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Red Robin said:
I'm not voting for McCain. He's not a candidate worthy of my vote.
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But he is the lesser of the evils. Perhaps he will pick a good choice for VP. Then we can hope he goes tits up while in office and all will be right with the world.

He leaves a bad taste in my mouth, too.

If Bama Lama Ding Dong gets it, he won't finish his term before he gets Kennedy'd.
 
Red Robin
I'm not voting for McCain. He's not a candidate worthy of my vote.
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I have not decided who to vote for in the general elction either..

I recieved a call from the RNC.. asking for money... after I stopped laughing, the poor lady on the other end wanted to confrim that I was a republican.. I quickly told her that when a republican wins the republican nomination give me a call ...


BTW:..What was the straw that broke you away from the party faithful?
 
Steve:

I recieved a call from the RNC.. asking for money... after I stopped laughing, the poor lady on the other end wanted to confrim that I was a republican.. I quickly told her that when a republican wins the republican nomination give me a call ...
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We used to donate, until things have gone to heck in a hand basket. We tell RNC as soon as the party starts believing and acting like Republicans we'll start donating again...then we hang up :x
 
Red Robyn,

Why???

If anyone has any morals, (I know you do), Both Obama and Hillary need to be beat.(especially Obama) Their stand on abortion is wrong. - Killing horses needs to be banned, but killing babies is alright-, that makes no sense at all. That is how the devil thinks and wants us all to think as well. Obama voted to keep Dr's away from babies who live through an abortion, let them suffer and die in a garbage can. We need every vote we can get to get McCain in and keep these 2 out.
 
I am an Independent-lean Libertarian which generally means socially liberal-tolerant/fiscally conservative/constitutionally conservative-- but I voted for George Bush, who was a huge dissapointment with his "drunken sailor" attitude towards spending on foreign nation building and globalist trade putting the economy near imploding... GW sounded good when he was running and had some good ideas/promises- but carried thru on none of those campaign promises...

Putting the interests of main street USA, the working man, US products, and small business at the bottom of his priorities...His refusal to close our border from foreign invaders was only one of hundreds of laws he refused to enforce in bowing to the wishes of his elite corporate buddies..He has made me very leery of the credibility of the Republican Party right now....

But McCain is plumb downright scarey... If he gets in there, we won't have any economy left to worry about- he'll have us bomb, bomb, bomb, bombing Iran- have us in a full blown World War, which he wouln't care if it lasted 100 years...He says he will refuse to talk to world leaders if he doesn't believe the same as they do-just as GW has done....He's a second George Bush and echoing Bush's policies on immigration, trade, foreign policy, warmongering, etc-- -only McCains 25 years older- a crotchetty temper driven old man with one foot in the grave and the second on a banana peel- just craving to get his finger on the nuclear button....God help us if he slips.... :(

No way on this Gods green earth could I vote for Hillary...

And I'm not sure about Obama- too liberal on a lot of ideas- but has actually many times stated his willingness to work bipartisanly to help this country move and change from the direction GW was taking it-- and it needs it...Even the Repub cult leader Newt agrees with that....

Obamas strongest factor to me is that he is the youngest and the least experienced in D.C politics- and all the slime and corruption and scandal that every politician gets after being there a few years.......
 
BRG said:
Red Robyn,

Why???

