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Government Skewers Its Own Investments In Electric Cars

Soapweed

Well-known member
http://autos.aol.com/article/government-skewers-its-own-investments-in-electric-cars/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cnetscape%7Cdl8%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D210709
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tesla unveils faster electric car charging station

September 25, 2012 RSS Feed Print
HAWTHORNE, Calif. (AP) — Tesla Motors Inc. unveiled a solar-powered charging station on Monday that it said will make refueling electric vehicles on long trips about as fast as stopping for gas and a bathroom break in a conventional car.

CEO Elon Musk said at a news conference at the company's design studio that the company's roadside Supercharger has been installed at six highway rest stops in California.

The innovation is "the answer to the three major problems that are holding back electrical vehicles, or at least people think are holding back electrical vehicles," Musk said before a curtain was lifted from a giant model of one of the devices. "One is this question of being able to drive long distances conveniently."

The free stations are designed to fully charge Tesla's new Model S sedan in about an hour, and a half-hour-long charge can produce enough energy for a 150-mile trip, he said.

The first six, which were developed and deployed in secret, are in Barstow, Hawthorne, Lebec, Coalinga, Gilroy and Folsom. Tesla spokeswoman Christina Ra said they are open only to company employees, but would be available to the public in early October.

Musk said his Palo Alto-based company planned to have more stations running throughout California and in parts of Nevada and Oregon by the end of the year, and expected to blanket "almost the entire United States" within two years.

Tesla unveiled the Model S, its first mass-market vehicle, in June. The base model costs sells for $49,900 after a federal tax credit.

Along with persuading consumers that electric vehicles are practical, the charging stations were developed with an eye toward alleviating doubts about their environmental effects. Musk said the solar-powered stations in California would produce more clean energy than is needed to keep cars running.


Speaking of electric cars...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Tesla better hurry. In June of 2012, they had only shipped 29 cars and those are VERY expensive. Around $50,000.00 AFTER the Tax Credits.

After all, they only got around $465 Million from Uncle Sam.....................

It'll take a long time to recoup that by making 60 cars per year. :roll:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
that it said will make refueling electric vehicles on long trips about as fast as stopping for gas and a bathroom break in a conventional car.


snip

The free stations are designed to fully charge Tesla's new Model S sedan in about an hour, and a half-hour-long charge can produce enough energy for a 150-mile trip[/b], he said.

.


Speaking of electric cars...

Does anybody you know Oldtimer take 1 1/2 hours to fill a gas tank, or take a bathroom break?

As that is what your article claims is the length of time to recharge the car

Then you have the FREE STATION, Now charging a battery that fast is going to take some pretty serious POWER and the article claims the car owners can recharge for FREE. Does that make any sense to you? They giving an expensive commodity FOR FREE.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
that it said will make refueling electric vehicles on long trips about as fast as stopping for gas and a bathroom break in a conventional car.


snip

The free stations are designed to fully charge Tesla's new Model S sedan in about an hour, and a half-hour-long charge can produce enough energy for a 150-mile trip[/b], he said.

.


Speaking of electric cars...

Does anybody you know Oldtimer take 1 1/2 hours to fill a gas tank, or take a bathroom break?

As that is what your article claims is the length of time to recharge the car

Then you have the FREE STATION, Now charging a battery that fast is going to take some pretty serious POWER and the article claims the car owners can recharge for FREE. Does that make any sense to you? They giving an expensive commodity FOR FREE.

Tam- you need some reading comprehension class's again..

fully charge Tesla's new Model S sedan in about an hour, (comma)

and a half-hour-long charge can produce enough energy for a 150-mile trip,

To me that says a full charge takes an hour----- and a 150 mile trip recharge takes a 1/2 an hour...

The reason they can provide recharges free is that they create their own power from solar- and can sell electricity back to the untility...

Along with persuading consumers that electric vehicles are practical, the charging stations were developed with an eye toward alleviating doubts about their environmental effects. Musk said the solar-powered stations in California would produce more clean energy than is needed to keep cars running.

At that price (FREE)- I'll bet even you could sit on the potty for a few more minutes... :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Self-driving cars now legal in California

By Heather Kelly, CNN
updated 11:00 AM EDT, Wed September 26, 2012 | Filed under: Innovations


(CNN) -- California is the latest state to allow testing of Google's self-driving cars on the roads, though only with a human passenger along as a safety measure.

