• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

I also posted this in Ranchtalk....

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
...but maybe it might develop into a discussion here too.

hypocritexposer said:
A couple thoughts

There are a few things that most, if not all, of these shooters have in common.

1) access to guns (not always legally)
2) on some sort of Psychotropic drug/serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs)
3) are suicidal
4) somewhat of a loner, and seek recognition.


1) guns have been around for ever and even assualt weapons have been accesible since the 50s, for US civilians. As I understand the previous "assualt weapons ban", the number of mass shootings did not decrease when it was implemented, and did not decrease when lifted.

2) Psychotropic drugs are being used more readily, for kids to adults. One of the side effects of these drugs can be depression, suicide and hallucinations. All 3 "side effects" can also be observed if the "patient" stops the usage etc.

3) suicidal before, or after the drugs?

4) being a "loner" might lead to the depression, but IMO, being a loner, might not be their choice, but an external factor, caused by someone else, which may, or may not affect the person emotionally/mentally.

Seeking "recognition/notiriety, is why I think they seek out those that can not defend themselves, like those in "gun free zones". When confronted, most attempt to committ suicide, because they want to maintain control and not have someone else decide what happens to them.

The "Batman killer", had 7 theatres within 20 minutes of him, that were playing Batman that night. He chose the only one that did not allow permit holders to carry.

In the last 50 years, "mass shooters", have not killed more than 3 people, in locations that permit holders were allowed to carry, except in Arizona, in the Giffords shooting.


So, what DON'T they have in common, with the people that do not kill, when they have the same access to guns?

And what has changed in the last few decades, to increase the number of these mass shootings?


2012:

Suicide now the leading cause of injury-related death in the United States

The conventional treatment for suicidal tendencies is almost exclusively prescription antidepressants. Antidepressants are the second most prescribed drug class in the U.S. (second only to cholesterol-lowering drugs). More than 253 million prescriptions for antidepressants are filled nationwide every year.

Studies have repeatedly demonstrated, however, that antidepressants are no more effective and in some cases less effective than a placebo. A study in the January 2010 issue of JAMA concluded that there is little evidence that SSRIs (the widely-prescribed group of antidepressants that includes Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft) benefit people with mild to moderate depression. The researchers stated, "The magnitude of benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo... may be minimal or nonexistent, on average, in patients with mild or moderate symptoms." SSRIs were found to be only 33 percent effective, the same as a sugar pill – but with significantly more adverse side-effects, including violence or suicidal thoughts and actions.

And what else has happened since the 50s/60s?

Deinstitutionalisation, of these "patients". Drugs have become the perferred method of treatment, which may or may not always work with every individual.



If a drunk driver kills someone, or many, while drunk and behind the wheel, does it make sense to restrict, the "weapon" he/she used to kill, for everyone with access?

Or if a person has a health problem, that would not allow them to operate a motor vehicle safely, should he/she, be prohibited from driving?


IMO, access to the "weapon", is only one piece of the puzzle. And any "ban" can be perceived as a "punishment" on all, for the sins, or sickness, of a few.


And then we can go back to Soap's post and discuss whether secural or sacred authority is the answer, but IMO, that is a non starter with the "left". They are only interested in expanding secular control, through government.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Deinstitutionalisation, of these "patients". Drugs have become the perferred method of treatment,

I think one element you are missing in your theory is that the group growing increasingly violent and suicidal is young white males.

from what I have heard recently it is difficult if not impossible to get a teen/young adult committed,..seems most are taken to an emergency room medicated and sent home.. unless a crime or drugs are involved..

one local doctor said if a (mildly) troubled kid can kept out of trouble to about the age of 26 they will often never be in trouble for the rest of their lives.. but that from the age of 14 to 24 many will end up in jail or worse and can be incredibly dangerous. .
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
Deinstitutionalisation, of these "patients". Drugs have become the perferred method of treatment,

I think one element you are missing in your theory is that the group growing increasingly violent and suicidal is young white males.

from what I have heard recently it is difficult if not impossible to get a teen/young adult committed,..seems most are taken to an emergency room medicated and sent home.. unless a crime or drugs are involved..

one local doctor said if a (mildly) troubled kid can kept out of trouble to about the age of 26 they will often never be in trouble for the rest of their lives.. but that from the age of 14 to 24 many will end up in jail or worse and can be incredibly dangerous. .


14- 24 would correspond with their peak testerone, would it not?

I would think that certain drugs would also affect testerone levels, in certain genetic groups.

Racial groups, more than likely.

there are differences between races, and I don't think having a discussion on hormonal differences is racist, but some might.