If anyone has any morals, (I know you do), Both Obama and Hillary need to be beat.(especially Obama) Their stand on abortion is wrong. - Killing horses needs to be banned, but killing babies is alright-, that makes no sense at all. That is how the devil thinks and wants us all to think as well. Obama voted to keep Dr's away from babies who live through an abortion, let them suffer and die in a garbage can. We need every vote we can get to get McCain in and keep these 2 out.
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You are correct BRG. I hate abortion. It's the worst evil our nation has ever committed. My problem lies in how liberal McCain is. He's for spending money to combat global warming (which is a farce). He's for amnesty. He's accepted money from the worst of the worst people on earth. He's constantly voted more liberal than conservative on almost every issue. My gut wants to beat the abortionists but I know that if McCain wins, we'll lose the next election because he'll be worse than Bush when it comes to establishing conservative ideas. Not only will we lose the next election but we'll lose the next several. If Ford had of beat Carter, we would have took a beating on conservative ideas for decades. As it turned out Carter was such a sorry excuse for a president that Regan was elected in a land slide and he had plenty of room to work. Everyone wanted the opposite of what Peanut Carter stood for. I think Obama will be worse. After 4 years of him, the world will be on a platter for the next conservative candidate. Most of all, I just can't bend my principals to vote for McCain. I appreciate his sacrifice as a POW but other than that, he's not for me. I'm out. I hope a conservative runs as an independent so those like me can have a voice of opposition that is recognized.
 
BRG said:
Red Robyn,

Why???

If anyone has any morals, (I know you do), Both Obama and Hillary need to be beat.(especially Obama) Their stand on abortion is wrong. - Killing horses needs to be banned, but killing babies is alright-, that makes no sense at all. That is how the devil thinks and wants us all to think as well. Obama voted to keep Dr's away from babies who live through an abortion, let them suffer and die in a garbage can. We need every vote we can get to get McCain in and keep these 2 out.
Click to expand...
You are correct BRG. I hate abortion. It's the worst evil our nation has ever committed. My problem lies in how liberal McCain is. He's for spending money to combat global warming (which is a farce). He's for amnesty. He's accepted money from the worst of the worst people on earth. He's constantly voted more liberal than conservative on almost every issue. My gut wants to beat the abortionists but I know that if McCain wins, we'll lose the next election because he'll be worse than Bush when it comes to establishing conservative ideas. Not only will we lose the next election but we'll lose the next several. If Ford had of beat Carter, we would have took a beating on conservative ideas for decades. As it turned out Carter was such a sorry excuse for a president that Regan was elected in a land slide and he had plenty of room to work. Everyone wanted the opposite of what Peanut Carter stood for. I think Obama will be worse. After 4 years of him, the world will be on a platter for the next conservative candidate. Most of all, I just can't bend my principals to vote for McCain. I appreciate his sacrifice as a POW but other than that, he's not for me. I'm out. I hope a conservative runs as an independent so those like me can have a voice of opposition that is recognized. McCain is no conservative. My real concern is that after one term of McCain, the liberals will have the bit between their teeth for the next 2 or 3 presidential elections anyway. I sure don't think our country can stand that. One term will all but destroy us with either hillary or obama but it's better than 3 or 4 terms in a few years.
 
jigs said:
Loomixdude, I like the way you think!
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I would like to remind you fellows that threats, even veiled threats, even jokingly, against presidential candidates is a felony and don't think that someone in the Secret Service does not check out these forums. Remember bush has warrantless spying going on on American citizens.
 
BRG said:
Red Robyn,

Why???

If anyone has any morals, (I know you do), Both Obama and Hillary need to be beat.(especially Obama) Their stand on abortion is wrong. - Killing horses needs to be banned, but killing babies is alright-, that makes no sense at all. That is how the devil thinks and wants us all to think as well. Obama voted to keep Dr's away from babies who live through an abortion, let them suffer and die in a garbage can. We need every vote we can get to get McCain in and keep these 2 out.
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You really do need to read WHY he voted against that bill instead of just listening to the rightwing swiftboat line.
 
Oldtimer said:
Obamas strongest factor to me is that he is the youngest and the least experienced in D.C politics- and all the slime and corruption and scandal that every politician gets after being there a few years.......
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This is one of the biggest points that need to be made. Obama is NOT a Washington insider. Certainly not as entrenched as McCain, and Hillary has been in the loop there for nearly two decades......long enough to know all the ins and outs of partisanship.

Whoever gets the Whitehouse, will require the cooperation of both sides of the aisles in Congress. Otherwise the current messes the all Republican Washington has gotten us in will overwhelm us and history will be able to mark the end of the American Empire and the assent of China as being November 2, 2000.

