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Health Insurance Hearing

A

Anonymous

Guest
Since Health Care Insurance Reform is such an issue now- last night I watched the House hearings on Health Insurance Companies- and their practices....If anyone gets a chance to watch a replay on C-SPAN I advise you do so...

Rep Stupak (D) Michigan always runs a great hearing-- and they had several people/cases where people had insurance with one of these Blue Shield/Blue Cross's or other Health insurances that are provided by one of the major 3-4 big insurance companies in the country (who are then affiliated with another parent company- complicated as hell)--and then when they got a major illness,- breast cancer, hodgekins disease, etc.- the companies went back thru their application and claimed they found information they hadn't provided and dropped their insurance....In the case of one lady it was 3 days before a double masectomy-- another was when a fellow had only a 15 day window to begin expensive blood marrow transplants...
Congressman Bartos (R) Texas had helped one of the witness's get a review of her claim- and reinstated so she could get the masectomy she needed-- but by the time he was able to do that, the cancer had spread to her lymph nodes and she is now taking chemo...

The Congressmen found that these companies list between 2,000 and 4,000 small print reasons they'll cancel your insurance- and thats whats been happening whenever they see a major claim coming in...
Some - like those testifying, fight it--but as the consumer advocate reported- many don't know how to and just go off and die...Thousands and thousands are dropped every year that way when they file a major claim....

And that once you are dropped by one company- you can never get individual insurance again...

They really chewed into the insurance CEO's when they found in the records one company had rescinded 4500 policies when claims were filed- but was forced by the state of California to reinstate them- and fined $25 million in California alone in the last couple of years...As Stupak noted- if they've done this to 4500 people in California alone (a state with strong insurance protection laws) how many have they done this to around the country :???:
And especially when they found that companies were paying their agents bonus's and rewarding them when they could dig up something to rescind the policy after someone had filed an expensive claim....

Comically altho they claim their forms are simple and easy for all to fill out- when questioned by Stupak-- the CEO's couldn't answer many of the questions that were on it .... :shock:

Congressman Dean (R) SC called it Fraud...Said that when a contract is written, they should be forced to honor it...That insurance companies should check out an applicants info before issuing the policy- and once issued should be forced to stand by it...He said these companies, in their greed, are forcing the government to get into their business or regulate their business...He really hit them on the ads they put out "come join our family"- but then the minute you get sick and need them they go digging for a way to kick you out on the street....

When the insurance companies could come up with no real answers Congressman Burgess (R) Texas- who is a Doctor, told them that he does not support a public insurance plan being promoted by the Administration-nor does he support the government making it mandatory that everyone have insurance (which the insurance companies want ) but that if the insurance industry can not come up with some answers to this problem- there will need to be a public plan as an alternative for all these that they let drop thru the loopholes and then won't insure- and government will write/enforce some strict regulations on these private companies....
 

Tex

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Since Health Care Insurance Reform is such an issue now- last night I watched the House hearings on Health Insurance Companies- and their practices....If anyone gets a chance to watch a replay on C-SPAN I advise you do so...

Rep Stupak (D) Michigan always runs a great hearing-- and they had several people/cases where people had insurance with one of these Blue Shield/Blue Cross's or other Health insurances that are provided by one of the major 3-4 big insurance companies in the country (who are then affiliated with another parent company- complicated as hell)--and then when they got a major illness,- breast cancer, hodgekins disease, etc.- the companies went back thru their application and claimed they found information they hadn't provided and dropped their insurance....In the case of one lady it was 3 days before a double masectomy-- another was when a fellow had only a 15 day window to begin expensive blood marrow transplants...
Congressman Bartos (R) Texas had helped one of the witness's get a review of her claim- and reinstated so she could get the masectomy she needed-- but by the time he was able to do that, the cancer had spread to her lymph nodes and she is now taking chemo...

