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HARD TO BELIEVE

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Published: August 31, 2006


TORONTO Responding to a demand from border guards for weapons to defend themselves and combat criminals, the federal government said Thursday that it would begin arming guards in September 2007.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said some guards would begin receiving firearms next fall, with about 150 expected to be armed by March 2008. But it will take at least a decade to arm all of the nearly 5,000 guards along the Canada-United States border, Harper said. The border runs more than 5,500 miles, one-third of which is along Alaska.

The plan calls for 500 to 600 guards to be armed each year over the course of the program.

Harper, announcing the plan at a crossing south of Vancouver, British Columbia, said the move was "vital to our country's economy, and will protect the safety and security of all of our local communities."

The plan will also add a second guard at crossings that now have only one on duty, an increase of 400 guards at a cost of about $91 million.

Larger crossings, such as the one at Detroit and Windsor, Ontario, will remain relatively unaffected at first because the Royal Canadian Mounted Police already provide armed security there. The guards at airports will not receive firearms because armed police officers are present.

The unarmed guards, members of the Canadian Border Services Agency, have walked off the job several times in the past year, saying they need guns to defend the border and themselves. The union representing them threatened a strike over the issue in 2005. In January, Canadian guards in British Columbia fled their posts amid reports that two gun-wielding suspects were headed north for the border. Armed American officials apprehended the suspects. That incident came days after a federal election campaign that pitted the long-ruling Liberal Party against Harper's Conservatives. The Liberal Party opposed the arming of border guards, offering instead to add armed officers of the mounted police at the busiest crossings. Harper promised more border guards and firearms for them.

Some experts see the move as an acknowledgment that border security is a growing concern, even if it comes at the expense of smooth-flowing border traffic.

"It's a move away from the border being a place where essentially we collect taxes - recognition that it has a real security component to it that directly affects the safety and security of Canadians," Scott Newark, a security expert, said in a television interview.

Since taking office in February, Harper has tried to improve relations with the White House through an increased role in Afghanistan, a greater willingness to settle trade disputes and a more conservative stance on social issues.

Harper's decision to arm guards may allay fears in the United States that Canada is not doing its part to secure the border. When 17 homegrown terrorism suspects were arrested in Toronto in June, several American newspapers ran editorials questioning the attention paid to the Canadian border at a time when most of the focus was on the Mexican border.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said some guards would begin receiving firearms next fall, with about 150 expected to be armed by March 2008. But it will take at least a decade to arm all of the nearly 5,000 guards along the Canada-United States border, Harper said. The border runs more than 5,500 miles, one-third of which is along Alaska.

They could take one days BSE payment they gave to the multinational packers and buy them all firearms- and train them if they wanted to...Doesn't sound like much of a committment to me...

"Either you are with us or you are against us.."
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Dont sound like they are doing a good job of securing our northern border,they cut and run when they should be controlling the border,I have always wondered how Miss Tam could move across the border so freely ,now I know, no telling how many of their asses she has kicked and had em runnin for cover..............good luck
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
As long as they keep all you R-Calfers down south in your holes it's fine with me-I'm sure they wouldn't need guns to do that. You better get your house in order before you worry about ours-look at those poor Mexicans having to build fences to keep those Texans from sneaking across. As for being with you OT why not say something to the Canadian soldiers getting killed in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban-you get more pathetic every day.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
We are not talking about afghanistan ,it's the border that has us concerned.
It would'nt hurt. my feelings if they built a good fence on our northern border to match the one we are building south,put alot of cameras on it too,as there is no telling how many "BSE" infected cows those canuckle heads have snuck across the line....................good luck

PS loose the insults they're not necessary.
 

