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Globalization

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rkaiser

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:shock:It always amazes me when lights get turned on for people at the time and the place when they want them to. The light switch you are playing with reader(the second), is far out of reach of any Rcalf member, and don't think for a moment that you will be able to help them turn it on.

I don't know if it is the best thing either, especially because Globalisation is always led by the largest and usually most uncaring companies of the world; but yes it is part of reality, and holding it back will be impossible, other than for short priods of time.
 

cedardell

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Globalization has been heavy on the minds of every wage earner in this country as some have lost jobs, some have had to switch jobs, and some businesses just can't compete. This is a fact of life and reader the second expressed feelings of about everyone in the US. The previous responder is wrong. R-calf was formed from inception to fight for US producers in the global climate. Win or loose I take my hat off to them for that. I hear Congress voted to put a 30% tariff on all goods imported from China. Maybe R-calf inspired them to pull their heads out of the sand.
 

Sandhusker

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rkaiser said:
:shock:It always amazes me when lights get turned on for people at the time and the place when they want them to. The light switch you are playing with reader(the second), is far out of reach of any Rcalf member, and don't think for a moment that you will be able to help them turn it on.

I don't know if it is the best thing either, especially because Globalisation is always led by the largest and usually most uncaring companies of the world; but yes it is part of reality, and holding it back will be impossible, other than for short priods of time.

I disagree wholeheartedly concerning your comment about R-CALF members. Globalization and the effect it will have on the livelihoods of my area directly and myself indirectly is the primary reason I joined R-CALF. They seem to me to be the only cattleman's organization that recognizes that we are heading to increased globalization, that some if it is detrimental to us, and that we need to speak up when the decisions are being made lest those decisions get made in our stead by those who's chief interests are not ours.
 

rkaiser

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:roll: Well Mr. Sandhusker, how the hell are the actions of Rcalf helping to stem the tide of Globalisation? The only people that have been hurt by this border attack are the ranchers of Canada. Are you proud of that? Are you proud that your group has halted trade and distroyed the liveliehood of hundreds of ranchers just like you? Do you think that it has hurt the mutinational packers? Do you think this border dispute will stop Cargil and Tyson from moving into even cheaper beef producing nation while your government continues to sign free trade agreements.

Stand proud you bunch of chickenshit protectionists, your day will come. It may be a bit behind the Canadian boys that you kicked while they were down, but your day will come. I can see it now. When the border does open, and prices drop a penny or more, you guys will say "we told you so" .
Wake up!
Globalization of the beef industry will settle the price wherever it is whenever it pleases. Your victory over Canadian ranchers may be sweet for the moment, but it honestly gained you nothing. Nothing, except for maybe a few less bull customers once the border opens, and a few more flat tires if you come up to Canada with your Rcult stickers on your pickups. No I don't support flat tires, but how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot. If this forum was in a rural coffee shop in Western Canada, don't you think a bit of ass kickin would have broke out by now. And don't tell me about the choices we have to cut production or sell elsewhere. Our lives are as small as yours. We have ranchers and cattle that we love, and simply want to survive like you do.
We have tried, but can do very little to change the inevitible. Your short term solution that you feel you have found is sickening.

Go ahead Rcalf, spin it around, make some excuses. You are a bunch of pathetic hypocrites, hiding behind a slow moving, corrupt legal system with money driving it's, and your, every move.
 

Sandhusker

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rkaiser said:
:roll: Well Mr. Sandhusker, how the hell are the actions of Rcalf helping to stem the tide of Globalisation? The only people that have been hurt by this border attack are the ranchers of Canada. Are you proud of that? Are you proud that your group has halted trade and distroyed the liveliehood of hundreds of ranchers just like you? Do you think that it has hurt the mutinational packers? Do you think this border dispute will stop Cargil and Tyson from moving into even cheaper beef producing nation while your government continues to sign free trade agreements.

