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Health Care in Canada Ailing

Mike

Well-known member
10/10/2007

Mothers in British Columbia are having a baby boom, but it's the United States that has to deliver, and that has some proud Canadians blasting their highly touted government healthcare system.

"I'm a born-bred Canadian, as well as my daughter and son, and I'm ashamed," Jill Irvine told FOX News. Irvine's daughter, Carri Ash, is one of at least 40 mothers or their babies who've been airlifted from British Columbia to the U.S. this year because Canadian hospitals didn't have room for the preemies in their neonatal units.

"It's a big number and bigger than the previous capacity of the system to deal with it," said Adrian Dix, a British Columbia legislator, told FOXNews.com. "So when that happens, you can't have a waiting list for a mother having the baby. She just has the baby."



The mothers have been flown to hospitals in Seattle, Everett, Wash., and Spokane, Wash., to receive treatment, as well as hospitals in the neighboring province of Alberta, Dix said. Three mothers were airlifted in the first weekend of October alone, including Carri Ash.

"I just want to go home and see my kids," she said from her Seattle hospital bed. "I think it's stupid I have to be here."

Canada's socialized health care system, hailed as a model by Michael Moore in his documentary, "Sicko," is hurting, government officials admit, citing not enough money for more equipment and staff to handle high risk births.
Sarah Plank, a spokeswoman for the British Columbia Ministry of Health, said a spike in high risk and premature births coupled with the lack of trained nurses prompted the surge in mothers heading across the border for better care.

"The number of transfers in previous years has been quite low," Plank told FOXNews.com. "Before this recent spike we went for more than a year with no transfers to the U.S., so this is something that is happening in other provinces as well."

Critics say these border crossings highlight the dangers of a government-run health care system.

"The Canadian healthcare system has used the United States as a safety net for years," said Michael Turner of the Cato Institute. "In fact, overall about one out of every seven Canadian physicians sends someone to the United States every year for treatment."

Neonatal intensive care units in Alberta and Ontario have also been stretched to capacity, she said.

The cost of these airlifts and treatments, paid to U.S. hospitals by the province under Canada's universal health care system, runs upwards of $1,000 a child.

"We clearly want to see more capacity built in the Canadian system because it’s also expensive for taxpayers here to send people out of the country," Dix said.

The surge could be due to women giving birth later in life, and passport restrictions and family separation adds to the stress.

"I think it’s reasonable to think that this is a trend that would continue and we have to prepare for it and increase the number of beds to deal with perhaps the new reality of the number of premature babies and newborns needing a higher level of care in Canada," Dix said.

British Columbia has added more neonatal beds and increased funding for specialized nurse training, Plank said.

"There is an identified need for some additional capacity just due to population growth and that sort of thing and that is actively being implemented," she said.

FOX News' Dan Springer contributed to this report.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
I have nothing but the greatest disgust for people like Jill Irvine who trash a system that has contributed life, health and well-being to far more people than it has inconvenienced. What is she complaining about?

The healthcare system cannot predict when there might be abnormalities in the usual balance of healthy and high risk births. So the spaces are to magically appear for Jill when there was no former need for them?

Was she grateful that her baby survived? Did she express any gratitude for the fact that the very good and extremely expensive care she received was FREE? No, there is no gratitude in her. Only bitter complaining.

If she is "ashamed" of the system that gave her all this, then she can take a hike and move to a third world country where she would get a reality check if she were faced with the same needs again.

If she thinks it is so "stupid", she could move to a place like Haiti, where, as an average citizen, she would probably be trying to find a way to pay for her daughter's funeral, and having a real reason to complain.

While our healthcare system certainly has its faults, I think that Jill Irvine has the least reason of anyone to complain.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
I agree with MLA. If this woman is so disgusted with the health system in her country maybe she should have just allowed the US to directly bill her . Our health care system may not be perfect but I'd take it over the US's anyday.Maybe she had to have her child transpored to another country at her countrys expense,but at least she wasn't turned away because she couldn't pay for it. :roll:


Oh Ya...Fox news,who the H E double L believes ANYTHING that garbage reporting system reports
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Wow, Mrs. Greg...I take it you don't like Fox News?