SHORTSTUFF

Well-known member
I have always wondered about the Canadian border.
A guy I know pretty well went up there in a semi to pick up a pre-cut house for himself one time 4 or 5 years ago, went in loaded the material, started back south late in the evening and found the check point locked up and the highway gated.
He did what any the rest of us might do, backtracked till he found the pasture gate, pulled in and headed south till he found another gate.
 

cowsense

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
I know a bit about the Northern border. In some places its a meandering line in the middle of a road in a town. It's much harder to police than the Southern border given the large number of back and forths in towns like that. Not like the Southern border where there is desert and you can see aliens coming for miles. Northern border presents more real danger in terms of radical Islamicists since they blend in better and there are many known groups operating in Canada versus Mexico where they don't blend in well and are not so entrenched. Northern border has huge amount of waterways - hard to patrol, exteme cold temperature in winter (hard to maintain equipment and outdoor patrol), Indian reservations, tens of languages...

:???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: Where do you get this from?? OT perhaps?? Many known groups, blend in better, tens of languages etc!!!!!!!!!!!! Better build your fence so your own terrorist groups don't get out! :mad:
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
cowsense said:
reader (the Second) said:
I know a bit about the Northern border. In some places its a meandering line in the middle of a road in a town. It's much harder to police than the Southern border given the large number of back and forths in towns like that. Not like the Southern border where there is desert and you can see aliens coming for miles. Northern border presents more real danger in terms of radical Islamicists since they blend in better and there are many known groups operating in Canada versus Mexico where they don't blend in well and are not so entrenched. Northern border has huge amount of waterways - hard to patrol, exteme cold temperature in winter (hard to maintain equipment and outdoor patrol), Indian reservations, tens of languages...

:???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: :???: Where do you get this from?? OT perhaps?? Many known groups, blend in better, tens of languages etc!!!!!!!!!!!! Better build your fence so your own terrorist groups don't get out! :mad:

Cowsense,after 911 we take border security much more serious,nothing personal to folks like you and yours,R2 is right terrorists dont stand a chance in Mexico,those Mexicans would be on them in seconds,while some of the Mexicans are coruptt, believe it or not most of the Mexicans are good people,also the border is well defined,IM not sure about our northern border,never seen it.........but I plan to pretty quick...............good luck
 
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Anonymous

Guest
SHORTSTUFF said:
I have always wondered about the Canadian border.
A guy I know pretty well went up there in a semi to pick up a pre-cut house for himself one time 4 or 5 years ago, went in loaded the material, started back south late in the evening and found the check point locked up and the highway gated.
He did what any the rest of us might do, backtracked till he found the pasture gate, pulled in and headed south till he found another gate.

Used to be able to do that anywhere- anytime...Lot harder now with the electronic and aerial surveillance they've added to the border...Along with about 10 times the manpower- and Tams new forts to check her out :wink: ....In that same pasture now- even a passing jackrabbit will set off the alarms and bring in the planes, helicopters, and the border patrol...

Sounds like they may change the whole mission of Malmstrom AFB (Great Falls)- anyway thats what the congressmen are pushing for- Turn its mission to guarding us from Canada along the northern border....

And cowsense- you do have many radical Islamic groups operating in Canada- some have been since back in the early 90's....I think your government intelligence agencies have identified over 70 active groups....Really makes a guy feel secure when you see a Trans X truck loaded with beef coming into the US driven by a family of sheet heads, that you know were probably never checked out before being allowed to immigrate because of Canadas lax immigration policy.....

Some day Canada will wake up to the danger that exists too and start picking up their fair share of the job of border protection and internal security....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Here is a related article:

Today 9/1/2006 11:53:00 PM


Canada Truck, Air Industry Denounce New US Border Fees



TORONTO (Dow Jones)--Canadian airline and trucking industries are strongly opposed to a U.S. Department of Agriculture plan to levy new fees on air travelers and commercial shipments from Canada, calling the plan a nonsensical, self-serving measure that could clog the border and discourage air travel, Canadian Press reported Friday.



The U.S. government said it intends to tighten agricultural inspections at the Canada-U.S. border in an effort to guard against the perceived threat of pests, disease and even bioterrorism. As a result, commercial products and air travelers crossing the border will be subject to "user fees" as of Nov. 24, Canadian Press reported.



