give the Praire back to the Buffalo

[memanpa]

Why is it anyone's business who people donate their land to???

imagine this if you can!!!
you own a nice little house on a small lot, your neigbor has a big lot and sells or donates it to a developer who decides to put a dog shelter on it. all night all day the barking dogs and the stink is with you! thier fences are not very good so the dogs kill your trees and grass by urinating on them, little fluffy is a toy for them to rip up, your children can no longer play outside but because they are considered shelter there is little that you can do! that is why it is YOUR business who people sell or donate land to.

 

[kolanuraven]

Now...now..MM& P that' a pretty EXTREME example and you know it.


BUT..let me ask you this. Would want , oh let's say ME move in next to you and tell YOU what do do with your property? Like maybe tear down that barn cause it's blocking my ' view' OR get rid of those trucks and trailers parked out and build a barn to park them in cause I'm tired of looking at them?

I state those 2 things as they HAVE happened here. One old man had to tear down his barn, a good still in use barn, cause some ' move in" people said it blocked their view. A view OF WHAT we're all still wondering today, but he had tear it down.

Something like this will go BOTH WAYS. If ' someone' can tell another whom to sell to or not to sell to....then others will have that same right to tell you what YOU can do and not do on the prop you already own. In some areas they already do.....it's a slippery slope.

 

[memanpa]

yes i admit it was an extreme example. but only that an example of what COULD happen!

how many farms, ranches and dairys are being shut down by the examples you are giving ?
people moving in complaining about the smell, the flys, the cattle bawling, the dust, etc etc?
your examples are no worse than mine!

the threat is there, it can happen to any of us, and those who ask who's business is it anyway need to be told in the way that best describes the worse possible scenero, !! do you think for one second that the proponants of these ideas are sugar coating what they are telling people??
no i do not think so.
they evenbeen known to lie to further their cause!

 

[PPRM]

When looking at this from a detatched and very general view one could say "Hey, the guy is right.. If people choose to convert their land into buffalo playgrounds with prairie dog cities and no real production what is the real problem.. Whether it is short grass or Tall grass prairie or even turning this area back into the wetlands and Bluestem "paradise" it once was... But look further and you can see what the end result of this is.. The death of rural america. As people remove produciton from the land you are removing families that fuel the local business and school districts. Towns around here are dying a slow, painful death as farms have moved from 160 acre multi crop, old McDonald farms to 4000 acre fully mechanized enterprises robbing the towns of the people who used to shop local, supportting taverns, grocery stores and hardware stores... I could only imagine that it would be much more severe if this was to happen out west... At least our large place still employ some people, I highly doubt the Buffalo commons would..

Where this mind set is really going to be dangerous is areas with huge tracts of Federal land.... They will be pushed for being turned into Wilderness areas and monuments and all of that stuff... Nightmare...

Another subject, but..I believe the death of rural America was the CRP program.....Took sustainable businesses that payed something a family could live on out.....Then with the familis gone, so went some of our schools.......Well, that and the spotted owl where I live......

Both were touted to be environementally freindly programs like this Buffalo deal, but rural america lost a lot,

PPRM

 

[IL Rancher]

WE have a bit of CRP ground around here and the folks get better money from it than they did from crops but it sure is hit or miss. The CRP ground nearer to Chicago gets huge payments while the stuff out here gets a bit less and the stuf fin SOuthern Illinois gets even less. All of the land is about the same as far as fragility and the like but it is what it is...

We have about 800 acres within 4 miles of where I sit now that are gone... Forever. one is Soil Conservation district land that was overfarmed at one point but enede up being donated to the district to help the old owners pay some inheritance tax. The farm we are on bought another part of the land and a third party bought the rest. The other one was land that IDNR bought out as haibbit for some rare Sand Tortise or something...Not the best land in the world to begin with but it will never have cattle again. Ever...

 

[AX-]

Unfortunately, I think there is a large amount of people that would agree with the joker that replied to the letter. A huge chunk of the population is so removed from rural roots that the common sense that goes with it is gone. Go north of Oshkosh Nebraska sometime. Teddy Turner bought up ranch after ranch and there went the local community buildings, schools and nice ranch after nice ranch is now abandoned.

As for the CRP. It is not all bad. It has allowed some beginning farmer / ranchers like ME to purchase some land, actually have a shot to make his payments during five years of drought, build equity and be able to leverage that land to get additional farm ground or pasture. A fair amount of people did use it as a retirement program, but in our local area it is not the biggest problem. Profitability of the remaining farm ground is what has driven people from the area and the continued consolidation to mega farms. CRP has been good for this area.