The Congressmen found that these companies list between 2,000 and 4,000 small print reasons they'll cancel your insurance- and thats whats been happening whenever they see a major claim coming in...
Some - like those testifying, fight it--but as the consumer advocate reported- many don't know how to and just go off and die...Thousands and thousands are dropped every year that way when they file a major claim....

And that once you are dropped by one company- you can never get individual insurance again...

They really chewed into the insurance CEO's when they found in the records one company had rescinded 4500 policies when claims were filed- but was forced by the state of California to reinstate them- and fined $25 million in California alone in the last couple of years...As Stupak noted- if they've done this to 4500 people in California alone (a state with strong insurance protection laws) how many have they done this to around the country :???:
And especially when they found that companies were paying their agents bonus's and rewarding them when they could dig up something to rescind the policy after someone had filed an expensive claim....

Comically altho they claim their forms are simple and easy for all to fill out- when questioned by Stupak-- the CEO's couldn't answer many of the questions that were on it .... :shock:

Congressman Dean (R) SC called it Fraud...Said that when a contract is written, they should be forced to honor it...That insurance companies should check out an applicants info before issuing the policy- and once issued should be forced to stand by it...He said these companies, in their greed, are forcing the government to get into their business or regulate their business...He really hit them on the ads they put out "come join our family"- but then the minute you get sick and need them they go digging for a way to kick you out on the street....

When the insurance companies could come up with no real answers Congressman Burgess (R) Texas- who is a Doctor, told them that he does not support a public insurance plan being promoted by the Administration-nor does he support the government making it mandatory that everyone have insurance (which the insurance companies want ) but that if the insurance industry can not come up with some answers to this problem- there will need to be a public plan as an alternative for all these that they let drop thru the loopholes and then won't insure- and government will write/enforce some strict regulations on these private companies....

Burgess is a problem. I have seen him support businesses in committee hearings until Bart Stupak posed the questions so astutely as to point out the illogical positions of Burgess. Burgess would make a great insurance executive as he has their morals. I feel sorry for the people he is supposed to represent but he represents crooks pretty well.

Insurance companies need to all be required to cover everyone as they have to do with large group coverage. The moral hazard of rejecting claims based on claimed pre existing conditions has been too much for them to be able to handle. When your business does better by not covering than by covering a claim, you have taken out the incentives that make people want to buy insurance in the first place. The promise of coverage ends up being a loophole that ends up costing the most weak and benefiting the greedy. We can't do better on white collar crime because politicians like Burgess protect it too much.

Tex
 

TSR

Well-known member
Well I hope they don't come down too hard on these insurance companies they just might move overseas. :???: :) :)
 

Mike

Well-known member
Sounds like this was a "Capitalism" bashing instead of a Health Insurance hearing. :lol:

Why couldn't we have controlled monopolies insuring people, like the Gov't controlled utilities are run?

They are beholding to the Public Service Commissions to insure fair and equitable treatment for all customers.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
One question I've been asking myself. How much of the inflated costs etc are due to the Insurance companies and how much is actually passed on by the Health professionals and Hospitals, passed on through the insurance companies.

And I'm not saying that Mrs. Greg does not deserve a very fair wage/salary. but unfortunately she does need to be protected from the control and power of the Government.

Here in Canada, fees for procedures and treatment also need to be controlled, and also what treatments are offered under the one-payer system.

The reason I bring this up, is because I don't see it ending, just because you cut out the middle man (insurance providers)

Is the government any better at cutting out these abuses and wastage, that are past on to the taxpayer, or just better at distributing the tax burden after they control the industry?


The UCMC had 18 or 19 of these positions.
The Chicago Tribune reported that Mrs. Obama’s compensation at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she is a Vice President for Community Affairs, jumped from $121,910 in 2004, just before her husband was elected to the Senate, to $316,962 in 2005, just after he took office.