Our Fox News is the best news station going...so I'm suprised Canada's
isn't the same. :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Mrs.Greg said:
I agree with MLA. If this woman is so disgusted with the health system in her country maybe she should have just allowed the US to directly bill her . Our health care system may not be perfect but I'd take it over the US's anyday.Maybe she had to have her child transpored to another country at her countrys expense,but at least she wasn't turned away because she couldn't pay for it. :roll:


Oh Ya...Fox news,who the H E double L believes ANYTHING that garbage reporting system reports

When have you ever heard of a lady having a Baby being turned away from a Hospital in the U.S.? Never heard of it happening. I would bet you a dollar to a thousand dollars that when you sent the lady down here to have her baby no one asked about method of payment!

Years ago I had a side ache went to a local hospital, did not have health insurance at the time. When it was all said and done I had my gallbladder taken out and they fixed a hernia that I had. It was not emergency, it could have been put off due to no insurance. But they took me, fixed me.

I was not turned away due to no insurance or way to pay at the time. You need to listen more to fox maybe you would get the truth instead of listening to everyone else and believing you know the truth.

You believe way to much liberal crap you hear about the U.S. otherwise you would not be so reluctant to disbelieve what you hear on Fox.

Facts are Facts, people get free medical all the time in the U.S. not only from our own country but from other countries also. If you do not know first hand then you should not be so quick to express that you do!
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Maybe you need to go into coffeeshop and read the thread about health insurance that yOUR countrymen posted,then come back and tell me how great your system is...OK

As for fox news its nothing but Anti-Canadian propaganda bullshite and if you don't believe me ask other Canadians,we unfortunatly get fox news and watch the crap they report. Like three-four days after 911,reporting how unsecure the Canadian border was and you Americans fell for it,not realising that these guys crossed YOUR unsecure borders NOT ours.

Mike only posted this to get a reaction,you,Mike or anyone else In US doesn't know or cares to know anything about our healthcare.Last summer my nephew was in the Stollery hospital{childrens} there was another little boy in there from the US :shock: taking cancer treatments because the Stollery was one of the few that did this type of Chemo. So don't even think your funny reporting about some crossing the border for health care,it goes both ways,something Fox will NEVER report to you cause how can you stay in your little American bubbles if they report theres actually a world out there doesn't revolve around You guys

I read a thread today,loved this saying....If you don't know poop don't talk poop.......Thats how I feel when some of you Americans think our healthcare system is your business.

Kola hows that for thick skin.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yep-- Mrs. Greg-- everyone down here goes up to Regina to get the lasar surgery done on their eyes--newer techniques not allowed in the US and about 1/4 the cost it is in Billings....

Many times the cancer cures and pharmaceuticals that are being used in Canada are not allowed in the US- because not enough money has greased the palms of FDA officials and politicians to get FDA to approve them-- or a competing pharmaceutical company puts up big lobbying money to hold something new off the market while they still have a patent on THEIR money making drug :roll: :( :mad:
 

Cal

Well-known member
I've read both real good and real bad (but face to face have not heard anything good) about Canada's health care system, and sort of reached the conclusion that it probably depends upon where you're located that makes the difference on what sort of care you recieve. Also, the policies of the US government seem to be a big topic for many Canadians, so don't really see the hullaboo about us yankees discussing anything Canadian.

The question I have, is how much is the Canadian system costing approximately per person, and what is the level of medical and pharmaceutical research and development being done in Canada at this time, verses, say....before the current health care system was put in place?

Personally, I cringe at the thought of anything else socialistic being adopted by the US. Our track record on the administration of entitlements leaves much to be desired.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Gee, Mrs. Greg. You certainly believe in the "Shoot The Messenger" philosophy don't you? :lol:

Health care costs have gotten out of control in the U.S. and Canada, and I don't see a quick fix any time soon.