 

[CattleArmy]

Cattle army.... if I owned 2500 acres and nestled into it was your 1500, and I donate my land to the " Vegan head up my butt praire reserve & city slicker getaway" project. here is what would happen.

my praire dogs do not understand fences. they start rippin up your pasture. you lose production.
next my deer, elk, and pronghorn start popping your fences. your cattle get out, cause you more work and grief.
My buffalo give your herd brucellossis.....and after all this you can not do anything because they really are not my animals, they belong to the idea of restoration....I have more rights due to the historical aspect of it all.

PLUS all my pot smoking hippie friends are visiting this grand zoo I have built, and the traffic the noise, the weird people, and the second hand smoke gets you high, this will all p*** you off.

so what are your options??? really none , eventually we try to buy you out to ease your pain, but you want too much money, so our liberal lawyers take you to court, condem your land and take it is the intrest of public good.

now we nearly doubled in size, and we border Soapweed. he is our next target!

That is a very good way of describing the problem, jigs. Landowners considering selling out should "just say no" to Ted Turner, even if his offer is more money than a bona-fide rancher would pay. Let proper principles prevail.

That is an ideal thought especially for young people trying to get into the business. However who's really gonna take less money to let someone in??? As we both know look around the Sandhills who's buying it up???

Look at the people in the area selling out to Turner. Some had offers from neighbors and still went with the all mighty dollar. After all they all want that fancy home in town it seems.

 

[CattleArmy]

Unfortunately, I think there is a large amount of people that would agree with the joker that replied to the letter. A huge chunk of the population is so removed from rural roots that the common sense that goes with it is gone. Go north of Oshkosh Nebraska sometime. Teddy Turner bought up ranch after ranch and there went the local community buildings, schools and nice ranch after nice ranch is now abandoned.

As for the CRP. It is not all bad. It has allowed some beginning farmer / ranchers like ME to purchase some land, actually have a shot to make his payments during five years of drought, build equity and be able to leverage that land to get additional farm ground or pasture. A fair amount of people did use it as a retirement program, but in our local area it is not the biggest problem. Profitability of the remaining farm ground is what has driven people from the area and the continued consolidation to mega farms. CRP has been good for this area.

Keep going north to Gordon Nebraska Ted has bought up huge tracts of land there too.

 

[jigs]

However who's really gonna take less money to let someone in???

my grandpa lost everything in the early 80's. I was in JR high. so I began working for a neighbor. well eventually I worked into where I was part of the operation and we became more partnerish than employer / employee

he holds most of the land and is farm driven, I had different views and was cattle driven. so we work well together. now, my wife and I wanted to get going on our own, but land is high as a kite.

the home we were living in burned to the ground and we rented for two years deciding what to do next. that is where a man of 83 years stepped in. he asked what we were gonna do. I told him we were weighing our options. he said just buy my place.

many guys around here wanted to buy it and doze it in and put up a pivot. I could not compete with thier money and told him so.
he told me what he wanted, and said go home and figure out how you can afford it.

we sat down, came up with a plan. 40 year contract, payment is same amout as I can rent it out for, just incase I need to do it that way. he said fine, but I forgot the interest rate. I figured 8 % or so.....he pops off with 4% !!!!

all said and done, I got this place bought at about 75% of what others had offered him...... so yes, there are guys who will take less money to get a kid going on his own!!!

and I have been poor and broke ever since, but as happy as can be to OWN MY OWN LAND!

in time, if my boys leave the farm, I intend to help out a young couple the same way I was helped.

 

[Red Robin]

I don't guess I have anything against Ted for buying what ever he wants. That's the American way. I don't have anything against the land owners selling to him, that's also legal and moral but knowing Ted Turners motives , I wouldn't sell to him at any price. I personally think it should be illegal for Ted to give that large of a land holding to someone or something that isn't a citizen of the U.S. or at the very least the U.S. govt. What I fear is that old stupid teddy will give the land to the U.N. or some such entity. I think that should be illegal.

I am much more shocked by the fact that not many people here seem to care that our impressionable next generation is being quietly fed this liberal view of our lifestyle and the crazy view this vegan spouted in his email to Jiggs. What will the next generation do with the land they inherit or more importantly , what kind of people can they be???? I certainly believe it will have an effect on them and not a positive one either.