The UCMC, under Michelle’s supervision, granted a $650,000 contract to a local minority contractor for upgrading the center’s intranet.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
How does a person sue the US gov't when his Universal Health care policy refuses to pay a claim due to some "fine print"??? Who will police these pimps?? Give me one good reason to thing a government managed health care plan would be any better for anyone that medicare has been ?? For that matter show me any case where the gov't has intruded into private enterprise and run a business successfully??? Social Security, Medicare, War on Poverty, Post Office, .... add GM, Chrysler, banking and others to that. Why would anyone be optimistic about anything this president and congress proposes ???
 

Mike

Well-known member
TexasBred said:
How does a person sue the US gov't when his Universal Health care policy refuses to pay a claim due to some "fine print"??? Who will police these pimps?? Give me one good reason to thing a government managed health care plan would be any better for anyone that medicare has been ?? For that matter show me any case where the gov't has intruded into private enterprise and run a business successfully??? Social Security, Medicare, War on Poverty, Post Office, .... add GM, Chrysler, banking and others to that. Why would anyone be optimistic about anything this president and congress proposes ???

Good question that needs answering!!!

You do know that VA doctors are immune from responsibilty. Can't sue 'em. :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tex said:
Oldtimer said:
Since Health Care Insurance Reform is such an issue now- last night I watched the House hearings on Health Insurance Companies- and their practices....If anyone gets a chance to watch a replay on C-SPAN I advise you do so...

Rep Stupak (D) Michigan always runs a great hearing-- and they had several people/cases where people had insurance with one of these Blue Shield/Blue Cross's or other Health insurances that are provided by one of the major 3-4 big insurance companies in the country (who are then affiliated with another parent company- complicated as hell)--and then when they got a major illness,- breast cancer, hodgekins disease, etc.- the companies went back thru their application and claimed they found information they hadn't provided and dropped their insurance....In the case of one lady it was 3 days before a double masectomy-- another was when a fellow had only a 15 day window to begin expensive blood marrow transplants...
Congressman Bartos (R) Texas had helped one of the witness's get a review of her claim- and reinstated so she could get the masectomy she needed-- but by the time he was able to do that, the cancer had spread to her lymph nodes and she is now taking chemo...

The Congressmen found that these companies list between 2,000 and 4,000 small print reasons they'll cancel your insurance- and thats whats been happening whenever they see a major claim coming in...
Some - like those testifying, fight it--but as the consumer advocate reported- many don't know how to and just go off and die...Thousands and thousands are dropped every year that way when they file a major claim....

And that once you are dropped by one company- you can never get individual insurance again...

They really chewed into the insurance CEO's when they found in the records one company had rescinded 4500 policies when claims were filed- but was forced by the state of California to reinstate them- and fined $25 million in California alone in the last couple of years...As Stupak noted- if they've done this to 4500 people in California alone (a state with strong insurance protection laws) how many have they done this to around the country :???:
And especially when they found that companies were paying their agents bonus's and rewarding them when they could dig up something to rescind the policy after someone had filed an expensive claim....

Comically altho they claim their forms are simple and easy for all to fill out- when questioned by Stupak-- the CEO's couldn't answer many of the questions that were on it .... :shock:

Congressman Dean (R) SC called it Fraud...Said that when a contract is written, they should be forced to honor it...That insurance companies should check out an applicants info before issuing the policy- and once issued should be forced to stand by it...He said these companies, in their greed, are forcing the government to get into their business or regulate their business...He really hit them on the ads they put out "come join our family"- but then the minute you get sick and need them they go digging for a way to kick you out on the street....

When the insurance companies could come up with no real answers Congressman Burgess (R) Texas- who is a Doctor, told them that he does not support a public insurance plan being promoted by the Administration-nor does he support the government making it mandatory that everyone have insurance (which the insurance companies want ) but that if the insurance industry can not come up with some answers to this problem- there will need to be a public plan as an alternative for all these that they let drop thru the loopholes and then won't insure- and government will write/enforce some strict regulations on these private companies....

