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Hey ocm

Tam

Well-known member
ocm: I haven't seen anything that says the SD State Vet has seen the evidence.

By Kevin Woster, Rapid City Journal Feb 13 2007
The South Dakota state veterinarian said Wednesday that eight Canadian cattle condemned at a packing plant in Nebraska for being improperly sold to a Wessington Springs farmer apparently were shipped directly from Canada to the plant.


Dr. Sam Holland of Pierre said an ongoing investigation into the incident by the U.S. Department of Agriculture has convinced him that a mix-up at the Swift and Co. plant in Grand Island led officials there to mistakenly believe the cattle had come in with a load that belonged to Jan Vandyke of Wessington Springs.

The cattle were condemned, and Vandyke initially was denied payment for eight Canadian fat cattle believed to have come into the plant in a load of 43 from his farm. Vandyke eventually was paid, however. And further investigation by USDA indicated that the Canadian cattle were never in Vandyke's pasture, Holland said.

"You go two ways. Either there was a mix-up at the plant, or they came in with Vandyke's shipment," Holland said. "The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

The USDA requires live cattle coming from Canada for slaughter in the United States to be younger than 30 months old. They must be shipped in sealed trucks directly to slaughterhouses or to specific feedlots until they are slaughtered.

When the initial reports indicated that the Canadian cattle had come through a South Dakota market and unknowingly been fed and sold to Swift by Vandyke, critics of USDA's Canadian import policies said it showed the system was porous. But Holland said strong evidence shows that the system worked in this case, except for the mix-up at the plant.

Vandyke said in a news release by the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association last week that he didn't know there was a problem until Swift officials notified him that Canadian cattle had been found in his load. Vandyke said he had bought feeders at a South Dakota market.

Vandyke said he was later contacted by a USDA inspector who told him that the investigation showed that the Canadian cattle were mixed with his load at the plant and had never been on his farm. Vandyke continues to question that conclusion, however, saying that when he later saw ear tags taken from the Canadian cattle they were the same as some he had seen on cattle at his place.

Holland said he wouldn't dispute Vandyke's statements or beliefs.

"They showed him pictures of the tags, and he said he believes he saw those tags on some of his cattle in his feedlot," Holland said. "I surely don't fault the farmer-feeder. He sincerely believes he saw those tags in his lot. But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

Holland said the investigation is continuing, and that USDA officials are unlikely to discuss it. But he hopes they issue a public report when the investigation concludes.

"It appears the paperwork on those cattle is valid. The only question is, if that's the case, how did they get mixed up at the plant?" Holland said.

"And will we someday see an explanation? I think the farmer-feeder and the industry deserve that report."

Tell us again ocm how Dr Holland never saw the results of the ongoing USDA investigation. :wink:

BTW Van Dyke posted this
We never officially received anything from the USDA stating the findings of the investigation. The only statements we got from the USDA are the ones that were printed in the media. We are still waiting for the official findings and may never get them.


BUT according to this the USDA contacted Mr. Jan Van Dykes and told him of their findings so what is with telling us that the USDA never told them anything and they only knew what was in the media? Could the fact they have not recieved the official report be because this is an ONGOING INVESTIGATION. :?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam, if I were Van Dyke, I would want to see all the evidence that Swift used to base their opinion on for not paying him, not just a conclusion by investigators who may have an interest in not being objective.

It should take less than an afternoon to go through the paperwork and inspect it.

It is the least that Swift could do to ensure its customers that it truly was an honest mistake.

The time period it takes to investigate this matter reminds me of the Washington bse case. Doesn't it to you also?
 

ocm

Well-known member
~SH~'s reading comprehension problem is spreading. Reread the article. Holland never says he saw the records himself.
 

Tam

Well-known member
ocm said:
~SH~'s reading comprehension problem is spreading. Reread the article. Holland never says he saw the records himself.


You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
ocm said:
~SH~'s reading comprehension problem is spreading. Reread the article. Holland never says he saw the records himself.