"It's unnecessary and I think it has more to do with revenue generation than anything else," said Fred Gaspar, spokesman for the Air Transport Association of Canada.



"This is ostensibly to pay for an agricultural inspection program, but it's going to be universally applicable to every passenger and every airline."



Commercial aircraft arriving in the U.S. from Canada will have to pay $70.25, trucks $5.25 per crossing or $105 for the year, loaded rail cars $7.50 and commercial vessels $488, Canadian Press reported, adding that many of the fees will increase slightly in the next fiscal year.



Graham Cooper, senior vice-president of the Canadian Trucking Association, said he too was concerned about rules he considers far too broad.



"It would appear that the U.S. Department of Agriculture is intending to apply a user fee on all trucks that cross the border irrespective of whether they are carrying fruits and vegetables or machine parts," Cooper said.



All trucks that cross the border from Canada are required to give U.S. customs advance notice of what they are carrying.



"If a truck is carrying a load of machine parts, hopefully we don't find the U.S. Department of Agriculture opening it up, looking for tomatoes," Cooper said.



Melissa O'Dell, a spokesperson for the U.S. Agriculture Department's animal and plant health inspection service, noted that the surcharges have been in place since the early 1990s, and Canada has been exempt until now, Canadian Press reported.



"With increased trade, we have decided to re-evaluate our inspection process along the Canada-U.S. border," O'Dell said.



Both the airline and trucking representatives say they are voicing their concerns to the government about the detrimental effects they foresee to their respective industries and slow-downs at the border, Canadian Press reported.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
Four Canadians killed in major Afghan offensive
Updated Sun. Sep. 3 2006 11:29 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Four Canadian soldiers were killed and six others were wounded during a major NATO offensive against insurgents in a volatile district in southern Afghanistan on Sunday.


"I am saddened to announce that four Canadian soldiers were killed during today's operations and a number of others were wounded" in the Panjwaii district, west of Kandahar, said Canadian Brig.-Gen. David Fraser at a news conference.


"All but one of the wounded is expected to return to their duties within the next few days."


Fraser offered his condolences to the families of the victims, but only two of the fallen soldiers have been identified:


Warrant Officer Frank Robert Mellish
Warrant Officer Richard Francis Nolan

Both are members of 1st Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment, based in CFB Petawawa in eastern Ontario.

They had been in the Canadian Forces for more than fifteen years and were veterans of several overseas missions. They also leave behind a spouse and children -- Nolan had three sons and one stepdaughter.


"I can tell you first and foremost that Frank and Rick were dedicated fathers to young boys, and I think that is what should define them -- that there core family values were extremely strong," said Maj. Peter Scott.


An official with NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said the soldiers died when they were hit by enemy fire in fighting in Panjwaii district, west of the city of Kandahar.


Of the six wounded soldiers, two reportedly suffered light enough injuries for them to stay on in the combat area.


Fraser said that despite the deaths, the operation was a success.


According to ISAF, "more than 200 Taliban fighters have been killed since the beginning of operation Medusa early Saturday morning" in the Panjwaii district, said Fraser.


Further, he said more than 80 suspected Taliban fighters have been captured by the Afghan national police, and "an additional 180 insurgents were seen fleeing the district."


The major air and ground offensive -- dubbed Operation Medusa -- includes Canadian, British and American troops fighting alongside Afghan forces in Kandahar province.


The goal is to take control of the Taliban stronghold of Panjwaii, which covers an area roughly between 20 and 40 kilometres west of Kandahar city -- an area where Canadian troops have suffered casualties before, during heavy battles with Taliban insurgents in which at least six Canadians have died and 32 wounded.


"Despite these losses, Operation Medusa will continue,'' Fraser said. "ISAF is determined to remove the Taliban threat from this region."


Col. Fred Lewis, commander of the Canadian contingent, said he expected his troops to encounter fierce resistance from Taliban guerrillas during this mission.


