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Hey 0T

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Why stop with central and south america? Why not just take in every poor kid in the world?

Central and south america after all are rich and safe compared to many places.

Seriously, you support this president. What should the cutoff be and who should decide it?

World has 7 billon people.... how many dependents do you think we should take on and how do you arrive at that answer?
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Anonymous

Guest
That is part of the irony/hypocrisy playing out in this situation.... For 50 years we as a country have been telling every country in the world that the civilized response is for them to take in refugees from neighboring or near countries when those countries were in times of war, strife, poverty and/or starvation... AND now we have these type folks/kids funneling into our country seeking refugee status- and according to the UN probably qualifying for such...

What do we do :???: Put up or shut up- Do we put our money where our mouth has been to all the other countries of the world - or do we become the HYPOCRITES AND NIMBY's we proven over the years we are on so many issues... :???:


I doubt it if it will happen-- but maybe we should/could learn from this and start keeping our noses out of every other countries business- and then it may not be so apt to turn around and bite us in the arse!


U.N. Officials Seek Refugee Label For Kids Coming Into America Alone


By Esther Yu-Hsi Lee July 8, 2014 at 1:56 pm Updated: July 8, 2014 at 2:04 pm

President Obama once declared children who illegally enter the United States a “humanitarian crisis,” but officials with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) hope that the United States and Mexico will soon view these kids as refugees. The designation could potentially pressure the two countries to consider granting asylum to many of the 52,000 Central American children who have fled their countries due to criminal violence and grinding poverty.

UNHCR officials hope to “discuss updating a 30-year-old declaration regarding the obligations nations have to aid refugees” on Thursday in Nicaragua. The Associated Press stated that “while such a resolution would lack any legal weight in the United States,” officials believe “the U.S. and Mexico should recognize that this is a refugee situation, which implies that they shouldn’t be automatically sent to their home countries but rather receive international protection.”

According to the 1951 United Nations Refugee Convention which the United States follows, refugees are people who have a well-founded fear of being persecuted based on race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion. The U.S. determines whether migrants are refugees in deciding whether to deport them back or grant asylum. And UNHCR is hoping to affect U.S. immigration officials’ decision-making with its own refugee definition.

UNHCR official Leslie Velez argued last month that “unaccompanied children and families who fear for their lives and freedoms must not be forcibly returned without access to proper asylum procedures” because the core of refugee protection “is the prohibition of returning a refugee to persecution.” Velez suggested that “asylum-seekers should be identified, screened, and given full and meaningful access to asylum.”

Several recent surveys document the scope of deteriorating security and dire economic conditions in Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala — the three countries that make up Central America’s Northern Triangle. An UNHCR report found that of 404 Central American children interviewed, a majority might qualify for international protection needs since their home countries could no longer protect them. Honduras is the murder capital of the world, Guatemalan girls are especially prone to a culture desensitized by rape, and homicide victims in El Salvador are predominantly male teens.

A new study released Monday may provide additional support that children are fleeing their home countries to simply survive. That report found that violence is the primary factor that is driving children to flee Central America, notably that there are positive correlations between increasing violence and greater numbers of kids crossing the border alone. The study also found that there was a murder rate of 54 per 100,000 people in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras in 2012.

However, granting widespread asylum claims would be at odds with White House rhetoric thus far. On Monday, the White House reiterated its message that children will be put into deportation proceedings and said that a large majority of children will not be considered for asylum. On Tuesday, the Obama administration asked Congress to approve for $3.7 billion — up from the previously requested $2 billion — in emergency funds so that more immigration judges can process cases as quickly as possible and “ensur[e] the protection of asylum seekers and refugees while enabling the prompt removal of individuals who do not qualify for asylum or other forms of relief from removal.”
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
What the Fatman is conveniently forgetting is the other countries who took in refugees and such were receiving boocoo foreign aid from the USA, so in a roundabout way, we were paying for them all along.

