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Hypothetical, just for fun.

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Would you buy one?

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  • Yeah, $2 to take it off your hands.

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  • Lets see him work, and I'll consider it.

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adventureman

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I was browsing the net and found this breed of cow dog, called a Hanging Tree, I think. Anyways, the things looked like mutts, they were a cross of Border Collies, Cathoula Leopard, and Austalian Kelpies. I was thinking last night, if I could develop a breed of dog to better help me out on the farm, what would it be? So I got thinking:

3/8 Border Collie- an obvious choice, arguabbly some of the smartest and best herders in the world, but not quite tough enough for cattle
1/8 Greyhound- speed, speed, speed, and tracking abilities
1/4 Australian Kelpie- hardy, agile, and great herders
1/4 Rottweiler- tough and determined (no I don't have brain damage, its the breeds original purpose, I have heard of many breeders doing it, and my 14 month old male is getting better at it everyday)
I might go 1/4 BC and GH, as well, and I chose the Kelpie over another obvious choice of the Blue Heeler, I just think they are too aggressive.

Anyways, if you had the time and money what would you do?
________
headshops
 

ropesanddogs

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Take out the greyhound,they cant track,its all sight,put bmc,and change the rotty to a bulldog (out of catching ,smart dependable lines) because IMHO rotties are too watered down, present day rotties just dont show the heart and grit they used to,Ive seen more than a few tried as hog dogs,and as soon as they get a serious hit,they call it quits...while the hanging tree have some bulldog deep in there.And yep they are great dogs.as far as too agressive,i dont know the meaning of that...as long as they arent tearing livestock up,and theyre doing it wisely,they can bite all theyd like to,but then again,cowboys here need "hard" or "catchy" dogs for the cattle down here,while some of you have dog broke cattle...Just a few things to consider...Me personally,i have thought th same thing and ive came up with this...Ok,to start off,id want some leapord,from a line with plenty of nose,a border collie from down south near the border ( fighting coriente's and brahmers will put a dog to the test)with plenty of intelligence and grit.I personally dont think you need the kelpie and border collie both ,because theyre work styles are similar,tho the kelpie nearly always shows plenty of grit...Also,some red nose pit (theyre streamlined and have nice square jaws) from running catch dog lines (they can run upwards of 10 miles,and can still catch and hold anything)maybe half black mouth cur.So basically it adds just apinch of catch when baying dogs alone wont stop a cow,and last but not least,some heeler,so they wont be all head...This is a great topic,and something i think we should all ponder for awhile :)
 

Haytrucker

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I currently have a 4 year old female that as best we can tell is 1/2 Blue Heeler and 1/2 Miniature greyhound. I thought she was the "ideal" cowdog, as in stayed the hell out of the road, until this past year she started keeping stock away from stackyard gates when I unloaded hay.
I went to help my neighbor awhile back, we gathered and sorted pairs to haul out. Not a real "official" deal, as we gathered with four wheelers, but she was working real nice there. We got into a good sized pen and she sure pushed pairs to the gate nice and easy. When we had enough sorted off, we ran those to the working pens, to split pairs and vaccinate calves. I turned to her and said "go get in the pickup". I'll be danged if she wasn't waiting for me when went to load out. I knew this dog was smart, but...
In my opinion the ideal dog probably varies according to what you want to use them for. Purebred Blue Heelers are a little dicey, I'll admit, but if you ever have the right one, they'll put alot of other dogs to shame handling cattle. IMHO, the training, or fostering of natural instinct, will turn out better dogs than any breed, or combination thereof.
 

Denny

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The ideal dog is one who listens.......mine got ran over a month ago she was sleeping under the daughters car and she backed over her.Broke her back leg :mad: but she's coming around be another month before she gets around good.( I HOPE) The car is real quiet cant believe she didnt move you know women driver and all. :wink:
 

Mike

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Denny said:
The ideal dog is one who listens.......mine got ran over a month ago she was sleeping under the daughters car and she backed over her.Broke her back leg :mad: but she's coming around be another month before she gets around good.( I HOPE) The car is real quiet cant believe she didnt move you know women driver and all. :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

and all...............
 

Tom S

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Denny said:
The ideal dog is one who listens.......mine got ran over a month ago she was sleeping under the daughters car and she backed over her.Broke her back leg :mad: but she's coming around be another month before she gets around good.( I HOPE) The car is real quiet cant believe she didnt move you know women driver and all. :wink:

Denny, Is that that good dog that I seen? I hope she gets back up to snuff.About 14 years ago I ran over the best dog I ever had, a mutt that could do anything.Over a dozen years she was a friend and the best help a guy could get. She was getting pretty old and hard of hearing and was laying under the front wheel of my pickup. She was snoozing and didn't hear it start up and I didn't know she was under there. I broke her back and to make a long story short, had to shoot her. She's buried in our yard with a marker. Lots of tears from everybody that day.
 