Gov. Edmund "Jerry" Brown signed the autonomous-vehicles bill into law Tuesday afternoon alongside Google co-founder Sergey Brin and State Sen. Alex Padilla, who authored the bill, at Google's headquarters in Mountain View, California. The bill, SB 1298, will set up procedures and requirements for determining when the cars are road-ready.

Brin hopes that self-driving cars will be able to drive on public streets in five years or less.

You won't need a driver's license by 2040

"Anybody who first gets in the car and finds the car is driving will be a little skittish. But they'll get over it." said Brown when asked if the California Highway Patrol was on board with the plan.



CNN test-drives 'self-driving car'

The cars use a combination of technologies, including radar sensors on the front, video cameras aimed at the surrounding area, various other sensors and artificial-intelligence software that helps steer. Google is the most visible company working on these types of vehicles, but similar projects are under way at other organizations, including Caltech.

Google has already been testing the cars on the road in Nevada, which passed a law last year authorizing driverless vehicles. Both Nevada and California require the cars to have a human behind the wheel who can take control of the vehicle at any time.

So far, the cars have have racked up more than 300,000 driving miles, and 50,000 of those miles were without any intervention from the human drivers, Google says.


There have been no accidents while the cars were controlled by the computer. The only documented accident with one of the Google vehicles was a fender bender that took place while a human was in control.

Brin, who sported a pair of Google glasses at the media event without comment, said the cars could address a variety of current transportation issues. First and foremost, he said, the self-driving cars would be safer than human-driven cars. There were just under 33,000 deaths from motor vehicle accidents in the United States in 2010.

They also could ferry around people who are usually unable to to drive, such as blind people.

"Some people have other disabilities, some people are too young, some people are too old, sometimes we're too intoxicated," said Brin.

Ideally, a car that drives itself can minimize traffic by chaining together with other self-driving vehicles and using highways more efficiently. Drivers wouldn't be limited to listening to NPR and honking during their morning commute; instead they could use that time to be productive, like the millions of people who take public transit currently do.


Brin also discussed the many parking lots in urban and suburban areas, calling them "a scar to the surface of the Earth." Self-driving cars would be able to drop you off at work and then pick up another person instead of idling in a parking lot. If you did opt to own your own car, it could park itself in the most efficient way possible.

Consumer Watchdog, a consumer-rights group, has expressed reservations about the cars on privacy grounds, saying they would allow Google to gather personal information about passengers.

Google's fleet of vehicles started with Toyota Prius Hybrids and later added the Lexus RX450h, a crossover SUV, to test on different terrain. The project is directed by Sebastian Thrun, who also co-founded Google Street View.

There are many legal and technical problems still to be worked out before the cars are commonplace. Asked who would get the ticket when a driverless car runs a red light, Brin replied, "Self-driving cars do not run red lights."


When I think of all the technological advancements and scientific progress that has taken place in my lifetime-- it makes me wonder what we will be able to do in 20- 50 years from now...
Many of which as a kid I thought of as science fiction- today we are doing...Probably the best examples is in computers and communications (cell phones)... Who'd have thought we'd have Capt Kirk/Dick Tracey type communicators...
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Self-driving cars now legal in California

By Heather Kelly, CNN
updated 11:00 AM EDT, Wed September 26, 2012 | Filed under: Innovations


(CNN) -- California is the latest state to allow testing of Google's self-driving cars on the roads, though only with a human passenger along as a safety measure.

Gov. Edmund "Jerry" Brown signed the autonomous-vehicles bill into law Tuesday afternoon alongside Google co-founder Sergey Brin and State Sen. Alex Padilla, who authored the bill, at Google's headquarters in Mountain View, California. The bill, SB 1298, will set up procedures and requirements for determining when the cars are road-ready.

Brin hopes that self-driving cars will be able to drive on public streets in five years or less.

You won't need a driver's license by 2040

"Anybody who first gets in the car and finds the car is driving will be a little skittish. But they'll get over it." said Brown when asked if the California Highway Patrol was on board with the plan.



CNN test-drives 'self-driving car'

The cars use a combination of technologies, including radar sensors on the front, video cameras aimed at the surrounding area, various other sensors and artificial-intelligence software that helps steer. Google is the most visible company working on these types of vehicles, but similar projects are under way at other organizations, including Caltech.

Google has already been testing the cars on the road in Nevada, which passed a law last year authorizing driverless vehicles. Both Nevada and California require the cars to have a human behind the wheel who can take control of the vehicle at any time.