Now we are asking for the existing laws to be upheld here in this country and Fatso has the balls to refer to us as hypocrites and NIMBY's.

For someone who imagines himself a pillar of law & order and a staunch defender of the Constitution, he sure seems to be promoting breaking the law and anarchy. Just like his boy.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
What the Fatman is conveniently forgetting is the other countries who took in refugees and such were receiving boocoo foreign aid from the USA, so in a roundabout way, we were paying for them all along.

Now we are asking for the existing laws to be upheld here in this country and Fatso has the balls to refer to us as hypocrites and NIMBY's.

For someone who imagines himself a pillar of law & order and a staunch defender of the Constitution, he sure seems to be promoting breaking the law and anarchy. Just like his boy.

So would you give me the case # on the court ruling regarding these kids and the law surrounding them... What ruling overturns the Attorney Generals opinion/actions ... I haven't been able to find one...

So far- I only see interpretations of the law - and that is mostly split down political and racial lines.... Currently the highest legal source for an interpretation in the land is the US Attorney General- so his interpretation is law until overturned...

The only court action I could find is that of the ACLU who isn't even filing on the question of the law (which they seem to see quite cut and dried) but on the question if the government has to furnish each an attorney (which it appears the US Attorney General agrees on)...

The American Civil Liberties Union, American Immigration Council, Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, Public Counsel, and the law firm K&L Gates LLP filed the lawsuit on behalf of eight such children, each of whom facing circumstances that could possibly prevent their deportation.

The lawsuit cites several parts of immigration law that could allow these eight children to stay, including asylum claims, certain visa statuses, and other designations outlined in law.

For example, three of the children fled El Salvador due to extreme gang violence, which included witnessing the murder of their father.

But I've seen no ruling yet...

And that doesn't even touch on the issue of if the UN declare these folks "humanitarian refugees"...
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
As far as the UN goes, and whatever they imagine...phuck them!

Again...what part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? These kids are here illegally.

You'd be singing a different tune if several hundred of them showed up on your doorstep.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
As far as the UN goes, and whatever they imagine...phuck them!

Again...what part of ILLEGAL don't you understand? These kids are here illegally.

You'd be singing a different tune if several hundred of them showed up on your doorstep.

And what don't you understand-- there is a law (signed by GW Bush) that says that once they are here they must be humanely treated, and held until they can have a hearing before an Immigration Judge in an Immigration Court to decide whether they can safely be returned to their home country...

You may not like it- but that is the law as interpreted by the Homeland Security Secretary (which in the law says has that power) and the US Attorney General--- and stands until overturned by a Federal Court of Law...

Just because you don't like a law- or disagree with it doesn't make it illegal... That's the part of Rightwingernutland that makes me laugh- and is so hypocritical- when they yip and yipe about the laws and the Constitution- but then don't want to follow either if its one they disagree with....

What you should be screaming at is your Senators and Congressman to quickly pass a law repealing the William Wilberforce Trafficking Act- and/or a law authorizing the hiring of several more Judges and staff to quickly handle these cases that already are here under the current law (since they could not be deported on an "ex post facto" law) ...

I don't know why you're so worried about where to put these kids- just put them in these 600-1000 "detention camps" rightwingernut tin foil wearers have been claiming Bush/Obama built all over the country- and supplied with billions of rounds of ammo .... EH ? :wink: :???: :p :lol: :lol:
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
You showed up. :shock:

I'll need to wait to fully reply until Im back at the house and have my computer, but I'll start with this...

OT, what is the cause of the violence in Honduras?
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
I get on here too much, and I don't recall anybody here talking about hundreds of detention centers. But I could have missed it...wouldn't be the first time.

Sheriff Joe would know how to treat them humanely. Let em get in front of a judge and then humanely ship them home.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
iwannabeacowboy said:
You showed up. :shock:

I'll need to wait to fully reply until Im back at the house and have my computer, but I'll start with this...

OT, what is the cause of the violence in Honduras?