How medications affect those hormonal, or chemical imbalances, in certain races should be discussed and studied.



one other thing I did not mention was the influence of video games and movies...

all can be contributing factors.

My point I guess, is that we have to look at all, or at least the many factors, we know of.

and not only the "least common denominator"
 

Steve

Well-known member
How medications affect those hormonal, or chemical imbalances, in certain races should be discussed and studied.

many parents seem to have spared the rod, instead opting for medications..

racially that may be a factor.. black families still tend to be more conservative in raising their children.. and often can not afford psychologists and the medications..

it is starting to sound like depression medication for teens and young adults is a common factor.. when the young adult goes off the meds it can be catastrophic..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
How medications affect those hormonal, or chemical imbalances, in certain races should be discussed and studied.

many parents seem to have spared the rod, instead opting for medications..

racially that may be a factor.. black families still tend to be more conservative in raising their children.. and often can not afford psychologists and the medications..

it is starting to sound like depression medication for teens and young adults is a common factor.. when the young adult goes off the meds it can be catastrophic..

It's not only when the young adult goes off the meds. Sometimes the meds. can exergerate the illness, that they are supposed to suppress
 

Frisco

Well-known member
So, is there anything that can be done with this age group? Is it a whacked out idea to make them enter the military to learn discipline, teamwork, and maybe find a sense of purpose? I believe what Mike Huckabee said in Soapweed's post is dead on, but how many generations will it take to get back on track?
To be honest, I'm scared to death of young white males. Even in our rural area we have a couple of "misfits" that I can see doing this.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
The Antipsychotic Prescribed To Adam Lanza Has A Troubled History All Its Own
Geoffrey Ingersoll | Dec. 18, 2012, 2:36 PM


Inside the piece though they report Adam Lanza's uncle said the boy was prescribed Fanapt, a controversial anti-psychotic medicine.

Fanapt was the subject of a Bloomberg report when it passed regulators, after previously getting the "nonapproval" stamp. Why wasn't it approved, you might ask?

There are many reasons, some of which have to do with competing entities in a competitive market.

The main cited reason for the rejection was that it caused severe heart problems in enough patients to cause a stir.

Maybe more importantly, though, Fanapt is one of a many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: that is, you know, inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior.

From Drugs.com, side effects of the drug Fanapt:

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FZ2oW0Ia
 

Steve

Well-known member
So, is there anything that can be done with this age group? Is it a whacked out idea to make them enter the military to learn discipline, teamwork, and maybe find a sense of purpose?

stop pampering them.. and let them fail and get disciplined a bit would go a long ways ..

and if we had a military that could afford to take the time and resources to straighten them out,.. it would do a world of good..
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
The Antipsychotic Prescribed To Adam Lanza Has A Troubled History All Its Own
Geoffrey Ingersoll | Dec. 18, 2012, 2:36 PM


Inside the piece though they report Adam Lanza's uncle said the boy was prescribed Fanapt, a controversial anti-psychotic medicine.

Fanapt was the subject of a Bloomberg report when it passed regulators, after previously getting the "nonapproval" stamp. Why wasn't it approved, you might ask?

There are many reasons, some of which have to do with competing entities in a competitive market.

The main cited reason for the rejection was that it caused severe heart problems in enough patients to cause a stir.

Maybe more importantly, though, Fanapt is one of a many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: that is, you know, inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior.

From Drugs.com, side effects of the drug Fanapt:

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FZ2oW0Ia

It’s almost certain that the original version of the article did mention this before being amended, and that the NY Mag piece was based on the original NY Daily News piece.

The reason for it being removed was likely the fact, as reported by Democratic Underground, that the claim that Lanza was on Fanapt was allegedly made not by Lanza’s real uncle, but by an Internet troll who reportedly inserts himself into every mass shooting story by posing as a family member of the killer.
http://www.infowars.com/fanapt-hoax-hides-real-connection-between-shooters-and-ssri-drugs/

not often infowars discounts a theory.. and they didn't say the theory was wrong,.. only the facts may be questionable false facts would lead them to lose credibility..

but I would think that thee may be more facts coming out and they should be discussed especially concerning medications and irrational behavior
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Steve said:
So, is there anything that can be done with this age group? Is it a whacked out idea to make them enter the military to learn discipline, teamwork, and maybe find a sense of purpose?

stop pampering them.. and let them fail and get disciplined a bit would go a long ways ..

and if we had a military that could afford to take the time and resources to straighten them out,.. it would do a world of good..

The media would rather sensationalize things and then watch for knee jerk reactions - (and tears).

Cowards pic soft targets. they never go after a swat team.
 
Top