Stand proud you bunch of chickenshit protectionists, your day will come. It may be a bit behind the Canadian boys that you kicked while they were down, but your day will come. I can see it now. When the border does open, and prices drop a penny or more, you guys will say "we told you so" .
Wake up!
Globalization of the beef industry will settle the price wherever it is whenever it pleases. Your victory over Canadian ranchers may be sweet for the moment, but it honestly gained you nothing. Nothing, except for maybe a few less bull customers once the border opens, and a few more flat tires if you come up to Canada with your Rcult stickers on your pickups. No I don't support flat tires, but how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot. If this forum was in a rural coffee shop in Western Canada, don't you think a bit of ass kickin would have broke out by now. And don't tell me about the choices we have to cut production or sell elsewhere. Our lives are as small as yours. We have ranchers and cattle that we love, and simply want to survive like you do.
We have tried, but can do very little to change the inevitible. Your short term solution that you feel you have found is sickening.

Go ahead Rcalf, spin it around, make some excuses. You are a bunch of pathetic hypocrites, hiding behind a slow moving, corrupt legal system with money driving it's, and your, every move.

I should wait a few hours to cool down after reading your post, but that would just make me stew. Randy, you don't get it. You just don't get it. I don't know why I try to explain it again and again because some folks just don't want to get it. But, if you folks need a witch to burn to make you feel better about your problems, so be it. You're never going to better your plight until you figure out where your problems are actually created, and these verbal barrages directed at me are causing me to lose any pity for you I had.

R-CALF's actions are NOT about Canada. Do I need to say that again? Need I type slower? This whole border deal is about the USDA compromising a wise health policy for the sake of the AMI's checkbook. The USDA is selling out and R-CALF is calling them on it. Figure it out.

R-CALF didn't close the border nor do they keep is closed. They don't have the power. Figure it out. If the USDA had a stronger case, they would of won and the border would be open. Figure it out. And please don't give me the Junior High excuse that "The Judge was bought off". Jeeeeeeze. Here's some more information for you - R-CALF did NOT set the prices for your cattle. They did NOT take a multi-million dollar handout from your government and then use it against you (and get in contempt of parliament) Figure it out.

You want to talk corruption? How about your government that can't enforce their own contempt of parliament charge? How about your government that dances to the tune of the USDA and AMI? Are you going to tell me that is not the case? Maybe corruption is not the proper word, maybe cowardace is.

You know, Randy, I am proud. I'm proud that R-CALF has the gumption to stand up to the AMI and show them the US cattleman is a force that needs to be answered to. I'm proud that R-CALF will even take on the mighty USDA when they're out of line - and prove them out of line. Maybe some of you Canadians can learn something and quit blaming R-CALF for your problems. Maybe you can learn that you can take measures to better your situation, once the problem is analyzed. Figure it out.

I'll make it simple for you. R-CALF is not the cause of your problems. The cause of your problems is a combination of a yellow government and a crappy national business plan. Blaming R-CALF for the situation created by Canadians is the chickenshit way. Figure it out, Randy.

I'm sorry if I got nasty, but enough is enough.
 

rkaiser

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:roll: Enough is enough all right. Figure it out yourself.

Stand behind the science one moment and behind the price of your cull cows the next.

As you say Rcalf is not our problem, I will keep telling you, my friend, the Canadian Rancher is not your problem.

Rcalf has focused their energy on a closed Canadian border for self serving financial reasons. You talk this way all the time. UNTIL someone like myself stands up for the Canadian rancher and points out that he\she is not the enemy. Then you switch to science. Over and over again this site moves in these two directions.

Why do you want to burn the Canadian rancher at the stake? Rcalf and their Judge are keeping the border closed at the moment. You will brag about this as soon as I leave.

You may be being made out to be the scapegoat Sandhusker, but I sure don't see you backing down on the whole border issue either.

You want to talk about Junior High School. Tell me more about your safety for America approach. What a GD joke.

Sure we all need Grassroots support for the producers of our countries, but your own mutinationals are simply enjoying this froma mainly spectator view. Loose a bit in the States gain it back in Canada. And watch a few more small time competitors drop in the mean time. Are you gaining ground with your closed Canadian border approach. I say very, very short term.

Come on Sandhusker, get mad. You got nothing yet that makes a bit of sense to me. And guess what bud, I am every bit as knowledgeable about this industry as you. Open your eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Sandhusker

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Randy, "As you say Rcalf is not our problem, I will keep telling you, my friend, the Canadian Rancher is not your problem. "

I agree, Randy, I agree wholeheartedly! How many times to I have to say R-CALF's stance on the border is NOT about you guys! It's about the USDA selling out to the packers now and in the future! Catch their talk on RFD and listen to what they are complaining about. It is NOT the Canadian rancher, it's the USDA and AMI!

