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Hey Sandhusker

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Geeeze, my third post in a row.

Tam, "And Sandhusker I did your homework again. I would like to ask you how many times does a document have to have the words like "US consumer will be endangered", "risk of vCJD for US citizens from consumption of BSE contaminated meat", "How many US consumers may be at risk for contracting vCJD", to be a little over board and assuming great risk to US consumers. just about every page of the 36 page document has a reference to human health and the risk to it. The best one of all was on Page 8 number 17 Quote:
In addition US consumers would be subjected to both greater and unneccessary risk of contracting and dying of vCJD if the United States deviated from its longstanding policy of prohibiting the importation of ruminants and ruminant products from any country known to have BSE.
Again from the R-CALF web page taken from the actual court brief to Cebull."


Tam, there's a whale of a difference between "at risk", "greater and unneccessary" "risk of" "unkown risk" and "Great risk". It's just like "good chance of rain", "greater chance of rain", "unknown chance of rain", and "Great chance of rain".

There is absolutly no denying the fact that R-CALF is telling everybody there is a risk with Canadian beef and cattle. Yet, you haven't shown me where they have said "great risk". Until you do, Dittmer and the NMA are simply stirring sh**, and you're being drawn into it.
 
Yes then there is a great risk, a greater risk and the greatest risk Sandhusker petty word games is how R-CALF gets around the truth like last night saying in the past there were some R-CALF supporters that owned cattle in Canada and not saying the past was the fall of 2004. R-CALF is stirring something to Sandhusker and you are into it to your eyeballs
 
Oldtimer said:
~SH~ said:
I'll tell you what is wrong with the add, it basically says that if the US has another case of BSE, our food will be unsafe. Unless you can explain to me how the precautionary measures Canada has taken are inadequate in comparison with ours, you don't have a leg to stand on OT.

"Four Canadian born and raised cattle have been identified with mad cow. Two since January."

"Mad cow is fatal in animals and linked to a fatal disease in humans. Yet, USDA bureaucrats are rushing to re-open the U.S. border to Canadian beef and cattle."

THAT SAYS CANADIAN BEEF IS UNSAFE!

THAT ALSO SAYS U.S. BEEF WILL BE UNSAFE IN THE EVENT THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER CASE OF BSE.

That's how incredibly naive R-CALF is!

They're not even smart enough to use the term BSE. They have to use the "FEAR MONGERING TERM" of "MAD COW". Typical of the deceptive, "end justifies the means" organization they really are.



~SH~
Click to expand...

SH- The number one difference is Canada has 4 origin cases in a herd that is 1/20th the size of the US herd-one of these born after their feed ban was in effect-- the US has none...The difference is that the risk factor in their cattle and beef is higher....Should we not tell consumers the truth? Can you say there is NO human risk from Canadian beef? If so then you are better than all the scientists, because none say this.....

{The FACT is: removal of SRM's in both Canada and the USA is the same and is as directed by OIE. There is no difference in the safety of our beef over theirs.}

.I suppose we should go back to the old NCBA way of thinking and baffle them with bullsh*t and educate them thar folks to the way we want them to think......

{OT, typically for you, you make a statement about NCBA with NO truth to it. Show us ANY material NCBA has used for education of consumers that is not true.}


Thats right - I forgot- You don't believe in telling people the truth about the deceptive use of the USDA stamp- or believe that people should know what country their food comes from-- unless they are rich enough to cater in "branded beef"......Don't Ask-Don't Tell...........

{FACT: I have sat in on Consumer Focus groups conducted by NCBA staffers where consumers were asking questions and receiving answers and they were told the truth, and given a complete explanation of the grading system. They also were told what USDA INSPECTED means.}

{When you smear NCBA and the cattle producer members of that organization in the way you did here, don't you owe us direct quotes to support you claims if you have any integrity at all?}

Canada should test all until they find out the extent of the problem and can show its eradicated-- and if we find a domestic case we should do the same.......
Click to expand...

{comments by MRJ}
 
Taint said:
~SH~ said:
I'll tell you what is wrong with the add, it basically says that if the US has another case of BSE, our food will be unsafe. Unless you can explain to me how the precautionary measures Canada has taken are inadequate in comparison with ours, you don't have a leg to stand on OT.