You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Those records should be available to anyone. It is astounding that they have not been presented to the person who was harmed in this situation.

If Swift wants to use their poor record keeping as an excuse to not pay a producer, they should have to prove their record keeping is up to snuff to producers when they ask.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Tam said:
ocm said:
~SH~'s reading comprehension problem is spreading. Reread the article. Holland never says he saw the records himself.


You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Those records should be available to anyone. It is astounding that they have not been presented to the person who was harmed in this situation.

If Swift wants to use their poor record keeping as an excuse to not pay a producer, they should have to prove their record keeping is up to snuff to producers when they ask.

This coming from a guy that claims his phone is tapped and goes into hiding for a month and Can't reveal his "secret"Identity. Ha Ha
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Econ101 said:
Tam said:
You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Those records should be available to anyone. It is astounding that they have not been presented to the person who was harmed in this situation.

If Swift wants to use their poor record keeping as an excuse to not pay a producer, they should have to prove their record keeping is up to snuff to producers when they ask.

This coming from a guy that claims his phone is tapped and goes into hiding for a month and Can't reveal his "secret"Identity. Ha Ha

Hiding and secret identity? BMR, sometimes you really do make me laugh. I know you missed me but I didn't know you missed me that much.

Sorry, I put my family first over the holidays and didn't check in with Canada's KGB, the secret identity search club and the missing too long there must be something wrong club.

You really do crack me up. I know it must be lonely on the range for you to come up with all you put out. I'll try to help you out by coming up with a few more ideas for conspiracy club ideas in the future. Gotta keep your mind occupied with all the paranoia.
 

ocm

Well-known member
Tam said:
ocm said:
~SH~'s reading comprehension problem is spreading. Reread the article. Holland never says he saw the records himself.


You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

What seems to be missing in this explanation is any indication that the records from Canada matched the tag numbers on "Van Dykes" cattle.
Holland never claims to have seen the tag numbers from the 7 (or 8) head in question.

And as someone said before, what happened to the other cattle. If 7 head of Van Dykes were really Canadian, what happened to the ones Van Dyke shipped in. The first thing they would have looked at would be the pictures of the real Canadian cattle to look for some without Canadian ear tags. If they found them, that would be the end of it. We would never have heard about this. They didn't. Swift could have matched the ear tags to their own Canadian cattle, and that would have been the end of it. They didn't. Fishy.

So where does he say he matched the numbers to the cattle in the pictures?
 

Tam

Well-known member
ocm said:
Tam said:
ocm said:
~SH~'s reading comprehension problem is spreading. Reread the article. Holland never says he saw the records himself.


You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

What seems to be missing in this explanation is any indication that the records from Canada matched the tag numbers on "Van Dykes" cattle.
Holland never claims to have seen the tag numbers from the 7 (or 8) head in question.

And as someone said before, what happened to the other cattle. If 7 head of Van Dykes were really Canadian, what happened to the ones Van Dyke shipped in. The first thing they would have looked at would be the pictures of the real Canadian cattle to look for some without Canadian ear tags. If they found them, that would be the end of it. We would never have heard about this. They didn't. Swift could have matched the ear tags to their own Canadian cattle, and that would have been the end of it. They didn't. Fishy.

So where does he say he matched the numbers to the cattle in the pictures?

Tell us ocm WOULD THIS SOUTH DAKOTA STATE VET THAT IS KNOWN TO CRITIZE THE USDA GO ON RECORD SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE RECORDS IF HE HADN'T PERSONALLY SEEN THEM AND VERIFIED FOR HIMSELF THAT THESE ARE THE CATTLE HE WAS QUESTIONING? YES OR NO geez what does ocm stand for obviously complete moron
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
ocm said:
Tam said:
You reread it

The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."

Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."

But the records seem to indica

te
the mix-up occurred at the plant."