Numerous things- first off the country hasn't had a stable government for any period of time ever- going back to when we were sending in troops in the Banana Wars (which General Smedley Butler talked of):

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Thru the Iran Contra affair time with the Sandanista's and Contra's , and the gangs-- and the #1 issue- the FAILED US WAR ON DRUGS.... The US has stuck our nose into that area for over a 100 years- and look what we ended up with...


In Honduras, rival gangs keep a death grip on San Pedro Sula

Honduras violence

December 17, 2013, 3:00 AM



SAN PEDRO SULA, Honduras — We are driving into the meanest neighborhood in the murder capital of the hemisphere, if not the world..

"Roll down your windows," the driver says.

"Down??"

Edgardo seems to think it best that people see who we are as we drive in, that we are clearly not a rival gang.

This is the Chamelecon barrio of San Pedro Sula, part of a network of turfs on the city's south side that are the realm of vicious gangs.

Each neighborhood has a code of survival. People from one do not venture into the other. The distance can be a matter of a few blocks. This means workers can't get to their jobs and families have had to stop sending their kids to certain schools. Threatened households have packed up and left, leaving behind full closets, children's toys — and lifeless streets.

The gangs charge what residents call a war tax, extorted from homes and businesses, down to the smallest fruit vendor. You don't pay, you get out. And if you don't go, you get killed.

In the section of Chamelecon where nurse Suyapa Bonilla runs a private clinic to help gangsters remove tattoos, the Mara Salvatrucha is in charge. As long as residents of the neighborhood respect the code, the gang will respect the residents, she says.

When residents drive home at night, they flash their headlights several times to signal they belong there. Or, during daylight, they roll down their car windows. They learn to sleep on the floor of their homes during gun battles. And they know better than to call the police.


Any problems are handled by gang delegates. A woman whose husband has beaten her calls someone who relays the problem to the gang, who sends someone to speak to the man. The rare home robbery — rare unless sanctioned by the gang — is similarly reported to the young men who hold sway in the neighborhood. What exactly they do with the culprit is unclear.

"Sure, they are violent, but they respect the barrio where they live," Bonilla said. "It is their law. It makes the skin crawl."

***

Neighborhoods like Chamelecon have become synonymous with lawlessness and social upheaval in one of the most depressed and depressing regions of this most depressed and depressing country.

On average, 20 people a day are slain in Honduras, which has fewer people than Los Angeles County. San Pedro Sula, in the north, has the country's highest homicide rate; in a study of 50 cities worldwide, it registered as the deadliest. That has led many to describe San Pedro Sula as the murder capital of the world.

The homicide rate is stoked by the rivalry of the brutal street gangs, mostly descendants of gangs formed in Los Angeles and deported to Central America in the 1990s. Mara Salvatrucha — MS. The 18th Street gang. Their ranks are fed by the economic disaster that is Honduras and emboldened more recently by alliances with Mexican drug traffickers moving cocaine through the country.

The mayhem is compounded by political killings, mostly of leftist activists and those demanding land rights in this throwback semi-feudal country, and vigilante slayings by some police units. It's made even worse by the inability or unwillingness of authorities to investigate crime in a nation where almost every family has had a relative killed, kidnapped or attacked.

On one day late last month, on a single page of the local tabloid newspaper, the following was reported: 2-month-old baby killed in attempted assassination of mayor running for reelection; man killed at gas station; man looking for wife at morgue after her kidnapping by gangsters; body washes up on lake shore.


In San Pedro Sula, people are mowed down on soccer fields, in shoe factories and at the airport. In Chamelecon a few weeks ago, three women selling food were shot to death in the streets; six members of one family were slain at a kindergarten.

Honduras is one of Latin America's poorest nations. In the northern region around San Pedro Sula in particular, the once-thriving banana industry never fully recovered from hurricane devastation more than a decade ago, and manufacturing has all but dried up.