Randy, "Rcalf has focused their energy on a closed Canadian border for self serving financial reasons."

R-CALF has focused their energy on a closed Canadian border because this battle will have far reaching implications for trade policy in the future. Both R-CALF and their opponents have stated exactly that. The USDA fell all over themselves trying to open the border solely for the benefit of the AMI's checkbooks. THAT is what the problem is. If R-CALF can't stop the sell-out on the Canadian border, the stage will be set for more of the same, and the AMI's vision of the future of the beef and cattle industries is not the best one for US ranchers (or Canadian ranchers, either).

Randy, "Why do you want to burn the Canadian rancher at the stake? Rcalf and their Judge are keeping the border closed at the moment. "

We DON'T want to burn the Canadian rancher at the stake. We just don't want the AMI via the USDA to burn US at the stake. The Judge is not "R-CALF's". This isn't the movies or prohibition Chicago.

Randy, "You may be being made out to be the scapegoat Sandhusker, but I sure don't see you backing down on the whole border issue either. "

I won't back down until the USDA does their job and goes to open the border by following established protocol.

Randy, "Sure we all need Grassroots support for the producers of our countries, but your own mutinationals are simply enjoying this froma mainly spectator view. Loose a bit in the States gain it back in Canada. And watch a few more small time competitors drop in the mean time."

I'll agree with you again - our multinationals are enjoying SOME of this - they have to be loving the part where they get to raid the Canadian treasury, use those funds to rape the Canadian cattleman, and then watch you guys blame R-CALF. They're laughing all the way to the bank. Those funds will come in handy when they go to take over those new packing plants that you're building. They know how do do that. When it all boils down, we both have the same problem - the US multinationals calling the shots and both of our governments letting them.

Randy, "Are you gaining ground with your closed Canadian border approach. I say very, very short term."

This isn't about the short term.

Randy, "Come on Sandhusker, get mad. You got nothing yet that makes a bit of sense to me. And guess what bud, I am every bit as knowledgeable about this industry as you. Open your eyes!!"

I've read a lot of your posts, checked out your website, and have no doubts about your knowledge. The image I have of you is one of a pretty sharp operator. I just think you, and a lot of other Canadians, can't see what R-CALF is really trying to do because the luck of the draw as made you folks collateral damage in their fight with the USDA/AMI.
 
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Sandhusker said:
Randy, "As you say Rcalf is not our problem, I will keep telling you, my friend, the Canadian Rancher is not your problem. "

I agree, Randy, I agree wholeheartedly! How many times to I have to say R-CALF's stance on the border is NOT about you guys! It's about the USDA selling out to the packers now and in the future! Catch their talk on RFD and listen to what they are complaining about. It is NOT the Canadian rancher, it's the USDA and AMI!

Randy, "Rcalf has focused their energy on a closed Canadian border for self serving financial reasons."

R-CALF has focused their energy on a closed Canadian border because this battle will have far reaching implications for trade policy in the future. Both R-CALF and their opponents have stated exactly that. The USDA fell all over themselves trying to open the border solely for the benefit of the AMI's checkbooks. THAT is what the problem is. If R-CALF can't stop the sell-out on the Canadian border, the stage will be set for more of the same, and the AMI's vision of the future of the beef and cattle industries is not the best one for US ranchers (or Canadian ranchers, either).

Randy, "Why do you want to burn the Canadian rancher at the stake? Rcalf and their Judge are keeping the border closed at the moment. "

We DON'T want to burn the Canadian rancher at the stake. We just don't want the AMI via the USDA to burn US at the stake. The Judge is not "R-CALF's". This isn't the movies or prohibition Chicago.

Randy, "You may be being made out to be the scapegoat Sandhusker, but I sure don't see you backing down on the whole border issue either. "

I won't back down until the USDA does their job and goes to open the border by following established protocol.

Randy, "Sure we all need Grassroots support for the producers of our countries, but your own mutinationals are simply enjoying this froma mainly spectator view. Loose a bit in the States gain it back in Canada. And watch a few more small time competitors drop in the mean time."

