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katrina

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I apologize for my really bad behavior... We are going through some things with the corporation, trying to split it up and this is a really bad thing.... So I'm going to be gone for awhile.... I love ya all... Big MUddy, tam, fh, burnt, justin steve, kris, soap.....

Word of advice, Don't ever do this to your kids.... :(
 

burnt

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Hang in there kiddo and just do what you gotta do! Can't say that I noticed any bad behavior anyway but then again I'm not the sharpest tack in the box!

Best wishes on the transition - those things are never easy and that's why most don't do anything until it's forced upon them. You will come out just fine in the end although it may not feel like it until then.

Take care of yourself Katrina.
 

nmhighdesert

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Katrina, your level of bad behavior is a level of good behavior most of us aspire to achieve.
Take care and like they say, "where would we go"?
 

Larrry

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Two things

One it might show as bad behavior because it is not an everday occurence like a couple left members. When they have bad behavior as the norm it isn't noticable.

The human mind always thinks of the worst case scenario. Don't let the worst case scenario drag You down. It is never as bad as the mind puts forth
 

littlejoe

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About 2000 or so, we'd been thru some pretty hard times. Trucking couple hundred miles to grass, $100 hay---it was dry.

Tired of it, we sold half our cows. Rather than pay the IRS, we put $$ into the stock market.

I do not recommend this type of behaviour---turned out the IRS probably wouldn't either and I discovered they are an exceptionally humourless bunch.

At any rate, I'd done a fair amt of research and had some luck--the investment worked out quite nicely.

Chatting with my neighbors, they told me about their folks problem---the folks had turned a ranch over to a kid, the kid had some 'issues', sold the place for about a million bucks---he spent the money, the irs was after the folks for the taxes on the gain.

They'd found an attorney who used to work for irs--actually had 20 or so lawyers under him----

This guy is now in private practice---his specialty is dealing with IRS and Estate planning. My neighbors and I are VERY satisfied. I hesitate to post info on public bb, but will furnish contact info via pm to anybody who thinks his services might be necessary.
 

Justin

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"there is nothin' better than business with family when it works, and there is nothin' worse when it don't." -Donald Trump
 

Big Muddy rancher

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I think a bunch of us are at the stage of life where Estate planning should be done. :?

Sometimes it's not as clear cut as one would like and difficult decisions need to be made.

Not saying i've done much yet, would appreciate ideas.
 

Jinglebob

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Big Muddy rancher said:
I think a bunch of us are at the stage of life where Estate planning should be done. :?

Sometimes it's not as clear cut as one would like and difficult decisions need to be made.

Not saying I've done much yet, would appreciate ideas.
Not sure what you are looking for as far as info, but one thing I found out some neighbors do, who are a fair sized family, when a son is ready to join in, he buys a set amount of life insurance on the oldest member. He pays the cost and when said member dies, the whole ranch gets the money, pointed towards expansion, form the way things have been going in the past, evidently. Also have a neighbor who the wife and husband bought insurance on the father and mother. When the father died, the son who was not on the ranch got the money and the husband/wife, got half the land. When the mother passes on, the son will get the insurance and the couple will get title to the rest of the land. At least that is how it was explained to me Seems like a fair way to do it.

The Catholic Church has a non profit institution of some sort that will help with estate planning. I one instance, a couple left money to the institution, which drop the taxes enough that the heirs were better off than if they had done nothing. I don't think yo have to leave them anything, as far as the institution, but in cases like this, it was a win/win. Probably other Churches also have similar programs/institutions.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Jinglebob said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I think a bunch of us are at the stage of life where Estate planning should be done. :?

Sometimes it's not as clear cut as one would like and difficult decisions need to be made.

Not saying I've done much yet, would appreciate ideas.
Not sure what you are looking for as far as info, but one thing I found out some neighbors do, who are a fair sized family, when a son is ready to join in, he buys a set amount of life insurance on the oldest member. He pays the cost and when said member dies, the whole ranch gets the money, pointed towards expansion, form the way things have been going in the past, evidently. Also have a neighbor who the wife and husband bought insurance on the father and mother. When the father died, the son who was not on the ranch got the money and the husband/wife, got half the land. When the mother passes on, the son will get the insurance and the couple will get title to the rest of the land. At least that is how it was explained to me Seems like a fair way to do it.

The Catholic Church has a non profit institution of some sort that will help with estate planning. I one instance, a couple left money to the institution, which drop the taxes enough that the heirs were better off than if they had done nothing. I don't think yo have to leave them anything, as far as the institution, but in cases like this, it was a win/win. Probably other Churches also have similar programs/institutions.


We are doing the insurance deal,but the way it's going my dad might out live me. :D
were kind of sandwiched as we are still working with my parents and have my own kids of age where we want to bring them in. We also have 3 to treat fairly. We are not incorporated and it's hard to get a straight answer to whether it would help. Seem to get different answers depending on who you talk to.
 