And in the years since a 2009 military coup sent Honduras into a tailspin, unemployment and underemployment rates have doubled while the number of people living in extreme poverty has skyrocketed.


http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-c1-honduras-violence-20131217-m-story.html#page=1
 

Mike

Well-known member
TexasBred said:
Damn OT you make Central America sound damn near as bad as Chicago.
Or Baltimore, or St. Louis, or Atlanta, or Detroit, or Miami, or New Orleans, etc. etc. etc. :wink:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
the bill that BUSH signed was written by Feinstein and introduced by JOE BIDIN to the floor supposedly was to curb trafficking oldtimer but the wording was changed right before BUSH signed it to read as it is currently written by the liberal party and shoved down BUSHs throat
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
:lol: I see that you went with a America is evil approach- the entire world's problems are our fault. I would expect nothing less from an Obama disciple.

Amazing, government is evil so you want to double down on big and over bearing government. Logical- no. Quite the contrary.


Why only go back a hundred years to blame the US? Why not blame the Europeans settling the area. Why not go all the way back to the King and Queen of Spain sending Columbus on his voyage? He started this entire mess. I think they were the root cause of all this. :roll:

But in summation, corporatism caused this, so you answer is more corporatism. Bravo! :lol: :lol:


Let's examine the gem of an answer in part B of your response. It is due to the gangs. Gangs are the main threat to life and liberty in central America. I'm glad you admit that. So looking at your answer to this, and using the source you, yourself brought to this discussion. (It is hard to quote while using my phone, so pardon the time for me to respond)


officials with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) hope that the United States and Mexico will soon view these kids as refugees. The designation could potentially pressure the two countries to consider granting asylum to many of the 52,000 Central American children who have fled their countries due to criminal violence and grinding poverty.

so you want to send kids to the US (I'll cover this part in a minute) and Mexico (this is the good part) to get away from gangs from MEXICO-
Honduras has suffered a wave of violence in recent years, as Mexican drug cartels have expanded into the country, enlisting local street gangs and using the country's often lawless Caribbean coastline as a pit stop for U.S.-bound cocaine from South America.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/17/us-honduras-homicides-idUSBREA1G1E520140217

You're a regular Einstein along with the UN I swear. By the way, you did see the thread about 20 rockets in a UN school in gaza right? I mean, bureaucracy beyond normal bureaucracy- tripling or quadrupling down on the wrong answer- has to be the right answer, right?

Okay, so your answer is to send (your UN piece) and promote travel through Mexico (the home office of all these evil gangs) so that they can escape all these evil gangs? I mean that is it in a nutshell right? And you want us to believe that these kids are willing and desiring to go through Mexico to do this because they are scared of the gangs from Mexico?

I bet the tortured Iraqi's had a trail right through Abu Ghraib, and the persecuted Nigerian Christians exited through the mooselem strong holds, and the Israelite's probably plan to escape to Gaza for protection against Hamas. :roll:


The US is not the only country in the America's they can flea to. Why are they not fleeing to other countries? Why are some traveling through worse countries than their home state to get here- including Mexico?

If it is so horrible, why is it only a child crisis? Why not adults- you still haven't taken a shot at that?

How many miles is a poor 6 year old, 10 year old, or even 15 year old really going to transverse on their own? BS that they are doing this on their own. You may be ignorant, but you can't be that ignorant.

Why in every other crisis of the world, the media's attention is desired and people are standing on the hill tops, waving flags trying to get someone to notice. Why is THIS the only multinational crisis that not only are they not beckoning the media, they have absolutely closed off any access to the supposed victims? The more I think about this, I can't believe you can be SO blind. Amazing. Willful and Amazing.

So back to the US and all these kids that can't speak English. Wonder what they are going to do? In all your and the democrats brilliance of opening the borders and welcoming all in on a hush hush basis. How in the hell do you know that these are not the kids doing the killing in Central America? What is the age of the bangers in the US- they're dead by 19 so you better guess under that. So we now have non english speaking kids used to the gang life introduced to America and dumped on the streets where kids without a set are going to be punked. Sounds like a perfect set up for recruiting any that aren't already banging.

