From an "expert"

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Your socialist point of view doesn't hold water with me. It's my money. I worked for it, I own it. You can spend yours whatever way you like. If you drink pop, you're using corn syrup which takes grain off of the world market, driving the price up so some poor person can't afford to eat. Living in Canada is less efficient than living in Arkansas. You have to run your heat more days than I do. You're wasting "fossil" fuel and I'm not. From your line of reasoning it's more "moral" to live here than there. Your argument isn't very well thought out.

How is what Kato said "socialist"? He never mentioned that government should regulate the use of gas guzzlers, just that he feels that people should utilize the vehicles and resources at their disposal in a more responsible manner. Thats not socialism at all, but plain old common sense.

People in Canada get offended when being called socialist because the people calling us that really don't have the slightest idea what socialism is. We live in a DEMOCRACY, one which many political scientists feel is more democratic than your republic. Do we have social programs? Of course we do. But so do you. Actually for every one of our social programs, you have a matching one down south. You have additional ones that we don't have. Hell, CARB and CAFE are American inventions. Subsidizing ethanol production was also an American idea.

So whose more socialist?

Anyway, to get back to the point of this thread, this ethanol craze will eventually die down when politicians come to their senses. I do however believe that growing our fuel is something that can be accomplished without hurting the world's poor. A few years back, Bio-diesels were on the verge of breaking through some of the issues surrounding its use, however much government funding was cut to the researchers. Certain key patents were also purchased by, you guessed it, oil companies, effectively eliminating their use by anyone.

We also have other options in the form of recycling oils (cooking, etc) for use in vehicles. There are alot of BTUs of energy currently being poured down the sink or fired into land fills each day. It doesn't take much investment to recycle these oils into a decent fuel. Its still not a match for dino oil, but its certainly much more efficient than the production of ethanol.

Rod

 

[Bward]

I'd like to see them make fuel out of unusable stuff like animal guts and garbage. Using edible food to make fuel is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Kato]

It's socialistic because man-made global warming is a hoax!!!
Where were the SUVs that melted the last Ice Age?????????

What does global warming have to do with socialism? :???:

There's nothing socialist in what I'm saying. Socialism is a political system, not a lable for anything that involves people working together. :? Since when is it evil when people put their efforts into one common cause for the good of all? :???: :???:

BMR understands what I'm saying. Big fuel consuming vehicles are a necessity, but not to bring groceries a half a mile from the supermarket to the apartment block. :roll: :roll: They should be used for business. If there is a job that a smaller vehicle can do as well as a truck or SUV, then it should be the vehicle of choice. Even a rancher a long way from town would be surprised how much money can be saved by having an economical vehicle to use when the truck isn't needed. We figure we've added years to our trucks by using the car when possible for the running around stuff. That's money in the pocket, because the car is a lot cheaper to replace than that big old truck. :shock:

Say we want to go to Winnipeg to visit family. Do we take the truck, and use $80.00 worth of gas, or do we use the car and use $25.00? It's just common sense. Add stuff like that up over a few million people, and the demand for gas diminishes pretty quick, to say nothing of the price.

There are also other ways to reduce fossil fuel consumption that we have options to use too.

There are lots of places where digesters are being used to recapture methane from livestock manure. The methane is used to produce power that can make some operations self sufficient. This is a technology that almost all of us could make good use of. We all have access to the raw materials, that's for sure. 8)

Imagine if every farmyard and feedlot used this as a normal part of their operations? There is lots of technology out there that can reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. It just takes a change of mindset.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Trust me Kato...I get what your saying too. Alberta :roll: The oil boom seems to give every oil field worker AND thier wives the idea they HAVE to own big dually 4by4's or the pimped out SUV's,the bigger the better.The oil field workers don't use thier trucks at work,so its just a "class" thing :roll:

Nothing wrong with looking after ones enviorment,I believe God wants it that way.

 

[Red Robin]

I have always said, and continue to say that as long as there are people in this world who are starving, it is immoral to use food crops to run cars.

Jumping in a Hummer to run two blocks to the grocery store is just plain shameful . Any pleasure vehicle that gets less than 40 mpg should be parked .

This doesn't sound like we should work together , this sounds like Kato thinks it's his decision what to do with my money. It's not. As far as your democracy being more or less democratic than my republic, my republic isn't a republic any more and the once great capitalistic nation that encouraged individual freedom and personal responsibility is dead. We now live in a nation where creekstone can't test cattle, we can't build refineries reasonably, you can't keep game and fish off your property if you so choose and eminent domain laws trump private ownership "for the good of the people". We are socialist and I hate it but certainly so are you, you just don't recognize it. America is no longer the land of the free and home of the brave but rather it's become the land of the fee and the home of the slave. It's thinking like the majority here on this thread that has created the problem.

BTW Kato, is it immoral to use that grain to feed cattle to finish when people are starving in the world?

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Here's a definition of socialism:

Socialism - refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community.[1] This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.

One of the reasons why Canadians are offended when we are called "socialist" is because the negative connotation associated with what is essentially a pretty good idea. Karl Marx and Hitler come to mind immediately.

Right now, in North America, we don't even remotely have a socialist society. While I certainly agree that we don't have a good democracy anymore, corporate ownership of government policy is certainly not socialist. I'm not even sure what the proper definition of what we have is, other than "capitalism gone awry".