It is going to take both houses and both parties to achieve success in removing us from the middle east, in creating a universal health care plan, in securing our borders, in establishing some sort of homeland security, revive the value of the dollar, return industry to the US, and recreate an American middle class. Neither Hillary nor John can do it. Obama might be able to, and if not, he can set the ground work for the next president (Newt, perhaps?) so it can be accomplished in the not too distant future.
 
Oldtimer said:
Obamas strongest factor to me is that he is the youngest and the least experienced in D.C politics- and all the slime and corruption and scandal that every politician gets after being there a few years.......
Click to expand...
How about his house deal? Sounds like a bargain. You don't think there's anything slimy or corrupt about that?

senator Barack Obama may have violated federal law




Dear Mr. Nucci:

I am writing to you to suggest a possible criminal investigation of U. S. senator Barack Obama.

I have been engaged in fighting official corruption in Illinois since I was a law student at the University of Illinois, over forty (40) years.

I am in the process of organizing I-CAN (Illinois-Corruption Action Now) to continue the fight against corruption. I believe the modern remnants of the Chicago Crime Syndicate continue to seek to penetrate legitimate state offices and businesses. I have previously filed a complaint directing your attention to very suspicious links involving tens of millions of dollars in questionable "loans" between State Treasurer-elect Alexi Giannoulias' Broadway Bank and an organized crime figure.

Mr. Tony Rezko is under indictment in Illinois for seeking to extort money from potential state vendors. Rezko is a close associate of Governor Rod Blagojevich and Rezko has done "real estate business" with Blagojevich's wife, Patti Blagojevich.

Corruption, of course, involves two different approaches: (i) extorting/taking money from people, and (ii) paying money or giving tangible benefits to public officials to obtain access or influence. Sometimes people buy influence for an immediate project or need, and sometimes they just buy influence to bank it or to project the aura of access and influence in their business dealings. My complaint against Senator Obama falls into the second category.

Before being elected to the U. S. Senate, Mr. Obama served in the Illinois state senate. The Illinois senate has been a cesspool of corruption for decades. Back in the 1960's they censured a member, Senator Paul Simon (then serving as a state senator), for being too honest and exposing senate corruption. Matters have not changed much.

Mr. Obama was well aware of the culture and climate of corruption when he began his business dealings with Mr. Rezko.

Reduced to its essentials, Obama and Rezko engaged in a structured real estate transaction where they coordinated the purchases of adjacent parcels of real estate. Rezko claims he paid "full market price" and Obama apparently received a "discount" of several hundred thousand dollars for his parcel. Rezko then improved his parcel to benefit Obama.

Obama recently said these related and structured transactions were a "mistake." With all due respect I believe they were a federal crime and constituted a conspiracy.

I believe a grand jury could find a pattern of criminal activity. Instead of handing cash to Obama, Rezko handed Obama a preferential price for property. This is the same form of "honest graft" and preferential treatment that sent former Illinois Governor Otto Kerner to jail over 30 years ago, see United States v. Isaacs, 493 F.2d 1124 (7th Cir. 1974).

Taken in isolation, the Obama episode might be explainable, but I doubt it. Why would Rezko be buying land next to Obama and coordinating his actions with Obama if not to confer a benefit on Obama? Why?

More importantly, there appears to be a pattern of similar influence peddling by Mr. Rezko. The Chicago Sun-Times recently reported that Mr. Rezko, around the same general period he was wheeling with Obama, also provided a preferential price for a property purchase by U. S. Representative Luis Gutierrez. There is a pattern here. Instead of transferring cash to buy influence, Rezko was engaging in structured property transactions and preferential treatment of public officials to confer significant financial benefits on them, far above the legal limits of any legitimate political contribution permitted by federal law.

Most respectfully, I would urge you to consider allowing a grand jury to examine this series of suspicious transactions. I am sending a letter to the foreperson of the grand jury, through the U. S. Attorney's office, seeking to testify as an expert witness in this matter if the grand jury wishes to pursue this investigation.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.