And about America- why are they being dumped here? Why not Canada? America has 4 of the 50 worst cities in the world- why would it be any better here?

Call BS on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

How many in the top 50 will make you happy?

Mexico has 9 of the top 50 and you want to send he kids there or through there because it is safer?

You better start thinking about all the dilution of free stuff.

It's obvious what lil joe is thinking... but he'll be disappointed also when he finds out that all those kids are not destined for sweat shops to make his pink chaps.
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
p.s. If you really wanted to do something, you would see that the vigilantes in those areas were armed like the ones in Mexico.

They had the biggest impact on gang violence than anything attempted- of course that limits corrupt government and we know you wouldn't back that.

Did you also see the statistics on Chicago murder rate the first quarter?

In July of 2013, Illinois became the last state in the union to enact a concealed carry law. In January of this year, the state began accepting applications for permits. This week, Chicago police announced that the city’s first quarter murder rate was the lowest since 1958.

Via ABC-affiliate Eye Witness News in the Windy City:

The first three months of the year saw 6 fewer murders than the same time frame in 2013–a 9 percent drop–and 55 fewer murders than 2012, according to a statement from Chicago Police.
There were 90 fewer shootings and 119 fewer shooting victims, drops of 26 and 29 percent respectively, according to police statistics.
Compared to the first quarter of 2012, there have been 222 fewer shootings and 292 fewer shooting victims. Overall crime is down 25 percent from last year, and police said more than 1,300 illegal guns were recovered in the last three months.

Coincidence? Hard to say. And too early to tell. Although, I doubt that the anti-gun crowd is celebrating the good news.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
July 17, 2014, 12:23 pm
Boehner casts doubt on border bill

By Cristina Marcos


Speaker John Boehner (R-Oho) on Thursday cast doubt on whether the House will be able to pass emergency funding legislation for the border before the August recess.

With the parties increasingly divided over changes to immigration policy, Boehner said he’s not sure that the two sides will be able to reach an agreement.


"I would certainly hope so," he said. "I don't have as much optimism as I'd like to have."

Boehner said Democrats have made passing a bill more difficult by opposing changes to a 2008 trafficking law so that child immigrants from Central America can be deported faster.

"There have been some comments that have been made by our colleagues across the aisle that are going to make this much more difficult to deal with," Boehner said in reference to the 2008 law.

The Speaker would likely need support from some Democrats in order to pass a bill, as some in the Republican conference are likely to oppose a package that doesn’t do more to secure the border..

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/212560-boehner-casts-doubt-on-border-bill#ixzz37mXZ7zbM
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

I don't know what everyone is getting so excited about-- this must not be a very important issue as Boehner says the House is going on vacation- rather than working on legislation to solve the problem...

And if you look at the House calendar- this little vacation goes from August 1 to September 8th (5 1/2 weeks)- then they come back for 10 days work in Sept. and 2 days work in October - and then take off from Oct 2 til November 12th (another 5 1/2 weeks) so they can go campaigning!! :roll:

My bet is that if the Congress can't figure out how to handle it legislatively in 3 1/2 months- Obama will thru executive action...
Dysfunctional Congress's that refuse to do their jobs continue to give the Executive branch more authority....
 

Mike

Well-known member
What problem? All Buckwheat's got to do is follow the law and send 'em back to where they came from and make a speech letting them know they ain't welcome.

But no.........he want's to give the whole world amnesty........ :roll:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I don't know what everyone is getting so excited about-- this must not be a very important issue as Boehner says the House is going on vacation- rather than working on legislation to solve the problem...


How many days a year does Texas legislature sit?

Why do you need new laws every day? Seems to me that the "Law of the land" would cover a lot, and the states should be able to cover the rest.

OT? Why do you think DC should control everything you do? Why should they have to be babysitting your bedroom 365 days a year?
 
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