Rod

 

[Mrs.Greg]

have a hard time buying into a socialist society when we have boys and gals dieing in Afghanistan and Iraq, red robin..greg

 

[Anonymous]

Actually over the past few years with our government turning more and more to being controlled by the corporate world-and the multinational traders- and the fact that our leaders are now using a common enemy (Muslims) and fearmongering as an excuse to take away rights and give itself more power- while also aiding the profiteering of the large corporations--I believe we have became more of a Fascist State...

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

 

[gcreekrch]

Kato, Do you know where there is info on anerobic digesters. They interest me but I'm curious as to conversion rates etc . Does anyone feel that one would fit in a non-feedlot situation.
I too can't figure out how owning a vehicle with a lower fuel consumption makes us "socialistic". :???: Maybe the folks down south actually have income tax problems and have to burn more fuel to avoid it. 8) :roll:

 

[fedup2]

One day a fairly large group of us were sitting around a table in a small town coffee shop. Mostly farmer-ranchers. I say that because in my area most raise crops and cattle. An older couple from a neighboring town went driving by with their new motor home. One of the farmers made a remark as to how stupid the guy was to own a $100,000 motor home that he could only use 5 months out of the year.. Besides, he said, he was burning up a lot of unnecessary gas and that shouldn't be allowed.

I asked him, what do you suppose that guy thinks of your $250,000 combine that you only use two weeks out of the year? I got a sneer but no answer.
I told him that I knew the guy & that he worked hard all of his life just so he could retire and spend a little time at the lake. Unlike the guy that made the remark, this guy didn't run to every auction sale in the country, every free coke & hotdog give-away, & every sporting event in the country. He had his retirement coming and should be able to enjoy it however he damn well pleased.

This guy's son then started in saying that people shouldn't be allowed those big houses either. They were using our fuel to heat them. He said each person, depending on the size of the family should only be allowed so many square feet of living space!
Now, listening to those two guys, what would you call them? Put your label here----

Kato wrote "[The only big vehicles on the road should be vehicles that are actually working, like trucks. Jumping in a Hummer to run two blocks to the grocery store is just plain shameful. Any pleasure vehicle that gets less than 40 mpg should be parked.]"
Put your label here ---------

If someone has to be labeled, what difference does it make what side of the border they live on? Did you see any similarity between the two lines of thought?
So why this remark "[Always get a chuckle out of "some" of the Americans that don't like "something" the Canucks say...they throw in the "socialistic" word."]

Why is it so wrong to have COOL in beef, but require it for every word or thought on this site?

My disclaimer: I am only dealing with the message here and not the messenger. I enjoy reading the posts of some of the posters I am quoting, I just happen to disagree with them on this one & I don't see where the country of origin of the posters has anything to do with this particular conversation!

 

[mrj]

It would be very good to be able to find vehicles getting better fuel mileage AND tough enough to survive at least ten years on western SD trails, dirt, gravel, and rough old asphalt roads common here.

Reasonable comfort and carrying capacity would be necessary, too. Living 7 miles from my mail drop (local postoffice), 32 miles from school/county seat/medical and modest business services; plus being 70 to 120 miles from major business/medical communitiesl, we do quite a bit of driving.

Almost never going just 'for fun' is about the only way to cut costs, tho we could probably could cut most medical and business trips to bi-monthly if problems would cooperate.

What do most of you consider adequate or reasonable mileage?

OT, do you completely discount the radical Islamists' own statements that they ARE going to either convert or kill those who do not agree with and accept their ways.......with a major focus on the USA?

mrj

 

[Anonymous]

OT, do you completely discount the radical Islamists' own statements that they ARE going to either convert or kill those who do not agree with and accept their ways.......with a major focus on the USA?

mrj

Must not be much of a danger- since our leadership refuses to follow their duty under the Constitution and secure our Borders and Ports from any illegal invader who wants to gain access- or bring into this country any type WMD they want to--just so the corporates and the rich elitists can have cheap semi slave labor.... :???:

 

[RobertMac]

fedup2, good post...as usual!!

a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community.

Kato, when "the community" is going to tell me how to spend my money, I call that socialism.

It's socialistic because man-made global warming is a hoax!!!
Where were the SUVs that melted the last Ice Age?????????

Global climate change has been a fact since the beginning of the planet. The idea that man can influence or stop climate change is the hoax. The hoax is being used so "the community" can tell me how to spend my money!!!!
I think it was in the early 1970s that the same people that are promoting global warming were predicting global cooling and a 'new ice-age'!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock:

By the way, I have a big GMC 4x4 3/4 ton 6.5 turbo diesel....





and a small toyota pickup!!! :shock: :shock:
Guess which one I drive all the time????????

You would think that with the price of fuel going up, there would be a shortage of oil!?!?!?!?

 

[cutterone]

To me we as a individuals, a nation, and the global community need total reform of how we use and conserve our natural resources. Here in the US we really screwed up letting our rail transit system deminish. Trains are much more efficient in transporting freight that all the semis we have crowding and using up our highways.
Air, bus, and even rail traffic for humans are rediculus on how we have flights, ect that are based on schedules without consideration of occupancy. There is no way any flight with only a few passengers should take off. We are spoiled!
Is there any common sence that almost every kid that goes to school has to drive a car? If we need them there for all the non educational activities then maybe school should be 8-5 just like mom & dad's working hours, put their litle butts on buses that we pay for, and keep them from running around getting into trouble.
It amazes me that every tom, dick & harry tells us that as ag producers we must adjust to the changing times but the rest of the society should keep on doing what they do with no concern & conservation. We are suppost to protect the land, the water, and the enviornment but it's OK for them to gobble up all the resources!