I'll agree with you again - our multinationals are enjoying SOME of this - they have to be loving the part where they get to raid the Canadian treasury, use those funds to rape the Canadian cattleman, and then watch you guys blame R-CALF. They're laughing all the way to the bank. Those funds will come in handy when they go to take over those new packing plants that you're building. They know how do do that. When it all boils down, we both have the same problem - the US multinationals calling the shots and both of our governments letting them.

Randy, "Are you gaining ground with your closed Canadian border approach. I say very, very short term."

This isn't about the short term.

Randy, "Come on Sandhusker, get mad. You got nothing yet that makes a bit of sense to me. And guess what bud, I am every bit as knowledgeable about this industry as you. Open your eyes!!"

I've read a lot of your posts, checked out your website, and have no doubts about your knowledge. The image I have of you is one of a pretty sharp operator. I just think you, and a lot of other Canadians, can't see what R-CALF is really trying to do because the luck of the draw as made you folks collateral damage in their fight with the USDA/AMI.

Sandhusker- I agree 99% with your post- the only thing I would add is that R-CALF believes that Country of Origin is important for the cattleman especially as the continued free trade agreements are being signed.... I personally think this will come to be very important for the Canadian cattleman too- especially as the South American beef starts funneling north....

Randy's and Cam's BIG C group is as close to being a Canadian R-CALF as there could be-altho they will not admit it--- but both have recognized where the long term problems exist.....
 

rkaiser

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:) I'll admit that our group is Grassroots born, and has ideas rather than blame on our agenda. But the buck stops there. We are not out to destroy the livelihood of our American producer cousins. Our goals are supportive of producers all over this continent and all over the world for that matter. Cannon fodder is not an accident. It is a result of an action.

Just go back from checking on pasture growth and had some thoughts about your comments concerning the witch hunt thing Sandhusker.
You feel that Canadian ranchers are calling Rcalf the witch and burning them at the stake. What a joke. How can we be doing any burning of our own when our skin is charcoal. Sure our governements built the wood pile, and while we are standing with our hands bound the multinationals are raping our women. But who lights the match, every time we feel we may be saved. Rcalf, that's who. Yes your Judge, yes your flip flopping policy. Back off if you feel it's about the packers for Christ sakes. They aren't hurting. It's not taking them down at all. All BS I say. You guys see a calf price or a cull cow price that seems to be because of the border being closed, and that is all you see.

Take Rcalf in the direction that it could do some good. Build or buy Slaughter capacity and take on the multinationals. Or stand back and blame, and keep using every immoral tactic you can to cannon fodder the Canadian Producer.
 

rkaiser

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:) Oh that's you Jared. I try not to get into things with you much. You are so much smarter than anyone else on this site that I'm intimidated and instantly want to stick my finger up my a$$ in submission.
 
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Taint said:
rkaiser said:
:? Hi Taint - yer one a them brite ones ain't ya?

Yeah, damn sure bright enough not to raise Galloway cattle. :lol: :lol:

Taint- I got to disagree and stick up for a Canadian on this one-- If I had an outlet for the calves, I might be raising some of those hairy beasts.... I really think they are some of the better "real" moderate framed british cattle that can do well in this north country... All I've seen and read about them indicates they can do everything the angus can--- maybe are more docile, and are about 20-25% more energy efficient in the cold weather...Except for the fact of all the hair and none of the feeders want the hair and mud clumps that goes with them.......
 

rkaiser

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:wink: Just got three CP hotels last week Taint. But a worldly fellow like yourself wouldn't have a clue as to what that might mean. Iron chefs with an eye and a taste for some of the best beef raised in North America.

Don't think they buy any emu, but I can ask if they would take goats for you if you like. Maybe you can play them a half assed song on your Banjo if you can find another string.

Might be a sicko but at least I think for myself.
 

rkaiser

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:wink: I guess you go for those good old mainstream breeds that Cargil and Tyson like hey Taint? Typical Rcalf hypocricy.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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you go Randy!!! AS far as your cattle go I think there some of the best in north america. AS far as Taint goes he only likes his sheep to be hairy!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Sandhusker

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Randy, "Or stand back and blame, and keep using every immoral tactic you can to cannon fodder the Canadian Producer."