I think it's great that U.S. hospitals are taking up the slack in your inadequacies, (and vice-versa) don't you? :lol: :lol:

Why before you know it, we'll all be one big happy family in the "North American Union". :lol:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Way to go Mrs G!!! Glad to see that hide gettin' thick!!! :lol: :lol:

ALL health care systems have their best points and their bad points...ours in the US included.

ALL of them, both sides of the border could use some updating of techniques, equip & personnel I'm sure.

In fact, if they--any medical facility-- DON'T or WON'T tell you what they can or can not do in any case of illness..you better haul arse and get out!!

I think it's admirable for any institution to say, " we can't do whatever"....BUT...we know who can". That's the good part of the Canadian baby story, they realized they could not BUT they knew how to fix it! I'm sure that young man from the US in Canada getting chemo was told the same thing on this side of the border and all were lucky and alive from that honesty.

AND..... FOX news IS crap!! No matter where you watch it on the planet!!
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Mike said:
Gee, Mrs. Greg. You certainly believe in the "Shoot The Messenger" philosophy don't you? :lol:

Health care costs have gotten out of control in the U.S. and Canada, and I don't see a quick fix any time soon.

I think it's great that U.S. hospitals are taking up the slack in your inadequacies, (and vice-versa) don't you? :lol: :lol:

Why before you know it, we'll all be one big happy family in the "North American Union". :lol:

Hey Mikey boy, you ole watermelon seed-spitter, I just crave the day when I can truly call you BROTHA! No imaginary lines to divide what should be one big, happy family. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
AND..... FOX news IS crap!! No matter where you watch it on the planet!!
You meant FAUX Noise, right? News is something you report....Noise is something you create.


As a person who lived under the British system, the Canadian System and currently under the US system, I believe the Canadian System is superior to just about any in the world.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
OK Cal,I looked up some of the info you asked for,because I hate long cut and pastes I just took a couple pieces out of articles I found on Goggle{Kola you owe me commission} :lol:

The truth is that Canada now spends about $2,600 per resident per year less than we spend on healthcare costs in the United States because—very simply—Canadians spend less money on the actual purchase of care.

How do they do that? First, by setting fees. Fees are much lower in Canada. A physician office visit that costs $80 to $100 in the United States costs only $28.60 in Nova Scotia. The government of each Canadian province determines the exact fee schedule and price list for every physician in the province—and those Canadian fee schedules for physicians are set far below U.S. fee schedules.


A tribute to the excellent work
done by researchers at McGill University

On September 13th, I was pleased to be at McGill University to make an announcement for funding of $16.6 million towards health research grants and clinical trials over the next 5 years to McGill University and its affiliates.

Several weeks ago, the Canadian government announced the first of the $147 million in Medical Research Council of Canada (MRC) grants resulting from the MRC's March competition.


University of Alberta

Thank you for your interest in the Department of Medicine's Graduate Education Program. Our department has over 150 members and 50 of those are scientists with expertise in clinical, basic and translational research with yearly research funding of over $20 million. We currently have over 38 graduate students working on their Masters Degree or Ph.D. in areas from molecular biology to human physiology. Our program is different from others which might provide a similar research experience because we promote interaction between basic scientists and clinical staff who have similar interests. Investment in health research is increasing dramatically in Alberta with recommended increases in funding for health research from the current $M157 to $M869 over the next ten years. The Department of Medicine will receive a part of this increased research funding and we foresee opportunities for graduate studies in our unique program. Currently the Department of Medicine assists graduate students with their tuition fees.

BC.

Technology Visit

Minister of Technology Visit

The Minister of Technology, Graeme Bowbrick (right) with Dr. Marco Marra, Associate Director of the GSC (left).
Vancouver, BC, Canada - Provincial government funding of $4.75 million for the Genome Sequence Centre at the BC Cancer Agency will help build a genomics industry in B.C. that will support research into new treatments and cures for cancer and other genetic diseases, Technology Minister Graeme Bowbrick announced



Mike,I wasn't out to shoot the messenger,he got what he was looking for....you turd :wink:

Kola,your right,niether country has a perfect system but I'm very proud of the flawed system we have.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Mrs.Greg said:
{Kola you owe me commission} :lol:


Kola,your right,niether country has a perfect system but I'm very proud of the flawed system we have.



