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How to De-bunk a conspiracy theory.

Steve

Well-known member
How to De-bunk a conspiracy theory.

first you need a conspiracy theory.. like this one.

Claim: Ukrainian Opposition Leaders Killed Their Own Support

hypocritexposer said:
Is Glen Beck now reporting Russian propaganda?

Release of Secret Phone Conversation Reveals Bombshell Claim: Ukrainian Opposition Leaders Killed Their Own Supporters With Sniper Fire

The Estonian foreign affairs minister allegedly told the European Union foreign affairs chief last week about a claim that leaders from Ukraine’s opposition were behind the sniper fire that led to the deaths of more than 70 of their supporters, according to an purported phone conversation uploaded to YouTube Tuesday.

Urmas Paet confirmed the recording of his conversation with EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, according to the Russian RIA-Novosti news agency, telling reporters that the recording was authentic. In his phone conversation with Ashton, Paet said he received information that the snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were hired by leaders in Independence Square.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/05/release-of-secret-phone-conversation-reveals-bombshell-claim-ukrainian-opposition-leaders-killed-their-own-supporters-with-sniper-fire/

then while lengthy you rip it to shreds .. LINE by LINE..

like this...
Steve said:
I wasn't going to respond to this crap.. but decided to show how a conspiracy theory distorts the truth..




Release of Secret Phone Conversation Reveals Bombshell Claim: Ukrainian Opposition Leaders Killed Their Own Supporters With Sniper Fire

pretty explosive claim..

but lets start with the call..
according to the Russian RIA-Novosti news agency, telling reporters that the recording was authentic.
state run media says it is so.. so it must be..




but for the sake of showing more of how this is just complete bullcrap..

The call took place after Estonia’s Foreign Minister Urmas Paet visited Kiev on February 25,
he received a call.. and on the call someone made an accusation..

and the Russians recorded it.. or now have a recording of it..

so where is the "proof"... well so far there is NO proof.. just an unfounded accusation..



so lets dig a bit deeper.
“It’s very disappointing that such surveillance took place altogether. It’s not a coincidence that this conversation was uploaded [to the web] today,” he said.

Paet told the news agency that he spoke with Ashton last week and did not directly comment on the conversation, saying he would need to listen to it again.
so now we know someone (Russians maybe) listened in.. and the guy who was talking .. doesn't want to comment without listening to what he said..


I don't know about you.. but if I had made an accusation like he did.. I would remember the details..

but he is just passing an accusation on...


,.. and this article doesn't prove anything other then that someone bugged someone's phone and leaked the information to Russian state media.

is Beck's correspondent trying to say the protestors shot themselves.. or is she just reporting the leak,..

my opinion she was just reporting the leak..





BUT..

at this point nothing in the article supports the headline ...

so I went to the source of the original article..

http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

Russian times.. really why is it all the nasty articles about the Ukrainian people end up coming from a Russian state media source.. that are about as unbiased as MSNBC ...




but back to the conspiracy theory..

so what we know so far.. is someone made an awful accusation and the conversation was bugged..

remember the guy who wouldn't comment.. well
Paet also recalled his conversation with a doctor who treated those shot by snipers in Kiev. She said that both protesters and police were shot at by the same people.
no contradiction there.. he would speak to RT but can't remember when asked about it..



and to top it off.. he remember just enough to repeat the accusation.. how convenient?
recalled his conversation with a doctor who treated those shot by snipers in Kiev. She said that both protesters and police were shot at by the same people.
so a doctor made the accusation to him.. that he passed on.

and she allegedly said.
She said that both protesters and police were shot at by the same people.

“And second, what was quite disturbing, this same Olga [Bogomolets] told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides,”
ok .. she made a damning accusation.. but where is the "evidence",.. the "proof" ?

so far there is NONE.. not one bit of proof..




but there is more..

the so-called proof..
“So that she then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened,” Paet said.