"I think we're talking in the neighbourhood of hundreds" of fighters, said Lewis on Saturday. "Certainly not thousands, not tens. Might they just fade away? If they're smart, they will."


NATO said there were no reports of civilian casualties, despite the heavy bombardment in the area. However, Afghan defence officials said earlier that an uncertain number of civilians are dead after two days of fighting in the region.


A NATO statement said forces had gained ground during the operation, which was continuing Sunday.


McClure, the only reporter embedded with Canadian troops during the mission on Saturday, said commanders appeared confident during the heavy offensive.


"In the back of their minds, though, I think they knew that this was not going to be easy," said McClure.


The Taliban fighters "were well dug in, in their defensive positions in those vineyards, in the mud wall compounds and the verdant valley -- one of the rare bits of greenery you find here in Afghanistan -- and that it might come to tough house-to-house fighting, which Canadians have been trained to handle but haven't seen a lot of up until this recent tour."


He added: "As one soldier we're told said on the ground this morning shortly after the incident: 'We had our nose bloodied today."


With the latest deaths, 31 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002.


The Canadian casualties come one day after NATO suffered heavy losses. Fourteen British soldiers were killed Saturday after a Royal Air Force Nimrod MR2 aircraft crashed about 15 kilometres west of Kandahar city.


Officials say the crash was caused by a technical problem, although the Taliban claimed its fighters shot down the plane with a Stinger missile.


The British Defence Ministry said the dead included 12 Royal Air Force personnel, a Royal Marine and an army soldier.
 

Bob_Frapples

Well-known member
Maybe you good people from America are for-getting one thing.The persons entering your country are not controled by canada but rather by the mighty U.S.of A. So if unrulys are getting in ,it is your border personel turning and running.
 

Bob_Frapples

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
SHORTSTUFF said:
I have always wondered about the Canadian border.
A guy I know pretty well went up there in a semi to pick up a pre-cut house for himself one time 4 or 5 years ago, went in loaded the material, started back south late in the evening and found the check point locked up and the highway gated.
He did what any the rest of us might do, backtracked till he found the pasture gate, pulled in and headed south till he found another gate.

Used to be able to do that anywhere- anytime...Lot harder now with the electronic and aerial surveillance they've added to the border...Along with about 10 times the manpower- and Tams new forts to check her out :wink: ....In that same pasture now- even a passing jackrabbit will set off the alarms and bring in the planes, helicopters, and the border patrol...

Sounds like they may change the whole mission of Malmstrom AFB (Great Falls)- anyway thats what the congressmen are pushing for- Turn its mission to guarding us from Canada along the northern border....

And cowsense- you do have many radical Islamic groups operating in Canada- some have been since back in the early 90's....I think your government intelligence agencies have identified over 70 active groups....Really makes a guy feel secure when you see a Trans X truck loaded with beef coming into the US driven by a family of sheet heads, that you know were probably never checked out before being allowed to immigrate because of Canadas lax immigration policy.....

Some day Canada will wake up to the danger that exists too and start picking up their fair share of the job of border protection and internal security....



Hey Mr Old timer,if we have that many radical islamic groups operating in Canada,think how many must be active in the U.S.of A? If people come to Canada through the border,where are they comming from?

Old timer,since you are so well versed in the Canadian imigration law.Please inform us on the differences between American and Canadian Imigration policies,processes and time frames for entering each country? Also please inform us of your education of such knowledge and on how long you have been a practicing imigration lawyer for? I thank you in advance for your speedy reply.
 