Cedarcreek

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We'll forgive you Katrina. Been there, done that. Tough to go through but a whole lot better when its done and you can get on with life and run things the way you want to.
 

Faster horses

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Big Muddy rancher said:
Jinglebob said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I think a bunch of us are at the stage of life where Estate planning should be done. :?

Sometimes it's not as clear cut as one would like and difficult decisions need to be made.

Not saying I've done much yet, would appreciate ideas.
Not sure what you are looking for as far as info, but one thing I found out some neighbors do, who are a fair sized family, when a son is ready to join in, he buys a set amount of life insurance on the oldest member. He pays the cost and when said member dies, the whole ranch gets the money, pointed towards expansion, form the way things have been going in the past, evidently. Also have a neighbor who the wife and husband bought insurance on the father and mother. When the father died, the son who was not on the ranch got the money and the husband/wife, got half the land. When the mother passes on, the son will get the insurance and the couple will get title to the rest of the land. At least that is how it was explained to me Seems like a fair way to do it.

The Catholic Church has a non profit institution of some sort that will help with estate planning. I one instance, a couple left money to the institution, which drop the taxes enough that the heirs were better off than if they had done nothing. I don't think yo have to leave them anything, as far as the institution, but in cases like this, it was a win/win. Probably other Churches also have similar programs/institutions.


We are doing the insurance deal,but the way it's going my dad might out live me. :D
were kind of sandwiched as we are still working with my parents and have my own kids of age where we want to bring them in. We also have 3 to treat fairly. We are not incorporated and it's hard to get a straight answer to whether it would help. Seem to get different answers depending on who you talk to.

BMR, If you could talk to Broke Cowboy, he could really help you with this.


And katrina, when you have this behind you instead of in front of you,
it will be a big weight lifted off your shoulders. Hang in there, gal!!!
 

RSL

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Katrina - chin up. It will work out. The hardest part is remembering that you define the ranch, it doesn't necessarily define you (Easier said than done).

BMR - we have been through succession and are a family of 5 kids in my generation. We learned a lot, and the one thing I learned is that we are making a succession plan for the next generation (3, 5 and 8) starting now even considering they may not want to farm.
There are lots of things to think about, particularly family wise more so than $ wise. The best thing we figured out that saved us money once we learned it was the need to drive the bus at the accountant's office. Once we defined what we were going to do, he was pretty helpful, until then he had to spend time explaining all the options.
There are a couple of neat tricks you can do in Canada with partnerships that roll into corporations down the road and avoid a lot of capital gains, and other issues.
Elaine Froese is a great source on the family discussion side. We are the first generation that has not "rebought" the operation from our parents. Real estate values are such here that we would be nearly instantly bankrupt and no one in the family wants that. Instead our partnership plan is to expand and use the cash to pay a "living salary" rather than a mortgage. It helps when you are all in it together. We also bought out a brother and my parents carry an insurance policy that belongs to the other siblings in the event of their death (no point having cash if you are ranching anyway :lol: ) PM me if you want to visit some more.
 

jeff in ca

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Family issues are tough to deal with. Planning for the next generation is even tougher. Katrina I feel for you. Remember, if you could just deal with just the facts and not the emotions it would all be so simple. Been there done that.
 

Jinglebob

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Big Muddy rancher said:
Jinglebob said:
We too have 3 sons. One is a Priest and has desire or need to come home except he wants the right to someday build a retirement house here. We sat all three down when they were still fairly young and asked each what he wanted to do and who wanted to come home if any. Only one was interested at the time. We have had this discussion again, about every year or two and the one who never wanted to come home has said at times he would like to live here, but doesn't see ranching as his future. So the other one will end up here unless something changes. We are helping him and his wife to get a paid for herd, by running their cattle as cheaply as we can afford, while he works off the ranch. In the end, the one who stays here will look like he is getting much more money wise than the others. That's just the way it's got to be. I am a firm believer in what my father told me many years ago, when there were 3 of us and I as the youngest, asked about my chances to end up here. His reply was, "I will not leave or sell this place to anyone until they prove to me that can keep it after they get it." So far, that is working here too. Talk about it now, get it settled and let all the kids know that money or property does not equal love for them. Unless you have a big enough place to split evenly and keep the operation supportable, there is no sense splitting it up. All the son's know they have the right to come live here and the two who are not priests know that they can both live here someday, but they can not derive their total income from it as a viable ranch unless something changes dramatically. If one son feels bad because he didn't get to ranch here, I can not feel sorry for him if he will not do what is required to get to be here. His choice. Not mine. So far only one has shown he will do what it takes to starve to death on here as tradition demands. ;-)
 
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