

Hypocrit- in answer to your question- this probably is the best:

Janet Napolitano, Obama's homeland security minister, defended the decision.

"When you look at the great public need for accountability and responsibility and transparency here, and when you look at our desire to close the book on this regrettable chapter and move the country forward, it was imperative, really, that the reports be released," she said on CNN.

The what happeneds were already known (?) ...Only the who done its and who authorized it were unknown because of the lies and deception....
I'm wondering what other "revelations" ex CIA Chief Hayden is so worried about coming out.. What other laws were broken when GW threw out the Constitution and this countries rule of laws...... :???:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
OT, that still not answer my question.

What the "Napper" is saying is that they needed to place blame!

If this administration and Obama specifically, was so interested in transparency and accountability when it comes to National Security, then it makes sense that he would quell the rumors about his legitimacy.

Transparency, it was already public record through the media, as you said.

All they did was confirm rumors, for political gain, by placing blame.

And meanwhile the bad guys are saying to themselves, yep the newspapers were correct. When the newspapers condemn Obama for be lax on national security, are they also agreeing?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Thats what much of this election was over- thats what they've been holding Congressional Hearings over- thats what Congressmen (both Dem and Repub) have been asking in those hearings...
This might not have been such an issue if when Congress asked for them- they had been allowed to see those memos-- but even they weren't...So much for our 3 Branch government....

What happened- what laws were violated and Who is to blame for violating those laws :???: ....Lowly military men went to prison for torturing prisoners at Abu Gharib prison....Should the top people- that authorized that type of mentality then be let to get away totally unidentified :???: ..

If you read Tagabu's and the World Red Cross report they place a major part of the blame for the military abuses on the fact that these type actions had been authorized and were being promoted and carried out in the prisons in front of the military personnel by the CIA officials ...So naturally they thought if its OK for the CIA to do it- why not us...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
You have not changed my opinion on it one bit.

It is a political move, plain and simple. A simple test would be to ask yourself what is gained by making this information public, before having all the facts.

And if they are still having commisions/commitees to re-write/confirm the "manual", in a time of war, and there is ANY possible risk to National Security, then these are closed door discussions.
 
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