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I Bet You All Hate This!!

Silver

Well-known member
I'm not sure why it would take that much money, but it sure seems like a good idea to me. We've had something like that here forever, called CTBS (Canadian Test of Basic Skills). It tells schools across the country how they compare with each other and, horror of horrors, how students compare with their peers.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
In Canada, it also allows us to know how the teachers are doing, in regards to teaching the curiculum.

I mentioned this awhile ago as a possible direction to take, you must have missed it Reader.

When that happens am I supposed to attack your intelligence, like you did Mike's?

It's becoming harder and harder to act properly here on Ranchers, Reader keeps changing the rules.
 

jigs

Well-known member
the money would be more wisely spent on getting the teachers thinned out that are not doing thier job. Tenure is something that needs tossed out the door. the kids are not dumb, just not motivated to learn.... poor scores are a direct reflection of crappy teachers.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Jigs, they are not allowed to think for themselves.

They are presented with the "truths", instead of the teachers keeping to facts, outlined in a curiculum.

If you speak out, with an original thought, you are chastized. Much the same as PB.

Can you imagine Reader teaching your kids? When they bring up the fallacy of man-made global warming, they would be ridiculed. Just because they do not believe what the teacher believes.

And then when parents bring it up as an item of concern, she would say.

Poor cute lil Jigs, so maligned and neglected
 

jodywy

Well-known member
jigs said:
the money would be more wisely spent on getting the teachers thinned out that are not doing thier job. Tenure is something that needs tossed out the door. the kids are not dumb, just not motivated to learn.... poor scores are a direct reflection of crappy teachers.
But I know some upper grade school and middle school teachers (usually a male)that get all the probem students , Thus even though they get more out of those students then other teachers thier class scoure will be lower, then the teacher that gets fewer problem students so you neecd a factor to make up for them in your scores. Yes there are crappy teachers and more offten then not they don't get the bad kids in class.
 

Mike

Well-known member
It's not wrong to have some sort of national standard, but it wrong to dictate to the states what test or methods can be used in measuring a student's progress.

I say shut down the U.S. Dept of Education, lock the doors and let each state run their own system.

If one does not like the way his state runs the system, you can always get involved to change it or move. A national system does not afford those options. You're stuck with what you get. :roll:
 

MsSage

Well-known member
Reader when is the LAST time you were in a classroom?
Im sorry when you talk to GOOD teachers they will tell you that the "state tests" do not measure anything BUT if the teacher is teaching the test......NOT if the children are learning how to learn.
I had some students who got the highest score on the test the year before BUT could not think on their own....If you did not tell them what color to make the flower they were stumped.
Children are NOT being taught how to learn and where to look to find answers ...THAT is what school is suppose to be about NOT TEACHING A TEST.
 

TSR

Well-known member
jodywy said:
jigs said:
the money would be more wisely spent on getting the teachers thinned out that are not doing thier job. Tenure is something that needs tossed out the door. the kids are not dumb, just not motivated to learn.... poor scores are a direct reflection of crappy teachers.
But I know some upper grade school and middle school teachers (usually a male)that get all the probem students , Thus even though they get more out of those students then other teachers thier class scoure will be lower, then the teacher that gets fewer problem students so you neecd a factor to make up for them in your scores. Yes there are crappy teachers and more offten then not they don't get the bad kids in class.

Good observation there Jody could be the principal has his favorites with respect to teachers in his school. I have seen this myself, the principal's deer hunting buddy usually got the best group.

Jigs, regarding tenure, in our state you don't get tenure until you have been rehired for the fourth year. This seems to me to be plenty of time to evaluate a teacher. You can still be dismissed even with tenure but you get the right to heard in a formal setting and defend yourself if you choose. Without tenure every new superintendent could get all his supporters' kids jobs, getting rid of anyone he wants for any reason he wants. Tenure just gives a teacher "some" degree of job security.

BTW anybody here have that sure-fire, fail-proof method of motivation for students across the entire spectrum just put it in print, you'll become a millionaire.
 

Yanuck

Well-known member
I will agree there are crappy teachers, I had a few for sure, but I also believe that kids need help and support at home with school work. I also think that if kids had a little more structure and discipline in their lives at home, it would help their learning abilities immensely!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Yanuck said:
I will agree there are crappy teachers, I had a few for sure, but I also believe that kids need help and support at home with school work. I also think that if kids had a little more structure and discipline in their lives at home, it would help their learning abilities immensely!

I agree! When I look at a select group of kids that go to school with my kids and I know a little about their family situation it seems the common denominator of bad grades and problems in school is more related to the parents degree of participation than the teachers. They all have the same teachers, but they have different parents and home structure.

Even though I believe the most blame is at home, I do realize some issues with the system also. My concern is that my straight A son is not getting the degree of education that would push him, not that my straight C nephew is not getting a good enough education seeing how they have same exact teachers.

Biggest difference in my son and nephew is my nephew gets no support from home and has a missing father from his life. His mother did not read to him, teach him colors or how to count prior to kindergarten etc.........
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Yanuck said:
I will agree there are crappy teachers, I had a few for sure, but I also believe that kids need help and support at home with school work. I also think that if kids had a little more structure and discipline in their lives at home, it would help their learning abilities immensely!

I agree! When I look at a select group of kids that go to school with my kids and I know a little about their family situation it seems the common denominator of bad grades and problems in school is more related to the parents degree of participation than the teachers. They all have the same teachers, but they have different parents and home structure.

Even though I believe the most blame is at home, I do realize some issues with the system also. My concern is that my straight A son is not getting the degree of education that would push him, not that my straight C nephew is not getting a good enough education seeing how they have same exact teachers.