So far, the cars have have racked up more than 300,000 driving miles, and 50,000 of those miles were without any intervention from the human drivers, Google says.


There have been no accidents while the cars were controlled by the computer. The only documented accident with one of the Google vehicles was a fender bender that took place while a human was in control.

Brin, who sported a pair of Google glasses at the media event without comment, said the cars could address a variety of current transportation issues. First and foremost, he said, the self-driving cars would be safer than human-driven cars. There were just under 33,000 deaths from motor vehicle accidents in the United States in 2010.

They also could ferry around people who are usually unable to to drive, such as blind people.

"Some people have other disabilities, some people are too young, some people are too old, sometimes we're too intoxicated," said Brin.

Ideally, a car that drives itself can minimize traffic by chaining together with other self-driving vehicles and using highways more efficiently. Drivers wouldn't be limited to listening to NPR and honking during their morning commute; instead they could use that time to be productive, like the millions of people who take public transit currently do.


Brin also discussed the many parking lots in urban and suburban areas, calling them "a scar to the surface of the Earth." Self-driving cars would be able to drop you off at work and then pick up another person instead of idling in a parking lot. If you did opt to own your own car, it could park itself in the most efficient way possible.

Consumer Watchdog, a consumer-rights group, has expressed reservations about the cars on privacy grounds, saying they would allow Google to gather personal information about passengers.

Google's fleet of vehicles started with Toyota Prius Hybrids and later added the Lexus RX450h, a crossover SUV, to test on different terrain. The project is directed by Sebastian Thrun, who also co-founded Google Street View.

There are many legal and technical problems still to be worked out before the cars are commonplace. Asked who would get the ticket when a driverless car runs a red light, Brin replied, "Self-driving cars do not run red lights."


When I think of all the technological advancements and scientific progress that has taken place in my lifetime-- it makes me wonder what we will be able to do in 20- 50 years from now...
Many of which as a kid I thought of as science fiction- today we are doing...Probably the best examples is in computers and communications (cell phones)... Who'd have thought we'd have Capt Kirk/Dick Tracey type communicators...

What technological advances I'd bet you had a horse that took you home when you were to drunk to steer back in the day. :lol: :lol:
 

Steve

Well-known member
At that price (FREE)-

so the station was "free" and didn't cost a penny to design and build..

the panels were "free" as well?

and what about the infrastructure, labor, land, and upkeep?...

what is free today,.. will have to be paid for...

Are you willing to pay more taxes so a rich Californian guy can drive a pricey car for "Free" ?,.. cause that is about what is happening...
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
The reason they can provide recharges free is that they create their own power from solar- and can sell electricity back to the untility...

Along with persuading consumers that electric vehicles are practical, the charging stations were developed with an eye toward alleviating doubts about their environmental effects. Musk said the solar-powered stations in California would produce more clean energy than is needed to keep cars running.

At that price (FREE)- I'll bet even you could sit on the potty for a few more minutes... :wink:

It takes about 5 minutes to fill a tank of gas and I believe the only thing you would be getting for free while sticking around a public bathroom for a half an hour or so is a disease from all the other free loaders looking for something for NOTHING. :wink: :roll:


And solar power can be given away free :? I guess that is why SOLYNDRA and all the other solar companies owned by Obama campaign donors had to have tax payer bailouts to pay back those Obama donors RIGHT BEFORE THEY FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY.

Nothing is free Oldtimer NOTHING. :roll:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Steve said:
At that price (FREE)-

so the station was "free" and didn't cost a penny to design and build..

the panels were "free" as well?

and what about the infrastructure, labor, land, and upkeep?...

what is free today,.. will have to be paid for...

Are you willing to pay more taxes so a rich Californian guy can drive a pricey car for "Free" ?,.. cause that is about what is happening...

I'm guess This will be one of those You Didn't Build that cases. The government will be giving huge grants out to get them built and the company will go bankrupt right before the station are to come on line.

As for the Free Potty Breaks YEA RIGHT. No thanks I'll hold it until I get to a BATHROOM where someone takes responsibility of CLEANING IT. :roll: .
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Steve said:
At that price (FREE)-

so the station was "free" and didn't cost a penny to design and build..

the panels were "free" as well?

and what about the infrastructure, labor, land, and upkeep?...

what is free today,.. will have to be paid for...

Are you willing to pay more taxes so a rich Californian guy can drive a pricey car for "Free" ?,.. cause that is about what is happening...

