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How Biofuels Could Starve the Poor (Long Read)

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
I personally don't believe that biofuels from corn is all that economical in producing fuel. It takes a lot of inputs like fertilizer to grow that corn and fertilizer price is directly related to energy price as the fertilizer is energy intensive.

Probably the most unreported fact of ethanol is how innefficient it is to burn in your vehicle. Not only does it cost more to produce but once you put it in your car it gets less miles per gallon.

I forget the exact figures but Consumer report tested a normal Chevy SUV that got around 19 mpg thin one running on E85 Ethanol and it got more like 11 or 12 miles per gallon.

With the less efficiency it better be a lot cheaper per gallon or people will be going broke and not even know why.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Steve said:
one cost is often ignored is the cost of containing the Radical Muslim agenda fueled by their countries oil revenues.

isn't it cheaper to produce our own then support other countries?

I think most of us would support freedom from oil produced in Countries with Radical Muslims.

But the question is rather ethanol is that answer or not? And should the government be vesting our tax dollars in it saying it is? I would be interested to see if any drop at all has happened due to ethanol increasing? I do not think it has.

One reason is my comment above, add E10 to a gallon of gas and due to its inefficiency in the vehicle the person ends up buying more gasoline. With the gasoline being mixed with E10 that means 90% of the gas came from Radical Muslim countries, if you use more of it due to E10 bringing down your gas mileage hypothecial you could be buying more oil from Iran, Iraq, etc.....

There is many other alternatives that could be looked into so we are less dependent on foreign oil, such as offshore drilling, drilling in Alaska, hybrid cars, battery cars, Hydrogen cars etc....

Problem is these truly independent sources will not be explored to there fullest as long as the Government mandates that all Gasoline must contain Ethanol and spends our tax dollars to prop up a loosing venture.

I want freedom from foreign oil as much as the next person, I just do not buy into the Hype that ethanol is that answer. Along with Global Warming I think this is one of the biggest Hoaxes being sold to the American people!
 

katrina

Well-known member
Remember the automobile companies are not on board for ethenol... A little tweaking and gas milage will increase.... It's not in there interest to change... To me the big thing for ethenol is how much water it takes to make ethenol... Now biodiesel is a differant story.... All we need is as much effort to make it work as the effort to make it fail......

My hubby was talking to some truckers in Fremont and they had new trucks that had a recall and when they got them back after the recall their fuel milage had dropped a bunch.......
 

Econ101

Well-known member
I think the energy equivalent of ethanol compared to gas is around 70% if I remember correctly.

6 July 2005
Study Slams Economics Of Ethanol And Biodiesel

A new joint study from Cornell University and University of California-Berkeley says that fuels produced from biomass are uneconomical as they use much more energy in their creation than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates. "There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel," said study author and Cornell researcher David Pimentel. "These strategies are not sustainable."

The study, appearing in Natural Resources Research, entailed a detailed analysis of the energy input-yield ratios of producing ethanol from corn, switch grass and wood biomass as well as for producing biodiesel from soybean and sunflower plants. The researchers considered such factors as the energy used in producing the crop (production of pesticides and fertilizer, running farm machinery and irrigating, grinding and transporting the crop) and in fermenting/distilling the ethanol from the water mix.

For ethanol production, the study found that:

* Corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.
* Switch grass requires 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.
* Wood biomass requires 57 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

For biodiesel production, the study found that:

* Soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.
* Sunflower plants requires 118 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

The researchers acknowledged that finding alternative fuel sources was of great importance but said that bio-fuels were not the answer. "The United State desperately needs a liquid fuel replacement for oil in the near future," says Pimentel, "but producing ethanol or biodiesel from plant biomass is going down the wrong road, because you use more energy to produce these fuels than you get out from the combustion of these products."

While bio-fuels may not be the answer to the looming specter of decreasing oil production, Pimentel does advocate the use of burning biomass to produce thermal energy (to heat homes, for example). In closing, Pimentel said the U.S. should focus its efforts on producing electrical energy from photovoltaic cells, wind power and burning biomass and producing fuel from hydrogen conversion. "Ethanol production in the United States does not benefit the nation's energy security, its agriculture, economy or the environment."

Ref: Natural Resources Research (Vol. 14:1, 65-76)
Source: Media release - Cornell University
 

katrina

Well-known member
Cal,
We don't know anything about mustard seed.... This guy knew we had a mom and pop biodiesel plant(thanks to our corn dealer) and wanted to try it.... His outfit was too big..
 

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