"Four Canadian born and raised cattle have been identified with mad cow. Two since January."

"Mad cow is fatal in animals and linked to a fatal disease in humans. Yet, USDA bureaucrats are rushing to re-open the U.S. border to Canadian beef and cattle."

THAT SAYS CANADIAN BEEF IS UNSAFE!

THAT ALSO SAYS U.S. BEEF WILL BE UNSAFE IN THE EVENT THAT WE HAVE ANOTHER CASE OF BSE.

That's how incredibly naive R-CALF is!

They're not even smart enough to use the term BSE. They have to use the "FEAR MONGERING TERM" of "MAD COW". Typical of the deceptive, "end justifies the means" organization they really are.



~SH~
Click to expand...

If we can use factual information to pressure the government into MCOOL and keep beef prices profitable for the US cattlemen then do it. It's a dog eat dog world. The Canucks made their bed now they can sleep in it. Hopefully we can shut the boxed beef trade down as well.
Click to expand...

Do you like the fact you have an export market to Mexico and what do you think will happen to your beef prices if Mexico shut down your export market to them?
 
OT: "SH- The number one difference is Canada has 4 origin cases in a herd that is 1/20th the size of the US herd-one of these born after their feed ban was in effect-- the US has none..."

That is not the issue OT, the issue is whether or not the BSE precautionary measures taken by both countries are adequate for both countries or whether they are not adequate for either country. THAT IS THE ISSUE!

The Canadian herd is 1/7th the size of the U.S. herd, not the 1/20th bullsh*t you presented.

Where did you get 1/20th from, R-CULT?


OT: "The difference is that the risk factor in their cattle and beef is higher....Should we not tell consumers the truth?"

Consumers know the truth. If they listened to R-CULT, they wouldn't consume beef because we had a case of BSE or did you conveniently forget that?

YOU KNOW DARN WELL THIS IS ABOUT KEEPING THE CANADIAN BORDER CLOSED TO CANADIAN LIVE CATTLE. That's all it has ever been about. You R-CULTers are only fooling yourselves.

Who do you think is actually buying the "safety risk" bull anymore?

Either the precautionary measures that have been taken are adequate or they are not? That's all it was ever about.

If that is not the case, R-CULT wouldn't be pointing a loaded gun at our heads by setting a BSE presidence for Canada that they are unwilling to live with in the event that BSE is discovered here again.


OT: "Can you say there is NO human risk from Canadian beef?"

I can say that there is no evidence to support that there is a human risk from Canadian beef OR WE WOULDN'T BE IMPORTING IT WOULD WE????

I can also say there is no evidence to support human risk from U.S. beef if we had the same number of BSE positives as Canada?????

That's the issue here OT! You have to have a broader perspective on this issue than keeping the Canadian border closed to Canadian live cattle.

EITHER THE BSE PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES TAKEN BY CANADA AND THE U.S. ASSURE HUMAN SAFETY FOR BOTH COUNTRIES OR THEY ASSURE HUMAN SAFETY FOR NEITHER COUNTRY!!!!


That is the issue here!


OT: "Thats right - I forgot- You don't believe in telling people the truth about the deceptive use of the USDA stamp- or believe that people should know what country their food comes from-- unless they are rich enough to cater in "branded beef"......Don't Ask-Don't Tell..........."

Keep clinging to your same ridiculous arguments.

There is no deception to the USDA stamp because it's a "U-S-D-A" stamp not a "U-S" stamp. Only an idiot who couldn't read the "D-A" part would think otherwise. "USDA INSPECTED" has always meant "USDA INSPECTED" to everyone but the R-CULT clones like yourself who need something irrelevant to bitch about.


OT: "Canada should test all until they find out the extent of the problem and can show its eradicated-- and if we find a domestic case we should do the same......."

Canada is testing above and beyond the call of duty and they are also testing the highest risk categories.