Olga Bogomolets was the main doctor for the Maidan mobile clinic when protests turned violent in Kiev. She treated the gravely injured and helped organized their transportation to neighboring countries, who had expressed a willingness to treat those with severe wounds. From the outset, Olga blamed the injuries and deaths on snipers. She turned down the position of Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine for Humanitarian Affairs offered by the coup-appointed regime.
ok he offered some proof. .pictures of the dead..

a picture can show who died.. and often it is obvious they died of a gunshot wound.. but it isn't proof of who shot them..



so digging deeper..
she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting
I would think she meant MO.. and I would agree ... they could easily be the same style of shooting.. government forces often all get trained from the same manual.. but it still doesn't prove anything.



so I dug deeper.
the same type of bullets
ok.. unless they could be traced back to a source.. them being the same doesn't prove anything.. more then likely most of the rifles in the Ukraine use the same type of ammunition. 7.62×39mm or 12.7×55mm ect..

in other words.. a different caliber would show more evidence then all being the same caliber.

and like the assault gun description we get from liberals.. to them all the rifles were sniper rifles..

so this is not proof..



so I dug a bit deeper
, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened,” Paet said.

well that really isn't true..
On 25 February parliament asked the International Criminal Court to "establish and bring to justice" senior Ukrainian officials, including Yanukovych, for crimes against humanity during the 21 November 2013 to 22 February 2014 "peaceful protests of citizens"
instead of letting politics get in the way,.. they asked the International criminal court to step in..
and to have a criminal court case on crimes against humanity.. you have to have an investigation and gather real evidence..

so far.. NO proof.. just accusations..




I even checked out the doctor that they claim made the accusations..
and that is when I found they out the TRUTH.
Olga Bogomolets was the main doctor for the Maidan mobile clinic when protests turned violent in Kiev.
since most of the rest of it is a conspiracy theory. you want to make sure there really is a doctor called Olga Bogomolets



there is,... but..
Olga Bogomolets, MD (born March 22, 1966) – Ukrainian singer, songwriter and physician, Honoured Doctor of Ukraine, professor of the Bogomolets National Medical University
but... her area of expertise isn't gunshot wounds..
nope..

the founder and chief doctor of the Institute of Dermatology and Cosmetology. She is the author of more than 70 research works on dermatology

After the return from US, she had started off her own Clinic of Laser Medicine, now known as the Dr. Bogomolets’ Institute of Dermatology and Cosmetology.
she is a doctor.. but given the vague statements.. I wouldn't use her as and expert in a court of law..






but that isn't the end..

Olga Bogomolets said she had not told Mr Paet that policemen and protesters had been killed in the same manner.

"Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people," she told The Telegraph. "I have no access to those people."

But she said she had asked for a full forensic criminal investigation into the deaths that occurred in the Maidan. "No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons. I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything.


her words on this conspiracy theory put out by RT and puppets who believed them..
"I think you can only say something like this on the basis of fact," she said. "Its not correct and its not good to do this. It should be based on fact."



I am sorry if this is a bit long winded... but I feel it is necessary sometimes to show the extent of how I look at an issue..

and this is just one more conspiracy theory completely debunked..

see it's that easy.,.. any reasonable person can see the premise made by the conspiracy theorist is total bunk.. but sadly he never will...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
:roll:

I dig down deeper than whether the conspiracy theory is true or not. Who is behind "putting it out there" and what could be their possible motivations.

But when I throw something like this out there, for further thought and discussion, you automatically think that I agree with it and start your character assasinations.
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
:roll:

I dig down deeper than whether the conspiracy theory is true or not. Who is behind "putting it out there" and what could be their possible motivations.

But when I throw something like this out there, for further thought and discussion, you automatically think that I agree with it and start your character assasinations.

bull crap.. you have been defending this crap for two days now..

the whole thing is a LIE... a falsehood,... propaganda,... trash..

and you still bring it up and try to defend it..

but you can't.. so you try to twist it around..

"everything" you have posted over the last two days is a bunch of trash..

stories filled with insinuations, misleading comments, outright lies, distortions and veiled conspiracy theories only you can see

there is medication for that you know..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
hypocritexposer said:
:roll:

I dig down deeper than whether the conspiracy theory is true or not. Who is behind "putting it out there" and what could be their possible motivations.

But when I throw something like this out there, for further thought and discussion, you automatically think that I agree with it and start your character assasinations.

bull crap.. you have been defending this crap for two days now..

the whole thing is a LIE... a falsehood,... propaganda,... trash..

and you still bring it up and try to defend it..

but you can't.. so you try to twist it around..