Commission ck is in the mail!!! :wink: :wink: :wink:


And everyone should be proud of their ' warts'!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Mrs.Greg said:
Maybe you need to go into coffeeshop and read the thread about health insurance that yOUR countrymen posted,then come back and tell me how great your system is...OK

As for fox news its nothing but Anti-Canadian propaganda bullshite and if you don't believe me ask other Canadians,we unfortunatly get fox news and watch the crap they report. Like three-four days after 911,reporting how unsecure the Canadian border was and you Americans fell for it,not realising that these guys crossed YOUR unsecure borders NOT ours.

Mike only posted this to get a reaction,you,Mike or anyone else In US doesn't know or cares to know anything about our healthcare.Last summer my nephew was in the Stollery hospital{childrens} there was another little boy in there from the US :shock: taking cancer treatments because the Stollery was one of the few that did this type of Chemo. So don't even think your funny reporting about some crossing the border for health care,it goes both ways,something Fox will NEVER report to you cause how can you stay in your little American bubbles if they report theres actually a world out there doesn't revolve around You guys

I read a thread today,loved this saying....If you don't know poop don't talk poop.......Thats how I feel when some of you Americans think our healthcare system is your business.

Kola hows that for thick skin.

You eluded to showing were a pregnant person in the U.S. would get denied hospital treatment in the U.S. due to no insurance as you implied.

And you are correct I do not know much about your health care, surely not as much as you claim to know about ours. But the point is I really do not care what you guys have, that is your business you have to live with it not me.

But do not tell me how are is either, I have lived on both sides of having Insurance and not having it. I have had I have had more medical problems with me and my children during the times that I have not had medical insurance than when I have had it.

I have seen my daughter become so sick they had to send her to the Kansas University Medical Center to try to figure out what is wrong with her. No insurance, no hassle!

You need to quit being so one sided, you will believe what you hear on the BBC, CNBC etc..... but when Fox shows another side to the issues you close your ears and minds.

You use to accuse me of being Anti Canadian, but if you look at your post it is obvious that in reality you have some pretty anti American views along with Liberal ideas.

Heck you are even High fiving Kolan nowadays, the poster child of Liberals.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Mrs.Greg said:
How do they do that? First, by setting fees. Fees are much lower in Canada. A physician office visit that costs $80 to $100 in the United States costs only $28.60 in Nova Scotia. The government of each Canadian province determines the exact fee schedule and price list for every physician in the province—and those Canadian fee schedules for physicians are set far below U.S. fee schedules.

If I know nothing more than this I am not interested in your health care system. How could anyone want to see a doctor that is willing to work for $28.60 a visit? You brag of this I am scared of it.

I had my carpets cleaned a few weeks ago and paid the man way more than this. I had a dead horse some time back and paid a man more than that to bury it for me.

I would not trust a doctor that would spend years to become a doctor that would work for such low pay.

How can you have the best of the best carrying for your children and he charges less than a carpet cleaner in the U.S.?

Ps. if you want to impress me with the money being spent on medical research etc......you need to change those Millions to Billions to do so.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Mrs.Greg said:
How do they do that? First, by setting fees. Fees are much lower in Canada. A physician office visit that costs $80 to $100 in the United States costs only $28.60 in Nova Scotia. The government of each Canadian province determines the exact fee schedule and price list for every physician in the province—and those Canadian fee schedules for physicians are set far below U.S. fee schedules.

If I know nothing more than this I am not interested in your health care system. How could anyone want to see a doctor that is willing to work for $28.60 a visit? You brag of this I am scared of it.

I had my carpets cleaned a few weeks ago and paid the man way more than this. I had a dead horse some time back and paid a man more than that to bury it for me.

I would not trust a doctor that would spend years to become a doctor that would work for such low pay.