Burgess is a problem. I have seen him support businesses in committee hearings until Bart Stupak posed the questions so astutely as to point out the illogical positions of Burgess. Burgess would make a great insurance executive as he has their morals. I feel sorry for the people he is supposed to represent but he represents crooks pretty well.

Insurance companies need to all be required to cover everyone as they have to do with large group coverage. The moral hazard of rejecting claims based on claimed pre existing conditions has been too much for them to be able to handle. When your business does better by not covering than by covering a claim, you have taken out the incentives that make people want to buy insurance in the first place. The promise of coverage ends up being a loophole that ends up costing the most weak and benefiting the greedy. We can't do better on white collar crime because politicians like Burgess protect it too much.

Tex

Tex- I have to agree with you.....Burgess even told these insurance executives that he was behind them 100%- had worked for them before as an MD- and may work with them again in the future-- BUT- from the overwhelming complaints Congress has got- and the evidence of what they have been doing by issuing policies and then backing out of them when you need them- and are doing now to a substantial part of the public that are not under group plans- can no longer exist.....And while he supported them- unless they can come up with some ways to insure the uninsurable- have "real" 3rd party investigation of what they claim are "misrepresented" claims (under their 4000 reasons to deny a person payment on a claim-) when a major claim against them is filed by someone- simplification of the application (when the CEO's couldn't even answer the questions on the application :roll: which all agreed the computerized healthcare medical records database proposed in the health care reform bills could do)-- he can see nothing else that will/can help but a public plan- where no one will be rejected for previous medical history or kicked off if they have an expensive illness to compete with the private plans- that offers health insurance for all- with no restrictions on prior illness's or claims...

Stupak even gave Burgess a few more extra minutes- because the Fraud (imho) was so opvious that Burgess chewed arse good... But Bartos did too as he said Congress was being inundated with calls on all the stuff these insurance companies were doing....And he flat out called it FRAUD and breach of contract....

I agree with him- every American should have an affordable access to Health Care Insurance- and shouldn't have to be dieing because they don't have the money- or don't want to lose the family farm or business because of an illness....
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Accoding to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, 1 out of ten WORKING Americans currently covered by employer health care plans will lose their insurance under Ted Kennedy's plan. The plan is going to cost between 1 trillion and 1.6 trillion ADDITIONAL dollars. We can't afford to spend that many nickels and have working folks lose their existing health care plan.

Take a listen to what our Canadian posters are saying in this very forum about universal health care. Read what ALL of them have said and then form your own opinion.
 

Tex

Well-known member
backhoeboogie said:
Accoding to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, 1 out of ten WORKING Americans currently covered by employer health care plans will lose their insurance under Ted Kennedy's plan. The plan is going to cost between 1 trillion and 1.6 trillion ADDITIONAL dollars. We can't afford to spend that many nickels and have working folks lose their existing health care plan.

Take a listen to what our Canadian posters are saying in this very forum about universal health care. Read what ALL of them have said and then form your own opinion.

What we have now is BROKEN. Unless you are in a very large group where the group administrator has real power to bargain and prevent insurance from not paying claims, you are in trouble. States have largely failed in their regulation and so have the Feds. Insurance companies want to keep you if you are paying premiums and not using services but will actively work to get you out if you are making claims by manipulating the group, denying claims, etc.

The regulators do not have enough penalties to keep this from happening. It is nothing more than insurance fraud but this white collar crime seems to be ignored. Principals over principles again.

Insurance companies will also put you in a small group that can be manipulated if they can. The reason people get insurance and pay premiums is so the health risks are managed by the insurance company and spread over a large number of other people. Insurance companies will try to put you in a small group that can be whittled out so they can cut you out of their costs.

This industry is so broken that the Canadian System looks good to many.

I have seen these tactics up close.

Tex
 

Mike

Well-known member
Tex said:
backhoeboogie said:
Accoding to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, 1 out of ten WORKING Americans currently covered by employer health care plans will lose their insurance under Ted Kennedy's plan. The plan is going to cost between 1 trillion and 1.6 trillion ADDITIONAL dollars. We can't afford to spend that many nickels and have working folks lose their existing health care plan.