The reason Canada has found 4 cases is because they were looking for it. They took the measures to address the situation which includes a traceback system that the narrow minded R-CULTers prohibited from "M"COOL because they didn't want to be burdened with the traceback system that is necessary to prove WHAT THEY DEMANDED ("born, raised, and slaughtered"). Proves what a bunch of visionaries they are.


reader: "Yawn. Thank God I got digital cable and a hundred new television channels."

Then what are you doing reading this?


Brad S.: " Brad sez Sandhusker is in danger of being dumbed to death."

Don't be so hard on yourself Brad. If you don't have anything to add but your typical Pshychobabble evaluations, your probably better off not even commenting.

If you have to ask whether or not R-CULT made an issue of consumers being at great risk from resumed imports of cattle and beef from Canada, you really are living in another world.

If an add in the Washington Post presenting BSE fear mongering and a court injunction does not define "GREAT" for you, you really are helpless.

Dumb that!


~SH~
 
SH, "Consumers know the truth."

Then why all the lip-flapping about what R-CALF says about Canadian beef?
 
Sandblaster: "Then why all the lip-flapping about what R-CALF says about Canadian beef?"

Oh, I see, so since the majority of consumers do not believe R-CULT's lies about the safety of Canadian beef, then it's OK to continue lying about it?

Amazing what you can justify with a little lack of conscience and a little lack of integrity.



~SH~
 
I guess some NCBA people got a DIFFERENT press release. Or maybe they just read what they wanted to.


(Billings, Mont.) – "Tomorrow, on March 2, 2005, the R-CALF USA will go before U.S. District Judge Richard F. Cebull, presiding over the U.S. District Court for the District of Montana, to seek a preliminary injunction to block the reopening of the Canadian border to imports of Canadian beef and cattle.



"I am disappointed that cattle farmers and ranchers have to resort to legal action in order to protect their industry from the inappropriate and premature actions of the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), but these are the circumstances our industry faces, and here are the reasons we are taking this extraordinary action:



American consumers are entitled to the safest food products possible.
The U.S. cattle industry provides the safest and most wholesome beef in the world.
Canada now has a BSE problem, documented by four confirmed cases of BSE in its native cattle herd.
USDA now has a responsibility to protect the U.S. food supply and the U.S. cattle industry from the BSE risk presented by Canada.
USDA is not fulfilling this responsibility. The agency is not following the more stringent safeguards recommended by international science, nor is USDA following the more stringent safeguards practiced by every other country in the world affected by BSE.
USDA's actions are placing the U.S. cattle industry at risk from a loss of consumer confidence in the U.S. beef supply.
 
Quote: "American consumers are entitled to the safest food products possible."

This from the flip flopping deceptive organization that stated that the large packers didn't care about food safety and only cared about the money.


Quote: "The U.S. cattle industry provides the safest and most wholesome beef in the world."

This from the deceptive organization that claims that Canadian beef is contaminated when Canada's BSE precautionary measures are more stringent than ours.

R-CULT/OCM just want to use BSE as a convenient excuse to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle. One doesn't have to look past "M"ID prohibited from "M"COOL to see how deep R-CULT/OCM's food safety concerns run.


Quote: "Canada now has a BSE problem, documented by four confirmed cases of BSE in its native cattle herd."

Canada and the U.S. have traded both cattle and feed for years. We also had a case of BSE in the U.S. Canada found BSE because they were looking for it in their attempt to get rid of it. Let's hope this country never has to face the reprecussions of R-CULT's ignorance and arrogance.


Quote: "USDA now has a responsibility to protect the U.S. food supply and the U.S. cattle industry from the BSE risk presented by Canada."

It's already been done.

What part of SRM removal, increase BSE surveilance in the highest risk categories, the ruminant feed ban, only importing UTM cattle, and removal of BSE positives from the food chain do you fail to comprehend?


Quote: "USDA is not fulfilling this responsibility."

USDA has fulfilled this responsibility. R-CULT isolationists want to ignore the BSE precautionary measures Candada has taken and set a different BSE presidence for the U.S. in the event that BSE is discovered here again.


Quote: "The agency is not following the more stringent safeguards recommended by international science, nor is USDA following the more stringent safeguards practiced by every other country in the world affected by BSE."