Biggest difference in my son and nephew is my nephew gets no support from home and has a missing father from his life. His mother did not read to him, teach him colors or how to count prior to kindergarten etc.........

Well now I find myself agreeing with Aplus for a change. :shock:
 

Yanuck

Well-known member
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
Yanuck said:
I will agree there are crappy teachers, I had a few for sure, but I also believe that kids need help and support at home with school work. I also think that if kids had a little more structure and discipline in their lives at home, it would help their learning abilities immensely!

I agree! When I look at a select group of kids that go to school with my kids and I know a little about their family situation it seems the common denominator of bad grades and problems in school is more related to the parents degree of participation than the teachers. They all have the same teachers, but they have different parents and home structure.

Even though I believe the most blame is at home, I do realize some issues with the system also. My concern is that my straight A son is not getting the degree of education that would push him, not that my straight C nephew is not getting a good enough education seeing how they have same exact teachers.

Biggest difference in my son and nephew is my nephew gets no support from home and has a missing father from his life. His mother did not read to him, teach him colors or how to count prior to kindergarten etc.........

Well now I find myself agreeing with Aplus for a change. :shock:

breathe in, breathe out...... :lol: :lol: :p
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I agree that home life is very important; probably THE most important.

The teachers I talk with are discouraged with the attitudes of students and parents. I fear the day that good teachers won't teach because of this
bad attitude.

Remember when you got in trouble at school and you got in more
trouble when you got home? Thats not the way it is today!

And the kids that are good in sports, well, they walk on water...
I'm real tired of paying for that.
 

Cal

Well-known member
I'm proud of our teenager for getting 4.0 straight through, but the pre-algebra class he was in this year was done without a text book and it just didn't seem like help was available at the school, as well as the teacher being about half lost. My wife and he made the 250 mile round trip quite a number of times to the Sylvan Learning Center and paid the $40 / hour to get the help he needed, which was very good. I know pre-algebra should be a real basic class, but everything was presented in such a strange manner, and like I said, with no text book for reference. If we hadn't been able to tap into that outside help I don't think the outcome would have been nearly as good....and will do so again if need be.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Good for you Cal. I think my grandson needs some help from the Sylvan Learning Center, but so far my idea has fallen on deaf ears.

I have heard so much good about Sylvan Learning Center.
Again, I applaud you and your wife for making the extra effort.
 

Steve

Well-known member
random thoughts..
300 million to develop a test?.. and then how much to implement it? and administer it?
not sure how far the money will really help in bettering the education of children across the board... and after seeing no child left behind which sounded good,.. but was never really much more then testing so really this is just another Bush idea "repackaged"

I feel that the closer to the child the money is spent.. the better.. and this test is money spent at a great distance from a classroom..

the government can't force parents to be involved but some schools do a great job of demanding that involvement,,, but they are usually private/Parochial, or charter schools... so save the testing money and fund vouchers..
 

Larrry

Well-known member
Just more and more of society turning their kids over to the government for their education. We are turning the govermnet into parents and by gosh they can never be the parent that a PARENT is.
Fh as far as athletes go all my kids were very good athletes and very good students. They graduated at the top of their class. One thing that some of their coaches did was when the kids showed up to practice is they would first check with the kids to see how their classes were going. If they were having trouble in class they had to sit there and study during practice. Just a passing grade did not satisfy these coaches, they expected more even if it meant the coach tutoring after practice.
 

Twister Frost

Well-known member
jigs said:
the money would be more wisely spent on getting the teachers thinned out that are not doing thier job. Tenure is something that needs tossed out the door. the kids are not dumb, just not motivated to learn.... poor scores are a direct reflection of crappy teachers.

I do understand what you are trying to say, but I also take issue with the idea that teachers are the problem. You have no idea what motivates the kids today, and it is not learning. Let's say that texting and social networking are more important than doing homework or paying attention in class. Rules mean nothing to most of them--the time of 'getting in trouble at school meant twice as much trouble at home' is over. Parents do not see a problem with students surfing the Internet or texting in class; thus, the kids reflect that in the classroom, also. I realize testing is a tool of accountability for teachers--so when will it also be used as a tool of accountability for students? If they do not do well, and those standards and benchmarks have been taught, should the student not spend another year as a freshman, sophomore, junior, or senior?
As for the issue of tenure, tenure is not a badge of protection. It usually is a matter of the administration not doing his/her/their job and documenting problems. Do not forget, there are not a lot of people lining up for jobs in education, and in the last twenty years we have struggled to fill positions.
Just my two-cents' worth!
 

Yanuck

Well-known member
Twister Frost said:
jigs said:
the money would be more wisely spent on getting the teachers thinned out that are not doing thier job. Tenure is something that needs tossed out the door. the kids are not dumb, just not motivated to learn.... poor scores are a direct reflection of crappy teachers.

I do understand what you are trying to say, but I also take issue with the idea that teachers are the problem. You have no idea what motivates the kids today, and it is not learning. Let's say that texting and social networking are more important than doing homework or paying attention in class. Rules mean nothing to most of them--the time of 'getting in trouble at school meant twice as much trouble at home' is over. Parents do not see a problem with students surfing the Internet or texting in class; thus, the kids reflect that in the classroom, also. I realize testing is a tool of accountability for teachers--so when will it also be used as a tool of accountability for students? If they do not do well, and those standards and benchmarks have been taught, should the student not spend another year as a freshman, sophomore, junior, or senior?
As for the issue of tenure, tenure is not a badge of protection. It usually is a matter of the administration not doing his/her/their job and documenting problems. Do not forget, there are not a lot of people lining up for jobs in education, and in the last twenty years we have struggled to fill positions.
Just my two-cents' worth!

good post :)
 
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