MsSage

Well-known member
I want to ask a question.........why are some of you Canuks allowing a person to stir up tension? Yall already know haymaker likes to poke at NR and get him going. NR hits haymaker over his head with the stick.....come on :?
We all know the border follows the rules the GOVERNMENT gives them ~right ~wrong ~or indifferent.
YES the border has been in the past easy hmmmmmm could that be BECAUSE USA & CANADA have worked TOGETHER and have tried to keep the border free flowing?
Yall want to argue POLITICS take it over to Political BULL

I am going to give some EXCELLENT advice I was given IGNORE THEM all they want is to stir you up and make you look the fool :roll:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Bob_Frapples said:
Oldtimer said:
SHORTSTUFF said:
I have always wondered about the Canadian border.
A guy I know pretty well went up there in a semi to pick up a pre-cut house for himself one time 4 or 5 years ago, went in loaded the material, started back south late in the evening and found the check point locked up and the highway gated.
He did what any the rest of us might do, backtracked till he found the pasture gate, pulled in and headed south till he found another gate.

Used to be able to do that anywhere- anytime...Lot harder now with the electronic and aerial surveillance they've added to the border...Along with about 10 times the manpower- and Tams new forts to check her out :wink: ....In that same pasture now- even a passing jackrabbit will set off the alarms and bring in the planes, helicopters, and the border patrol...

Sounds like they may change the whole mission of Malmstrom AFB (Great Falls)- anyway thats what the congressmen are pushing for- Turn its mission to guarding us from Canada along the northern border....

And cowsense- you do have many radical Islamic groups operating in Canada- some have been since back in the early 90's....I think your government intelligence agencies have identified over 70 active groups....Really makes a guy feel secure when you see a Trans X truck loaded with beef coming into the US driven by a family of sheet heads, that you know were probably never checked out before being allowed to immigrate because of Canadas lax immigration policy.....

Some day Canada will wake up to the danger that exists too and start picking up their fair share of the job of border protection and internal security....



Hey Mr Old timer,if we have that many radical islamic groups operating in Canada,think how many must be active in the U.S.of A? If people come to Canada through the border,where are they comming from?

Old timer,since you are so well versed in the Canadian imigration law.Please inform us on the differences between American and Canadian Imigration policies,processes and time frames for entering each country? Also please inform us of your education of such knowledge and on how long you have been a practicing imigration lawyer for? I thank you in advance for your speedy reply.

Mr. Flapples- not an attorney-- but I did spend 10 years of bimonthly meetings in both the States and Canada with the Mounties and the Canadian immigration and border people constantly expressing their big concerns about the radical Islamic groups moving into Canada...As I gathered it from them- Canada has or had a law that allowed anyone to gain access to the country and reside if they declared they were a political refugee and were in danger in their home country( reason for your Vietnamese communities)...According to these Canadian authorities Islamics were gaining entry with little or no background checking claiming political asylum...The mounties had major concerns about some of these groups 15 years ago- and already were doing intel work, altho it was not a high level project of the government...

I do believe the US has major problems too- with both a corrupt and inept immigration department and on the Mexican Border- and our current government is not doing enough to solve it...Sheriffs from Arizona and N.M. are now reporting that middle eastern types are coming in thru S.A. (Venezuela ?), taking Spanish lessons and trying to pass themselves off as Latino, getting into Mexico, where they have tens of thousands of $ to hire armed Coyotes to get them into the states to disappear to somewhere- possibly on into Canada, where they can receive aid and assistance from these groups already set up...

Mr. Flappies- with all the miles of border and ocean Canada has- the US used to depend on Canada to be the major border security we had to the north- but with Canadas actions or lack of action of the last several years the US has lost a lot of faith in how worthwhile that security is...Not many years ago it was already a safer route to get Mexican Mary Jane and Columbian Coke into the US by going thru Canadian ocean and air connections then it was to run it direct- the druggers we picked up were saying it was longer- more expensive- but less danger of being caught...What else is now coming in thru those airports, ports, and ocean connections now?

If Al Quaeda gets a baby nuke into Canada- they'd just as soon set it off in Montreal, Ottowa, or Calgary as take the chance of getting caught trying to get it to New York or D.C...It will still get them their world coverage and kill infidels....

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said some guards would begin receiving firearms next fall, with about 150 expected to be armed by March 2008. But it will take at least a decade to arm all of the nearly 5,000 guards along the Canada-United States border, Harper said. The border runs more than 5,500 miles, one-third of which is along Alaska.