How can you have the best of the best carrying for your children and he charges less than a carpet cleaner in the U.S.?
OMG,that was one of THE most narrow-minded,head stuck up your as# statements I've ever seen on here.....Canada is full of excellent Dr.s just like I assume the Us is,we also have crappy Dr's. just like the US. I didn't start this thread,I didn't bash your system,go back and read where I said your system is bad...I said I prefer ours because I know and WORK within ours.I went and looked on our dish,nope no BBC,we also don't subscribe to CNN,not part of the PKG,we have...Sorry.anything I hear about YOUR system I get from YOUR TV stations...did you MISS the part about US patients crossing INTO Canada for service??? I watched an AMERICAN realityTV show last week,where a young woman had to have her tonsills out,the people she worked with had to have a fund raising benefit so she could PAY the upwards of $4000 the surgury was going to cost,not Canadian programing American...The learning channel.

Big deal if I don't get on the I hate Kola bandwagon,her and I may agree or disagree on issues,but we respect each others take on things,just like I agreed with your statement on sin,about the being forgivin.

BTW,I agree,I did get tirading last eve,but had just returned from working at my job in our "crappy healthcare system",I'm pretty sensitive about a system that seems to be working "mostly" in favour of the people I look after.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
If I know nothing more than this I am not interested in your health care system. How could anyone want to see a doctor that is willing to work for $28.60 a visit? You brag of this I am scared of it.
What you fail to realize is that the Doctor in Canada is making MORE on that $28.60 office visit than a Doctor in the US at $80.

For every person in a US doctors office that is physically involved in delivering health care, there are three people involved in billing and insurance compliance. Having a schedule of services and a schedule of fees for those services and having an automated payment system, without the levels of scrutiny to make sure the procedure is acceptable or covered by a specific policy results in a net savings per person while maintaining the level of compensation actually involved in the delivery of health services.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Good post Goodpasture :) Heres a couple that don't really backup your statements Aplus.

Medicine"
You'll hear the term "socialized medicine" a lot as health care reform comes to the forefront in policy discussions:

Why 'Socialism' Evokes No Fear, by Joe Conason, RCP: Once among the most frightening epithets in American political culture, "socialized medicine" seems to have lost its juju. Today that phrase sounds awfully dated...

Yet ... the old buzzwords appear regularly in columns, press releases and speeches. Rudolph Giuliani, Mitt Romney and the rest of the Republican presidential pack run around squawking about socialism whenever anyone proposes health care reform. Syndicated columnist Robert Novak warns that the federally financed, state-run Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) is essentially a socialist conspiracy. So does President Bush, who has threatened to veto a modest increase in that program's funding because he doesn't want to "federalize health care."

Although the red threat still triggers an autonomic reaction among GOP true believers, the rest of the country no longer twitches to that high-pitched, far-right whistle. Most polls not only show enormous majorities favoring extension of coverage to every child, but substantial support for a radical change in how we pay and administer health insurance -- including the possibility of a single-payer system.

Why doesn't the traditional propaganda work any more? Perhaps the demise of the Soviet Union and the withering of Communism in China have had a delayed effect on public attitudes here. Both the Russians and the Chinese have turned more capitalist than the West, abandoning their former systems without substituting modern protections. ... Most Americans may also have noticed that corporate bureaucracy and corruption, which figure largely in the present health care system, are not preferable to government bureaucracy. ...

This corporate model is more expensive and less efficient than the government plans that provide care in every other industrialized nation.

And most Americans may have learned by now that such systems prevail in Western countries that aren't normally categorized as "socialist," including the United Kingdom, Japan, Spain, Canada, Germany, France, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. All these nations manage to provide their citizens with high living standards, industrial and technological innovation, and broad political and economic freedom, even after 50 years of national health insurance.

Meanwhile, the credibility of conservatives has diminished steadily. These days they cannot even achieve clarity on the meaning of their favorite cliches. For instance, the president hates "federalized health care," but sponsors a Medicare prescription drug program that wastes hundreds of billions on drug companies and private insurers. Right-wing definitions no longer seem so clear, either. When the government awards a billion dollars in sweetheart mercenary contracts to a wealthy Republican family in Michigan, that's "private enterprise." But when the government helps a struggling middle-class family in Maryland send its children to the doctor, that's creeping socialism.