USDA has taken the necessary measures to assure food safety. What you are asking for now, you would not want to be subjected to in the event that BSE is discovered here again. You will divert around the standard you have set for Canada if the time comes that we are faced with the same situation.


Quote: "USDA's actions are placing the U.S. cattle industry at risk from a loss of consumer confidence in the U.S. beef supply."

To the contrary, it is R-CULT and their mindless fear mongering that is threatening consumer confidence in the U.S. beef supply by trying to pretend that we haven't had BSE in the U.S. and pretending that Canada has taken less stringent BSE precautionary measures than the U.S. has.

R-CULT's BSE "fear mongering" rhetoric fools nobody but themselves.


~SH~
 
SH, "Don't be so hard on yourself Brad. If you don't have anything to add but your typical Pshychobabble evaluations, your probably better off not even commenting."

Well, I understand your disdain for logic, but condensing arguements to their bare logic contributes more than you can comprehend. Your compelling Sandhusker to supply your quote is weak sauce.

SH, "If you have to ask whether or not R-CULT made an issue of consumers being at great risk from resumed imports of cattle and beef from Canada, you really are living in another world."

Oh no you don't. I'm sure your changing the standard is well an um ...ACCIDENT? The issue is a quote, supply it or recant or be a pu$$ and do neither. I may not baccept some RCALF positions any more than you, but I won't fabricate quotes by them.


SH, "If an add in the Washington Post presenting BSE fear mongering and a court injunction does not define "GREAT" for you, you really are helpless."

Quote, quote, quote, quote there ain't no damn quote
Helpless declared by SH = double negation


Sh, "Dumb that! "

You can't dumb me to death with antilogic, I used to tutor the Kansas athletic department, so I've seen it all.
 
that RCALF did NOT say what you alleged.

Still, you take their statement and rip it instead of apologizing for "putting words in their mouth" that are NOT true.

I know, you thought you made a mistake once, but you were wrong. :???:
 
Brad S.: "Your compelling Sandhusker to supply your quote is weak sauce."

The Chief: "that RCALF did NOT say what you alleged."


IT WAS NOT MY QUOTE !!!!!


Give yourself the lecture in comprehension Brad! You ASSUMED I was quoting R-CULT when Sandhusker was referring to Dittmer quoting R-CULT.


This is the exact quote that Sandhusker claims Dittmer made WHILE QUOTING R-CALF: "There is a great risk to human health from resumed imports of cattle and beef from Canada".

At this time I have no proof whether R-CULT made that exact statement or not. It's not my responsibility to defend Dittmer's statements. Dittmer can defend his own statements.

To me it's really irrelevant whether R-CULT made that exact statement or not, their whole injunction was based on instilling fear in U.S. consumers that Canadian beef and live cattle posed a food safety risk.

If that wasn't the intent, what the hell was the intent of the injunction and the Washington Post add?

Only a complete idiot would deny that R-CULT's motive was to suggest that Canadian beef and live cattle pose a consumer safety risk so they can stop Canadian imports and stab Canadian producers in the back.

What I do know is that R-CALF quoted the USDA's Inspector General in the Washington Post as saying, "In response to industry pressure, USDA knowingly approved imports of high-risk Canadian beef products in violation of it's own ban."

That clearly implies Canadian beef is high risk which is exactly what R-CULT's MO is. Quoting someone else gives R-CULT the room to slither around it to avoid their slander lawsuit while they continue to create the "ILLUSION" that Canadian beef is unsafe. Typical R-CULT deception!

They file the injunction then quote Federal Judge Cebull's response to their injunction in their add rather than stating their own position. That is cowardly!

They have taken a clear position on the safety of Canadian beef and live cattle but are unwilling to accept the consequences for their position.

Leo McDonnel stated that Canada was still processing downer cows. According to the Canadian producers, that is not true. Don't try to dance around that one because that was recorded on the internet.

If R-CULT is going to lie about the safety of Canadian beef they should at least have the courage to stand behind their claims rather than hiding behind someone else's quotes BASED ON THEIR COURT INJUNCTIONS.



~SH~
 

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