Take a listen to what our Canadian posters are saying in this very forum about universal health care. Read what ALL of them have said and then form your own opinion.

What we have now is BROKEN. Unless you are in a very large group where the group administrator has real power to bargain and prevent insurance from not paying claims, you are in trouble. States have largely failed in their regulation and so have the Feds. Insurance companies want to keep you if you are paying premiums and not using services but will actively work to get you out if you are making claims by manipulating the group, denying claims, etc.

The regulators do not have enough penalties to keep this from happening. It is nothing more than insurance fraud but this white collar crime seems to be ignored. Principals over principles again.

Insurance companies will also put you in a small group that can be manipulated if they can. The reason people get insurance and pay premiums is so the health risks are managed by the insurance company and spread over a large number of other people. Insurance companies will try to put you in a small group that can be whittled out so they can cut you out of their costs.

This industry is so broken that the Canadian System looks good to many.

I have seen these tactics up close.

Tex

You're just ANTI- ANY type of business aren't you? Why so much paranoia?

Many people are very much satisfied with their insurance companies and health care in general.
:roll:
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
One question I've been asking myself. How much of the inflated costs etc are due to the Insurance companies and how much is actually passed on by the Health professionals and Hospitals, passed on through the insurance companies.

And I'm not saying that Mrs. Greg does not deserve a very fair wage/salary. but unfortunately she does need to be protected from the control and power of the Government.

Here in Canada, fees for procedures and treatment also need to be controlled, and also what treatments are offered under the one-payer system.

The reason I bring this up, is because I don't see it ending, just because you cut out the middle man (insurance providers)

Is the government any better at cutting out these abuses and wastage, that are past on to the taxpayer, or just better at distributing the tax burden after they control the industry?


The UCMC had 18 or 19 of these positions.
The Chicago Tribune reported that Mrs. Obama’s compensation at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she is a Vice President for Community Affairs, jumped from $121,910 in 2004, just before her husband was elected to the Senate, to $316,962 in 2005, just after he took office.

The UCMC, under Michelle’s supervision, granted a $650,000 contract to a local minority contractor for upgrading the center’s intranet.
Hypo. .....are you sitting down? Cause I agree with you on the salarys healthcare providers are getting.Its getting to be over the top.I get VERY annoyed when our contracts come up and we get a survey on what we want in the lastest contract....most say more money....GRRRRR. Nope better working conditions....more time for care. Take part of my wage back and make sure there's ultrasound machines....MRI machines....provided in small areas.

I'm all for user fee's.Somehow,not sure how but that can be regulated without the people who "NEED' to see a Dr. can get into see a Dr. You DON"T have to see a Dr. for a cold!!! Or cause you have a hangnail....the list goes on and on....

Take part of all healthcare providers wages and open MORE long term beds.....HELP the young people that want to get into health care afford their schooling...the cost of that tripled in the last five yrs...grrrr

I've NEVER said our heath care is perfect but I do think we've got mostly great providers,and I most certainly am not talking myself....I'm talking great women and men I work with,but its too bad the money always seems to be a drawing point....
 

TSR

Well-known member
Tex said:
backhoeboogie said:
Accoding to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, 1 out of ten WORKING Americans currently covered by employer health care plans will lose their insurance under Ted Kennedy's plan. The plan is going to cost between 1 trillion and 1.6 trillion ADDITIONAL dollars. We can't afford to spend that many nickels and have working folks lose their existing health care plan.

Take a listen to what our Canadian posters are saying in this very forum about universal health care. Read what ALL of them have said and then form your own opinion.

What we have now is BROKEN. Unless you are in a very large group where the group administrator has real power to bargain and prevent insurance from not paying claims, you are in trouble. States have largely failed in their regulation and so have the Feds. Insurance companies want to keep you if you are paying premiums and not using services but will actively work to get you out if you are making claims by manipulating the group, denying claims, etc.