Denny

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Tom S said:
Denny said:
The ideal dog is one who listens.......mine got ran over a month ago she was sleeping under the daughters car and she backed over her.Broke her back leg :mad: but she's coming around be another month before she gets around good.( I HOPE) The car is real quiet cant believe she didnt move you know women driver and all. :wink:

Denny, Is that that good dog that I seen? I hope she gets back up to snuff.About 14 years ago I ran over the best dog I ever had, a mutt that could do anything.Over a dozen years she was a friend and the best help a guy could get. She was getting pretty old and hard of hearing and was laying under the front wheel of my pickup. She was snoozing and didn't hear it start up and I didn't know she was under there. I broke her back and to make a long story short, had to shoot her. She's buried in our yard with a marker. Lots of tears from everybody that day.


Yea the same dog good thing its haying season she stays home anyhow.She should be ready for fall work going to have her bred this fall to a Border Collie that looks just like her..

My last dog was under the loader of the tractor when a large corral panel fell and broke her back.I had to shoot her and bury her toughest thing I've ever done.
 

DOC HARRIS

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Denny said:
The ideal dog is one who listens.......mine got ran over a month ago she was sleeping under the daughters car and she backed over her.Broke her back leg :mad: but she's coming around be another month before she gets around good.( I HOPE) The car is real quiet cant believe she didnt move you know women driver and all. :wink:
Denny - Please check out my Profile before you discredit these suggestions: Get a jar of Nivia cream or some kind of skin cream/oil and several times a day massage your dog's leg MUSCLES (not the bone) from the distal end of the leg (foot end) up toward the body to encourage increased blood supply in the area and get the muscle tone back in her leg. Five minutes each time will be sufficient. When she can walk without holding her leg off of the ground, try to find a Chiropractor who will check out her Spinal Alignment. Even if the Chiropractor tries to beg off because he has never adjusted an animal - encourage him to at least give it a try! I had a patient (Human!) one time who had a dog that was "paralyzed" from the hips down, and just dragged it's hind quarters. I adjusted it -once - and that dog jumped up and ran around my parking lot and jumped on me and licked my face and yipped and whined and wiggled and ran and jumped and both my patient and I were in tears. Even if your dog doesn't seem to have any problems, she can still have some vertebral subluxations which can cause trouble later on in her life if you don't get her spine corrected. A car running over a leg is pretty traumatic. Just a thought.
 

adventureman

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ropesanddogs said:
IMHO rotties are too watered down, present day rotties just dont show the heart and grit they used to,Ive seen more than a few tried as hog dogs,and as soon as they get a serious hit,they call it quits

You make a good point, but the same can be said for any breed. I had a Border Collie, who got kicked, well more accurately brushed, in the ribs. That was it. The dog will hold one or two head on so they don't come out the gate, but he won't work behind anything. My Rottie that I am starting on the other hand got one right in the chest, and kept going. Two days later he got rolled and caught underneath two cows, he got up and kept going. He is all drive, and has lots of heart. He just needs to mature and practice a bit.

I think part of it comes to genetics, and part to upbrining. I do agree though, that a good working Rottie is as rare as a Border Collie that looses his nerve before even started on work.
________
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Haytrucker

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Not trying to rile anyone, and I realize cows vary across the country, but around here a "good" cow dog probably never get's within three feet of the quarry, either end. I have seen exceptions, of course, but our dog's teeth are for eating, not "herding". I'm sure I sound like a Border Collie man by saying that, but I always have, and always will, use a Heeler; just has to be the right one.
 

adventureman

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Haytrucker said:
Not trying to rile anyone, and I realize cows vary across the country, but around here a "good" cow dog probably never get's within three feet of the quarry, either end. I have seen exceptions, of course, but our dog's teeth are for eating, not "herding". I'm sure I sound like a Border Collie man by saying that, but I always have, and always will, use a Heeler; just has to be the right one.

Where did you find a Heeler that doesn't bite at their heels? Isn't that what they do?
That's what I mean by too aggressive. A dog shouldn't really need to use his teeth. People don't always need a prod or sorting stick to move cattle. I've never saw a Heeler that doesn't "heel" but I would sure like to.
________
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Haytrucker

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My dog isn't pure Heeler, but I have seen some that work the same. Yes most Heelers bite, but they don't need to, usually. A little training on the "good enough" and they do or they don't. If you use a dog to work a crowd alley they probably need a little bite, or the second time some bull, or proddy cow spins, then it's called for. Generally we just use a dog to push gently, saving some steps or riding in the process.
 

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