The plan calls for 500 to 600 guards to be armed each year over the course of the program.

Taking 10 years to arm guards that probably always should have been armed does not sound to me like much of a committment....

Guess it will take that long to fund it thru Canada's National Defense Budget at a rate of $2 per person annually :wink: :(
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
We took a cruise in 2001 from Anchorage to Seattle, going down the Inside Passage. At Vancouver we got on a bus to Seattle. There was a lot of people on that bus and when we got to customs, no one even stepped in and looked us over. I never thought much of it at the time, but since then I certainly have.( Interesting that we flew out for home on Sept. 10, 2001.)

There could have been terrorists easily on that bus or any other bus
for that matter.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
So do you guys want to fence off Florida? Isn't that where the 911 pilots trained? Yes lots of country that you couldn't even telltheir was a border.

Along with Big Muddy's question (which, by the way, no one has bothered to answer) I would like to know if the U.S. has initiated a policy against giving flight training to any Muslims. It would only seem reasonable and in the best interests of "Homeland Security", if you want to follow the general standards that you like to set for Canadians.

Or, maybe you just like to highlight the perceived faults in another country in order to help you ignor the possibilities within your own borders. Does the U.S. not allow any Muslims to enter the country? If you do, how do you know which ones are "safe"?

Man, oldtimer, we like you better when you are stone-cold drunk. That way, you are less of an embarrassment to your fellow-humans than when you come up for air.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
MsSage said:
I want to ask a question.........why are some of you Canuks allowing a person to stir up tension? Yall already know haymaker likes to poke at NR and get him going. NR hits haymaker over his head with the stick.....come on :?
We all know the border follows the rules the GOVERNMENT gives them ~right ~wrong ~or indifferent.
YES the border has been in the past easy hmmmmmm could that be BECAUSE USA & CANADA have worked TOGETHER and have tried to keep the border free flowing?
Yall want to argue POLITICS take it over to Political BULL

I am going to give some EXCELLENT advice I was given IGNORE THEM all they want is to stir you up and make you look the fool :roll:

I know he is only baiting us. I mean come on, they are making fun of us for not being more militant about keeping Americans out of Canada.
But here is the thing. You would think that Americans on here would say something?
I have been always outspoken whenever a Canadian says something silly about you guys. Cant help but to think sometimes your all like Haymaker.
Im starting to think we should militarise the border :lol:
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
MsSage said:
I want to ask a question.........why are some of you Canuks allowing a person to stir up tension? Yall already know haymaker likes to poke at NR and get him going. NR hits haymaker over his head with the stick.....come on :?
We all know the border follows the rules the GOVERNMENT gives them ~right ~wrong ~or indifferent.
YES the border has been in the past easy hmmmmmm could that be BECAUSE USA & CANADA have worked TOGETHER and have tried to keep the border free flowing?
Yall want to argue POLITICS take it over to Political BULL

I am going to give some EXCELLENT advice I was given IGNORE THEM all they want is to stir you up and make you look the fool :roll:

I know he is only baiting us. I mean come on, they are making fun of us for not being more militant about keeping Americans out of Canada.
But here is the thing. You would think that Americans on here would say something?
I have been always outspoken whenever a Canadian says something silly about you guys. Cant help but to think sometimes your all like Haymaker.
Im starting to think we should militarise the border :lol:

RoperBA, I think some of you canucks just dont like the truth being told,all I did was post an article that was in your own news paper,you canuckle heads read it and start making insults,kinda like .hey I dont like the message so IMa gonna get the messenger,all Old Timer did was state some facts,if you can dispute this....DO IT,if you cant why make insults to some one that is bringing factual information to the board ?...........good luck
PS You gotta admitt it was kinda funny ta hear about those canuckle heads runnin for cover when they thought some desparados was coming :D :D :D I might add if you dont like to read my posts ....dont,havent you heard about the Hay maker boycott ?
 
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