I'm guess This will be one of those You Didn't Build that cases. The government will be giving huge grants out to get them built and the company will go bankrupt right before the station are to come on line.

As for the Free Potty Breaks YEA RIGHT. No thanks I'll hold it until I get to a BATHROOM where someone takes responsibility of CLEANING IT. :roll: .

Actually in what I read a few days ago-- Tesla- which is up to date on all the repayment timelines for its loans-- had asked the government for a reorganization to allow them to pay off their loan faster....

Yep Tam-- you and old Mitt kind of fit together...Rather spend all kinds of money then have to lower yourself to use or clean a pot...
As a retired person- I'd love to see these free stations around the country while doing a little traveling...But - when someone becomes rich folk- or have found a sugar daddy, I'm sure that is one of the last things they worry about... :roll:
 

Steve

Well-known member
As a retired person- I'd love to see these free stations around the country while doing a little traveling...But - when someone becomes rich folk-

when someone becomes rich folk,... they get a expensive electric car and you help pay for it... and it's fuel ..

Are you willing to pay more taxes so a rich Californian guy can drive a pricey car for "Free" ?,.. cause that is about what is happening...

nothing is free,.. someone has to eventually pay for it..

but if it makes you feel good thinking it is fine for your grandkids to pay for a rich guys fancy car..and "free fuel" then have at it...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
As a retired person- I'd love to see these free stations around the country while doing a little traveling...But - when someone becomes rich folk-

when someone becomes rich folk,... they get a expensive electric car and you help pay for it... and it's fuel ..

Are you willing to pay more taxes so a rich Californian guy can drive a pricey car for "Free" ?,.. cause that is about what is happening...

nothing is free,.. someone has to eventually pay for it..

but if it makes you feel good thinking it is fine for your grandkids to pay for a rich guys fancy car..and "free fuel" then have at it...

Didn't the government end the tax rebates on electric cars? And my understanding is that these solar powered chargers are paid for thru the extra electrical power they sell back to the grid....So- besides the initial government loans the company got for setup (which they are repaying in record time) what government money is involved?....

Yep- right now electric vehicles are quite pricey and still much in the developmental stage-- but I remember a time when cell phones were huge bulky units that besides being very unreliable were very expensive...Thirty years ago our Sheriffs office could only afford 2- one for the Sheriffs vehicle and one that got swapped from car to car with whichever senior deputy was working... Now they are cheap enough every 10 year old kid has them- and you can communicate around the world with them...
 

Mike

Well-known member
2012 Tax Credit for Electric or Hybrid cars is $7,500.00.

The tax credit for each individual electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid phases out as soon as its manufacturer sells 200,000 units of it.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
As a retired person- I'd love to see these free stations around the country while doing a little traveling...But - when someone becomes rich folk-

when someone becomes rich folk,... they get a expensive electric car and you help pay for it... and it's fuel ..

Are you willing to pay more taxes so a rich Californian guy can drive a pricey car for "Free" ?,.. cause that is about what is happening...

nothing is free,.. someone has to eventually pay for it..

but if it makes you feel good thinking it is fine for your grandkids to pay for a rich guys fancy car..and "free fuel" then have at it...

Didn't the government end the tax rebates on electric cars? And my understanding is that these solar powered chargers are paid for thru the extra electrical power they sell back to the grid....So- besides the initial government loans the company got for setup (which they are repaying in record time) what government money is involved?....

Yep- right now electric vehicles are quite pricey and still much in the developmental stage-- but I remember a time when cell phones were huge bulky units that besides being very unreliable were very expensive...Thirty years ago our Sheriffs office could only afford 2- one for the Sheriffs vehicle and one that got swapped from car to car with whichever senior deputy was working... Now they are cheap enough every 10 year old kid has them- and you can communicate around the world with them...

The U.S. electricity grid uses AC power. Solar cells produce DC power and it must be inverted to AC before going to the grid at a 90% reduction because of conversion/inversion inefficiencies.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
when someone becomes rich folk,... they get a expensive electric car and you help pay for it... and it's fuel ..



nothing is free,.. someone has to eventually pay for it..

but if it makes you feel good thinking it is fine for your grandkids to pay for a rich guys fancy car..and "free fuel" then have at it...

Didn't the government end the tax rebates on electric cars? And my understanding is that these solar powered chargers are paid for thru the extra electrical power they sell back to the grid....So- besides the initial government loans the company got for setup (which they are repaying in record time) what government money is involved?....