The regulators do not have enough penalties to keep this from happening. It is nothing more than insurance fraud but this white collar crime seems to be ignored. Principals over principles again.

Insurance companies will also put you in a small group that can be manipulated if they can. The reason people get insurance and pay premiums is so the health risks are managed by the insurance company and spread over a large number of other people. Insurance companies will try to put you in a small group that can be whittled out so they can cut you out of their costs.

This industry is so broken that the Canadian System looks good to many.

I have seen these tactics up close.

Tex

I have experienced this "grouping" that you speak of Tex. It always turns out iin the insurance company's favor in the form of higher premiums or reduced benefits or both. At least that has been my experience. :(
 

Tex

Well-known member
Mike said:
Tex said:
backhoeboogie said:
Accoding to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, 1 out of ten WORKING Americans currently covered by employer health care plans will lose their insurance under Ted Kennedy's plan. The plan is going to cost between 1 trillion and 1.6 trillion ADDITIONAL dollars. We can't afford to spend that many nickels and have working folks lose their existing health care plan.

Take a listen to what our Canadian posters are saying in this very forum about universal health care. Read what ALL of them have said and then form your own opinion.

What we have now is BROKEN. Unless you are in a very large group where the group administrator has real power to bargain and prevent insurance from not paying claims, you are in trouble. States have largely failed in their regulation and so have the Feds. Insurance companies want to keep you if you are paying premiums and not using services but will actively work to get you out if you are making claims by manipulating the group, denying claims, etc.

The regulators do not have enough penalties to keep this from happening. It is nothing more than insurance fraud but this white collar crime seems to be ignored. Principals over principles again.

Insurance companies will also put you in a small group that can be manipulated if they can. The reason people get insurance and pay premiums is so the health risks are managed by the insurance company and spread over a large number of other people. Insurance companies will try to put you in a small group that can be whittled out so they can cut you out of their costs.

This industry is so broken that the Canadian System looks good to many.

I have seen these tactics up close.

Tex

You're just ANTI- ANY type of business aren't you? Why so much paranoia?

Many people are very much satisfied with their insurance companies and health care in general.
:roll:

No, Mike, I am not against any and every type of business. I am against fraudulent businesses and you should be too.

If insurance companies are there to spread the risks of health costs, they should do that, not play games that avoid doing their job just so they can be a "business" by your definition. We need real businesses that provide real value, not businesses that succeed and beat other businesses through fraud. You seem to like putting all "business" together. I do not. I guess I am a little more discerning than you happen to be.

As a matter of fact, I am pretty happy with my insurance but my insurance is in a very large group. I have seen way too many small businesses that did not have that protection and were screwed by the methods I mentioned above. I think small businesses need to have protections when they pay for it with an insurance company as I have but the fact is they don't. I have seen it and so have thousands of others who have had to make claims on the promises the insurance companies sell.

Perhaps you would be a little more accurate if you said I was in favor of businesses who provide real value, not businesses who profit by lying about the services they provide and cheating people.

I don't see how someone can confuse the two different "businesses" just to claim they are for business, which is what you seem to be doing.

Perhaps you would like to adjust your statement.



Tex
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Tex I was working for Stone & Webster Engineering Corp back in the 80's. They are based out of Boston. Massachusettes passed some type of legislation requiring insurance companies to fund a host of special medication for Aids patients (in Massachusettes). Furthermore they could not question anyone's lifestyle when they applied for insurance. My premiums tripled the month that legislation was passed.
 

Tex

Well-known member
backhoeboogie said:
Tex I was working for Stone & Webster Engineering Corp back in the 80's. They are based out of Boston. Massachusettes passed some type of legislation requiring insurance companies to fund a host of special medication for Aids patients (in Massachusettes). Furthermore they could not question anyone's lifestyle when they applied for insurance. My premiums tripled the month that legislation was passed.