All we're trying to do is get the USDA to quit bowing to the packers and do their job. If your government had the balls to buck the packers and the USDA, your arse wouldn't be quite so charred. A little singed, but the hair would be growing back by now. :wink:
 

rkaiser

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And all I'm talking about is the FACT that Rcalf is using every tactic at their disposal to keep the border closed. I agree with your thoughts on our spineless government and out spineless industry groups as well, but even if they had the guts to stand up, the Judge in Montana has the power at the moment.

Take on Cargil and Tyson where you might have a chance of hurting them. You are not hurting them with a closed border, only the Canadian producer.
 

mrj

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Interesting posts on this thread. Obviously many of you believe that globalization is well underway and not going to be turned around anytime soon.

Most interesting is the pointed differences in reacting to that fact between NCBA and R-Calf: NCBA members educate themselves and work to do what may be achievable to maintain a level playing field in international trade for US cattle producers. NCBA members recognize that there will be opportunities for cattlemen who are paying attention to business. R-CALF insists on trying to turn back the clock and close our borders to trade, insulating producers from potential profits from trading with the 94% of the world population outside US borders and whose citizens are growing their disposable incomes, some quite rapidly.

Tragically, while supposedly fighting against the large packing companies they like to portray as evil, R-CALF is hurting the very same smaller, widely dispersed packing plants, mostly in the north and northwest part of our nation that they claim would better serve our cattle business. Because those smaller plants traditionally slaughtered some Canadian cattle which, combined with local USA produced cattle, enabled them to have enough numbers to make their businesses viable, continued closure has put some out of business and badly crippled others. The Canadians have had to build new plants in their country due to the border closure. Cattlemen in both those countries will be harmed by the shortsighted actions of R-CALF.

The only thing I can agree with some of the anti-Canada posting is when they say some of the Canadians sound an awful lot like the R-CALF faithful in this country. I also can see how they came to feel that way due to the hatred focused at them by some US R-CALF supporting cattle producers on this website. What an embarrassment they have become to rational cattle producers who understand that normal trade with Canada needs to be established asap for the long term health of the cattle business in BOTH countries, IMO.

MRJ
 

rkaiser

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8) Fair enough post MRJ except that you forgot to mention that the so called Canadian packing industry expansion is 90% American mutinational. Closed border has been very favourable to mutinationals ganing even more control. Ironic isn't it?
 

Sandhusker

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MRJ, "Most interesting is the pointed differences in reacting to that fact between NCBA and R-Calf: NCBA members educate themselves and work to do what may be achievable to maintain a level playing field in international trade for US cattle producers. NCBA members recognize that there will be opportunities for cattlemen who are paying attention to business."

That all sounds great, MRJ, but reality doesn't show that. I try not to bash the NCBA as I have good friends and customers as members and I don't think you can raise yourself up by putting others down. However, what exactly has the NCBA done do keep "a level playing field in international trade"?

R-CALF members also know there will be opportunities. They also know our opportunities are hamstrung when we only seem to establish open trade agreements with beef exporting nations. R-CALF has also brought up the fact that there is a huge imbalance on tariffs between us and the rest of the world. Has NCBA addressed those problems?

MRJ, "R-CALF insists on trying to turn back the clock and close our borders to trade, insulating producers from potential profits from trading with the 94% of the world population outside US borders and whose citizens are growing their disposable incomes, some quite rapidly."

You are wrong, MRJ. It upsets me when people who are generally R-CALF bashes talk about R-CALF's views on trade and what not, and are totally wrong. I would be happy to fax you articles from their magazine so you can understand what they are trying to do straight from horse's mouth.

MRJ, "Tragically, while supposedly fighting against the large packing companies they like to portray as evil,...."

You are wrong again, MRJ. R-CALF has not portayed large packers as evil. Once again, you need to get you information on their views from them and not an alternate source. I'd be happy to send you an article by Bullard that addresses big packers directly. He does NOT say they are evil. His stand is that they are simply companies pursuing legitimate business plans using their means to achieve their goals. Not evil - LEGITIMATE. The problem is that thier vision puts US cattlemen in a bad spot, and the US cattleman had better speak up for themselves and exert some like pressure to achieve OUR goals, or we won't be happy.
 

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