"everything" you have posted over the last two days is a bunch of trash..

stories filled with insinuations, misleading comments, outright lies, distortions and veiled conspiracy theories only you can see

there is medication for that you know..

I guess time will tell eh?
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
How to De-bunk a conspiracy theory.

first you need a conspiracy theory.. like this one.

Claim: Ukrainian Opposition Leaders Killed Their Own Support

hypocritexposer said:
Is Glen Beck now reporting Russian propaganda?



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/05/release-of-secret-phone-conversation-reveals-bombshell-claim-ukrainian-opposition-leaders-killed-their-own-supporters-with-sniper-fire/

then while lengthy you rip it to shreds .. LINE by LINE..

like this...
Steve said:
I wasn't going to respond to this crap.. but decided to show how a conspiracy theory distorts the truth..






pretty explosive claim..

but lets start with the call..

state run media says it is so.. so it must be..




but for the sake of showing more of how this is just complete bullcrap..


he received a call.. and on the call someone made an accusation..

and the Russians recorded it.. or now have a recording of it..

so where is the "proof"... well so far there is NO proof.. just an unfounded accusation..



so lets dig a bit deeper.

so now we know someone (Russians maybe) listened in.. and the guy who was talking .. doesn't want to comment without listening to what he said..


I don't know about you.. but if I had made an accusation like he did.. I would remember the details..

but he is just passing an accusation on...


,.. and this article doesn't prove anything other then that someone bugged someone's phone and leaked the information to Russian state media.

is Beck's correspondent trying to say the protestors shot themselves.. or is she just reporting the leak,..

my opinion she was just reporting the leak..





BUT..

at this point nothing in the article supports the headline ...

so I went to the source of the original article..

http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

Russian times.. really why is it all the nasty articles about the Ukrainian people end up coming from a Russian state media source.. that are about as unbiased as MSNBC ...




but back to the conspiracy theory..

so what we know so far.. is someone made an awful accusation and the conversation was bugged..

remember the guy who wouldn't comment.. well

no contradiction there.. he would speak to RT but can't remember when asked about it..



and to top it off.. he remember just enough to repeat the accusation.. how convenient?

so a doctor made the accusation to him.. that he passed on.

and she allegedly said.

ok .. she made a damning accusation.. but where is the "evidence",.. the "proof" ?

so far there is NONE.. not one bit of proof..




but there is more..

the so-called proof..

ok he offered some proof. .pictures of the dead..

a picture can show who died.. and often it is obvious they died of a gunshot wound.. but it isn't proof of who shot them..



so digging deeper..

I would think she meant MO.. and I would agree ... they could easily be the same style of shooting.. government forces often all get trained from the same manual.. but it still doesn't prove anything.



so I dug deeper.

ok.. unless they could be traced back to a source.. them being the same doesn't prove anything.. more then likely most of the rifles in the Ukraine use the same type of ammunition. 7.62×39mm or 12.7×55mm ect..

in other words.. a different caliber would show more evidence then all being the same caliber.

and like the assault gun description we get from liberals.. to them all the rifles were sniper rifles..

so this is not proof..



so I dug a bit deeper


well that really isn't true..

instead of letting politics get in the way,.. they asked the International criminal court to step in..
and to have a criminal court case on crimes against humanity.. you have to have an investigation and gather real evidence..

so far.. NO proof.. just accusations..




I even checked out the doctor that they claim made the accusations..
and that is when I found they out the TRUTH.

since most of the rest of it is a conspiracy theory. you want to make sure there really is a doctor called Olga Bogomolets



there is,... but..

but... her area of expertise isn't gunshot wounds..
nope..


she is a doctor.. but given the vague statements.. I wouldn't use her as and expert in a court of law..






but that isn't the end..




her words on this conspiracy theory put out by RT and puppets who believed them..




I am sorry if this is a bit long winded... but I feel it is necessary sometimes to show the extent of how I look at an issue..

and this is just one more conspiracy theory completely debunked..

see it's that easy.,.. any reasonable person can see the premise made by the conspiracy theorist is total bunk.. but sadly he never will...
 
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