I agree that insurance needs to have incentives for good behavior. Not all risks need to be given to the group like those of known bad behavior. If someone wants to engage in bad behavior, let them pay more for their premium, just like they do when they get life insurance. That kind of incentive should never excuse insurance companies from going back on the promises that earned them premiums. In many life insurance policies, if it is found out that you smoke, the amount of insurance you get paid upon death reverts to those actuarial tables for smokers in many instances.

I don't want to ask people about their lifestyle behaviors for all coverage. Education is an important part of any benefit that a change of action may induce. Often it is the cheapest insurance anyone can get.

Tex
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
We went through a huge era of deregulation. Air lines and power companies etc. Now it seems we have turned the corner and are headed for everything being regulated and that seems to be the wrong direction in my opinion.

Maybe I am wrong but it does not seem right to saddle me with $600 a month medication for a guy who is gay and caught Aids. Nor do I want to pay for some one who caught the disease through using dirty needles. Universal health care is going to do just that. Make me pay for those life style choices.
 

Tex

Well-known member
backhoeboogie said:
We went through a huge era of deregulation. Air lines and power companies etc. Now it seems we have turned the corner and are headed for everything being regulated and that seems to be the wrong direction in my opinion.

Maybe I am wrong but it does not seem right to saddle me with $600 a month medication for a guy who is gay and caught Aids. Nor do I want to pay for some one who caught the disease through using dirty needles. Universal health care is going to do just that. Make me pay for those life style choices.

Unfortunately, you are paying for those people right now.

Tex
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Mike said:
Tex said:
backhoeboogie said:
Accoding to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, 1 out of ten WORKING Americans currently covered by employer health care plans will lose their insurance under Ted Kennedy's plan. The plan is going to cost between 1 trillion and 1.6 trillion ADDITIONAL dollars. We can't afford to spend that many nickels and have working folks lose their existing health care plan.

Take a listen to what our Canadian posters are saying in this very forum about universal health care. Read what ALL of them have said and then form your own opinion.

What we have now is BROKEN. Unless you are in a very large group where the group administrator has real power to bargain and prevent insurance from not paying claims, you are in trouble. States have largely failed in their regulation and so have the Feds. Insurance companies want to keep you if you are paying premiums and not using services but will actively work to get you out if you are making claims by manipulating the group, denying claims, etc.

The regulators do not have enough penalties to keep this from happening. It is nothing more than insurance fraud but this white collar crime seems to be ignored. Principals over principles again.

Insurance companies will also put you in a small group that can be manipulated if they can. The reason people get insurance and pay premiums is so the health risks are managed by the insurance company and spread over a large number of other people. Insurance companies will try to put you in a small group that can be whittled out so they can cut you out of their costs.

This industry is so broken that the Canadian System looks good to many.

I have seen these tactics up close.

Tex

You're just ANTI- ANY type of business aren't you? Why so much paranoia?

Many people are very much satisfied with their insurance companies and health care in general.
:roll:

I agree! I been on both ends, I have not paid for insurance and paid in the end. Now work and have it, and I am plenty happy!

Nothing will ever be perfect and as long as people try to fix everything that is not perfect most usually they will just make it worse!
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
According to ABC, the former Democratic Senate Majority leader had this to say:

"While I feel very strongly that consumers should have the choice of a national, Medicare-like plan, my colleagues do not. . . But we were concerned that the ongoing health reform debate is beginning to show signs of fracture on the public plan issue, so in order to advance the process of developing bipartisan legislation and to move it forward, it's time to find consensus here," Daschle said.

"We've come too far and gained too much momentum for our efforts to fail over disagreements on one single issue," he said.

This is significant news not merely as a result of his relationship to Obama, but because Daschle is somebody who is recognized for his network on Capitol Hill, his ability to shepard legislation through Congress and strike compromises. If he is coming out and saying this publicly, it's a pretty good indication that Democrats simply do not have the votes to pass legislation that would include a government plan.
 
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