How would he know what the available records indicate or include if he didn't see them?? Do you really think a State Vet, that has been questioning this issue and the USDA's handling of it, is just going to take the USDA's word on the records and make such comments to the media without first LOOKING AT THOSE RECORDS HIMSELF. :roll: He said the records indicate he didn't say I was told the records indicate. Come on ocm I think this vet would care a bit more about his credibility than you seem to when you take your information source's word as the truth only to have it blow up in your face. :roll: :roll: :roll:

What seems to be missing in this explanation is any indication that the records from Canada matched the tag numbers on "Van Dykes" cattle.
Holland never claims to have seen the tag numbers from the 7 (or 8) head in question.

And as someone said before, what happened to the other cattle. If 7 head of Van Dykes were really Canadian, what happened to the ones Van Dyke shipped in. The first thing they would have looked at would be the pictures of the real Canadian cattle to look for some without Canadian ear tags. If they found them, that would be the end of it. We would never have heard about this. They didn't. Swift could have matched the ear tags to their own Canadian cattle, and that would have been the end of it. They didn't. Fishy.

So where does he say he matched the numbers to the cattle in the pictures?

Tell us ocm WOULD THIS SOUTH DAKOTA STATE VET THAT IS KNOWN TO CRITIZE THE USDA GO ON RECORD SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE RECORDS IF HE HADN'T PERSONALLY SEEN THEM AND VERIFIED FOR HIMSELF THAT THESE ARE THE CATTLE HE WAS QUESTIONING? YES OR NO geez what does ocm stand for obviously complete moron

Tam, you are great at leaping to conclusions and calling names. Was Van Dyke allowed to look at Swift's records when he was denied payment?

A lot of things in the world can and do happen. Some of them might even surprise you. That is why you need to be a critical thinker and not jump to conclusions.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Tam said:
ocm said:
What seems to be missing in this explanation is any indication that the records from Canada matched the tag numbers on "Van Dykes" cattle.
Holland never claims to have seen the tag numbers from the 7 (or 8) head in question.

And as someone said before, what happened to the other cattle. If 7 head of Van Dykes were really Canadian, what happened to the ones Van Dyke shipped in. The first thing they would have looked at would be the pictures of the real Canadian cattle to look for some without Canadian ear tags. If they found them, that would be the end of it. We would never have heard about this. They didn't. Swift could have matched the ear tags to their own Canadian cattle, and that would have been the end of it. They didn't. Fishy.

So where does he say he matched the numbers to the cattle in the pictures?

Tell us ocm WOULD THIS SOUTH DAKOTA STATE VET THAT IS KNOWN TO CRITIZE THE USDA GO ON RECORD SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE RECORDS IF HE HADN'T PERSONALLY SEEN THEM AND VERIFIED FOR HIMSELF THAT THESE ARE THE CATTLE HE WAS QUESTIONING? YES OR NO geez what does ocm stand for obviously complete moron

Tam, you are great at leaping to conclusions and calling names. Was Van Dyke allowed to look at Swift's records when he was denied payment?

A lot of things in the world can and do happen. Some of them might even surprise you. That is why you need to be a critical thinker and not jump to conclusions.

Econ follow me here, ocm said Dr Holland never saw the records. still following me Econ?

I posted and article from the Rapid City Journal that quotes Dr. Holland as to have stated the Records indicate, and the records include. Still with me Econ?

ocm still denies Dr. Sam Holland saw the correct evidence.

I hope I haven't lost you, as here is the question I have for you

Do you think a vet that is known to CRITIZE the USDA would take the USDA's word about the evidence and not verify it for himself before he released a statement to the press regarding that evidence and the Van Dyke tags? YES or NO

And to answer your question. Did the Van Dykes see Swifts records, maybe, maybe not, should they have, maybe. But what does that have to do with what Dr. SAM HOLLAND, as a State Vet, was privy to before he released his statements that were quoted in this Rapid City Journal article that I posted to show ocm he had seen enough evidence to convince him the proper information was released by the USDA regarding these cattle ??? :?

That said, I would like to know why Van Dyke Jr. told us the only thing the family knew was what was in the media, when according to Mr Jan Van Dyke, he was contacted by a USDA inspector who told him that the investigation showed that the Canadian cattle were mixed with his load at the plant and had never been on his farm. If Jan had question why didn't he ask the USDA inspector when they contacted him?