Conservative ideology's declining relevance is again encouraging the politics of personal destruction. That must be why right-wing voices on the Internet, talk radio and the Fox News Channel have launched a nasty attack on the family of Graeme Frost, a 12-year-old Maryland boy who appeared in a Democratic radio commercial endorsing the SCHIP program. ...

It doesn't seem to occur to any of these strict ... moralists that the Frosts have enough trouble trying to care for their disabled daughter, or that the state of Maryland, under the SCHIP regulations, has determined that the Frost children are fully eligible for the help they obviously need. Let us not hear again ... about "family values" or "compassionate conservatism." ...




September 22, 2006
Paul Krugman: Insurance Horror Stories
In the past, insurance companies put a lot of effort and resources into identifying people likely to get sick, and then avoided extending them coverage. However, as Paul Krugman describes, insurance companies are increasingly diverting even more resources away from health care in order to find reasons to cancel coverage for those who already have insurance, generally just when they need it the most:

Insurance Horror Stories, by Paul Krugman, Sick System Commentary, NY Times: “When Steve and Leslie Shaeffer’s daughter, Selah, was diagnosed at age 4 with a potentially fatal tumor in her jaw, they figured their health insurance would cover the bulk of her treatment costs.” But “shortly after Selah’s medical bills hit $20,000, Blue Cross stopped covering them and eventually canceled her coverage retroactively.”

So begins a recent report in The Los Angeles Times ... which offers a series of similar horror stories and suggests that these stories represent a growing trend: more and more health insurers are finding ways to yank your insurance when you get sick.

This trend helps explain something that has been puzzling me: why is the health insurance industry growing rapidly, even as it covers fewer Americans?

Between 2000 and 2005, the number of Americans with private health insurance coverage fell by 1 percent. But over the same period, employment at health insurance companies rose a remarkable 32 percent. What are all those extra employees doing?

Now we know at least part of the answer: they’re working harder than ever at identifying people who really need medical care, and ensuring that they don’t get it. ... Welcome to the ugly world of American health care economics. ...

Because everyone faces some risk of incurring huge medical costs, only the superrich can afford to be without health insurance. Yet private insurers try to refuse coverage to those most likely to need it, and deny payment whenever they can get away with it.

The point isn’t that they’re evil or greedy (although you do wonder how the people who cut off the Schaeffers can look themselves in the mirror). The fact is that cruelty and injustice are the inevitable result of the current rules of the game. Blue Shield of California is a nonprofit insurance provider, yet as a spokesman put it, if his organization doesn’t follow the for-profit practice of selectively covering only the healthiest people, “we will end up with all the high-risk people.”

Now, before you panic about the state of your own coverage, ... the horror stories in The Los Angeles Times article all involve individual insurance; if your coverage comes via your employer, you’re reasonably secure against sudden cancellation.

But employment-based insurance is in rapid decline, as ... more and more companies adopt Wal-Mart-style minimal-benefit policies. That’s why many people are turning to individual insurance — only to find out, in some cases, that they didn’t get what they thought they paid for.

And here’s the thing: it’s all unnecessary.

Every other wealthy nation manages to provide almost all its citizens with guaranteed health insurance, while spending less on health care than we do. And there’s no mystery why: we’re paying the price for pointless, destructive reliance on private insurers. Medicare, which is a universal health insurance program for older Americans, spends less than 2 cents of every dollar on administrative costs, leaving 98 cents to pay for medical care. By contrast, private insurance companies spend only around 80 cents of each dollar in premiums on medical care; much of the remaining 20 cents is spent denying insurance to those who need it.

If we had a universal system — Medicare for everyone — there would be no more horror stories like those reported by The Los Angeles Times. And we’d almost certainly spend less on health care than we do now.


I didn't make these up,these are reports from your country not mine. :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
What most folks out there won't admit- is that GW and his neocons have led us much closer to "facism" than we could ever be to socialism with a nationalized Health Care system or childrens health care...But they seem to not worry about that......
 
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