Yep- right now electric vehicles are quite pricey and still much in the developmental stage-- but I remember a time when cell phones were huge bulky units that besides being very unreliable were very expensive...Thirty years ago our Sheriffs office could only afford 2- one for the Sheriffs vehicle and one that got swapped from car to car with whichever senior deputy was working... Now they are cheap enough every 10 year old kid has them- and you can communicate around the world with them...

The U.S. electricity grid uses AC power. Solar cells produce DC power and it must be inverted to AC before going to the grid at a 90% reduction because of conversion/inversion inefficiencies.

Yep- like I said earlier- much of the technology is very new and still much in the development stage- just the same as cell phones were 30-40 years ago...

And cell phones (just like alternative fuel vehicles are now) received much of their kickstart from government grants and government funded projects to expand wireless communications around the country...
And today- I would bet many can't remember how they could have operated without their cell phone availability....
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
Oldtimer said:
Didn't the government end the tax rebates on electric cars? And my understanding is that these solar powered chargers are paid for thru the extra electrical power they sell back to the grid....So- besides the initial government loans the company got for setup (which they are repaying in record time) what government money is involved?....

Yep- right now electric vehicles are quite pricey and still much in the developmental stage-- but I remember a time when cell phones were huge bulky units that besides being very unreliable were very expensive...Thirty years ago our Sheriffs office could only afford 2- one for the Sheriffs vehicle and one that got swapped from car to car with whichever senior deputy was working... Now they are cheap enough every 10 year old kid has them- and you can communicate around the world with them...

The U.S. electricity grid uses AC power. Solar cells produce DC power and it must be inverted to AC before going to the grid at a 90% reduction because of conversion/inversion inefficiencies.

Yep- like I said earlier- much of the technology is very new and still much in the development stage- just the same as cell phones were 30-40 years ago...

And cell phones (just like alternative fuel vehicles are now) received much of their kickstart from government grants and government funded projects to expand wireless communications around the country...
And today- I would bet many can't remember how they could have operated without their cell phone availability....

Cell phones are nothing like cars. Cell phones take little to no energy. Electric automobile technology is much older than cell phones too.

In the late 1800s, France and Great Britain were the first nations to support the widespread development of electric vehicles. In 1899, a Belgian built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for land speed - 68 mph - designed by Camille Jénatzy.
It was not until 1895 that Americans began to devote attention to electric vehicles after an electric tricycle was built by A. L. Ryker and William Morrison built a six-passenger wagon both in 1891. Many innovations followed and interest in motor vehicles increased greatly in the late 1890s and early 1900s. In fact, William Morrison's design with a capacity for passenger is often considered the first real and practical EV.

In 1897, the first commercial EV application was established as a fleet of New York City taxis built by the Electric Carriage and Wagon Company of Philadelphia.

Increased Popularity

By the turn of the century, America was prosperous and cars, now available in steam, electric, or gasoline versions, were becoming more popular. The years 1899 and 1900 were the high point of electric cars in America, as they outsold all other types of cars. One example was the 1902 Phaeton built by the Woods Motor Vehicle Company of Chicago, which had a range of 18 miles, a top speed of 14 mph and cost $2,000. Later in 1916, Woods invented a hybrid car that had both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor.
Electric vehicles had many advantages over their competitors in the early 1900s. They did not have the vibration, smell, and noise associated with gasoline cars. Changing gears on gasoline cars was the most difficult part of driving, while electric vehicles did not require gear changes. While steam-powered cars also had no gear shifting, they suffered from long start-up times of up to 45 minutes on cold mornings. The steam cars had less range before needing water than an electric's range on a single charge. The only good roads of the period were in town, causing most travel to be local commuting, a perfect situation for electric vehicles, since their range was limited. The electric vehicle was the preferred choice of many because it did not require the manual effort to start, as with the hand crank on gasoline vehicles, and there was no wrestling with a gear shifter.

While basic electric cars cost under $1,000, most early electric vehicles were ornate, massive carriages designed for the upper class. They had fancy interiors, with expensive materials, and averaged $3,000 by 1910. Electric vehicles enjoyed success into the 1920s with production peaking in 1912.

Same as cell phones 30-40 years ago? As with electric vehicles, we've already been there, done that. :roll:


By the way, what are you gonna do about charging your car using solar when the sun doesn't shine for a few days? :lol:
 
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