And Again could the reason that the Van Dykes have not recieved an official report from the USDA be because this is an ONGOING INVESTIGATION and there is no final report ready to be released to anyone? :???:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
Econ101 said:
Tam said:
Tell us ocm WOULD THIS SOUTH DAKOTA STATE VET THAT IS KNOWN TO CRITIZE THE USDA GO ON RECORD SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE RECORDS IF HE HADN'T PERSONALLY SEEN THEM AND VERIFIED FOR HIMSELF THAT THESE ARE THE CATTLE HE WAS QUESTIONING? YES OR NO geez what does ocm stand for obviously complete moron

Tam, you are great at leaping to conclusions and calling names. Was Van Dyke allowed to look at Swift's records when he was denied payment?

A lot of things in the world can and do happen. Some of them might even surprise you. That is why you need to be a critical thinker and not jump to conclusions.

Econ follow me here, ocm said Dr Holland never saw the records. still following me Econ?

I posted and article from the Rapid City Journal that quotes Dr. Holland as to have stated the Records indicate, and the records include. Still with me Econ?

ocm still denies Dr. Sam Holland saw the correct evidence.

I hope I haven't lost you, as here is the question I have for you

Do you think a vet that is known to CRITIZE the USDA would take the USDA's word about the evidence and not verify it for himself before he released a statement to the press regarding that evidence and the Van Dyke tags? YES or NO

And to answer your question. Did the Van Dykes see Swifts records, maybe, maybe not, should they have, maybe. But what does that have to do with what Dr. SAM HOLLAND, as a State Vet, was privy to before he released his statements that were quoted in this Rapid City Journal article that I posted to show ocm he had seen enough evidence to convince him the proper information was released by the USDA regarding these cattle ??? :?

That said, I would like to know why Van Dyke Jr. told us the only thing the family knew was what was in the media, when according to Mr Jan Van Dyke, he was contacted by a USDA inspector who told him that the investigation showed that the Canadian cattle were mixed with his load at the plant and had never been on his farm. If Jan had question why didn't he ask the USDA inspector when they contacted him?

And Again could the reason that the Van Dykes have not recieved an official report from the USDA be because this is an ONGOING INVESTIGATION and there is no final report ready to be released to anyone? :???:

"evidence would seem to indicate..." is a weasel statement. We still do not know for sure if Holland actually did the investigation, saw the records, or was just told what was found out.

You should not jump to those conclusions just because you think they were probable. Jan asked for information on the investigation and was denied. If it is this hard for the USDA and Swift to track these cattle, maybe they have a little bit of work to do on their part.

Personally I don't think a producer should be put in the squeeze because of incompetent Swift or the USDA at the border.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Gee I'm not to jump to conclusions about what Dr. Sam Holland saw or didn't see when he said the investigation has convinced him, The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant", Those records include, the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable, AND strong evidence shows. :wink:

What are you basing your conclusion that the Van Dyke family is telling the truth on? :?
 

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Can Sam Holland himself place those tags on the cattle Swift said they were from, or is he just taking their word?
Hey Sandhusker do us all a favor call Hollands office and ask him and report back to us. While you are at it why not call the USDA vets at the two ports and ask them a few questions too? :wink:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
Gee I'm not to jump to conclusions about what Dr. Sam Holland saw or didn't see when he said the investigation has convinced him, The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant", Those records include, the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable, AND strong evidence shows. :wink:

What are you basing your conclusion that the Van Dyke family is telling the truth on? :?

For the simple fact that Swift was wrong either way. Why would you believe a packer who already made a mistake and didn't pay a producer after delivery?

The fact that the investigation isn't quick and slam dunk instead of "indication"s and too long a time period for an investigation to wrap up. It should have taken no time to investigate this and present documents from Swift and the border documents.

I think the investigation should be transparent. So far it has not been. Nor has the USDA been transparent.
 
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