Respectfully submitted,





ANDY MARTIN

AM:sp
 
Red Robin said:
Oldtimer said:
Obamas strongest factor to me is that he is the youngest and the least experienced in D.C politics- and all the slime and corruption and scandal that every politician gets after being there a few years.......
Click to expand...
How about his house deal? Sounds like a bargain. You don't think there's anything slimy or corrupt about that?

senator Barack Obama may have violated federal law




Dear Mr. Nucci:

I am writing to you to suggest a possible criminal investigation of U. S. senator Barack Obama.

I have been engaged in fighting official corruption in Illinois since I was a law student at the University of Illinois, over forty (40) years.

I am in the process of organizing I-CAN (Illinois-Corruption Action Now) to continue the fight against corruption. I believe the modern remnants of the Chicago Crime Syndicate continue to seek to penetrate legitimate state offices and businesses. I have previously filed a complaint directing your attention to very suspicious links involving tens of millions of dollars in questionable "loans" between State Treasurer-elect Alexi Giannoulias' Broadway Bank and an organized crime figure.

Mr. Tony Rezko is under indictment in Illinois for seeking to extort money from potential state vendors. Rezko is a close associate of Governor Rod Blagojevich and Rezko has done "real estate business" with Blagojevich's wife, Patti Blagojevich.

Corruption, of course, involves two different approaches: (i) extorting/taking money from people, and (ii) paying money or giving tangible benefits to public officials to obtain access or influence. Sometimes people buy influence for an immediate project or need, and sometimes they just buy influence to bank it or to project the aura of access and influence in their business dealings. My complaint against Senator Obama falls into the second category.

Before being elected to the U. S. Senate, Mr. Obama served in the Illinois state senate. The Illinois senate has been a cesspool of corruption for decades. Back in the 1960's they censured a member, Senator Paul Simon (then serving as a state senator), for being too honest and exposing senate corruption. Matters have not changed much.

Mr. Obama was well aware of the culture and climate of corruption when he began his business dealings with Mr. Rezko.

Reduced to its essentials, Obama and Rezko engaged in a structured real estate transaction where they coordinated the purchases of adjacent parcels of real estate. Rezko claims he paid "full market price" and Obama apparently received a "discount" of several hundred thousand dollars for his parcel. Rezko then improved his parcel to benefit Obama.

Obama recently said these related and structured transactions were a "mistake." With all due respect I believe they were a federal crime and constituted a conspiracy.

I believe a grand jury could find a pattern of criminal activity. Instead of handing cash to Obama, Rezko handed Obama a preferential price for property. This is the same form of "honest graft" and preferential treatment that sent former Illinois Governor Otto Kerner to jail over 30 years ago, see United States v. Isaacs, 493 F.2d 1124 (7th Cir. 1974).

Taken in isolation, the Obama episode might be explainable, but I doubt it. Why would Rezko be buying land next to Obama and coordinating his actions with Obama if not to confer a benefit on Obama? Why?

More importantly, there appears to be a pattern of similar influence peddling by Mr. Rezko. The Chicago Sun-Times recently reported that Mr. Rezko, around the same general period he was wheeling with Obama, also provided a preferential price for a property purchase by U. S. Representative Luis Gutierrez. There is a pattern here. Instead of transferring cash to buy influence, Rezko was engaging in structured property transactions and preferential treatment of public officials to confer significant financial benefits on them, far above the legal limits of any legitimate political contribution permitted by federal law.

Most respectfully, I would urge you to consider allowing a grand jury to examine this series of suspicious transactions. I am sending a letter to the foreperson of the grand jury, through the U. S. Attorney's office, seeking to testify as an expert witness in this matter if the grand jury wishes to pursue this investigation.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.



Respectfully submitted,





ANDY MARTIN

AM:sp
Click to expand...

I'm sure if there was substance there- Hillary would have dug it out and have him in prison by now as desperate as she has gotten...

Its one of the things the pundits have brought up several times- that Obama must be pretty squeaky clean, or done a fantastic job covering it up- because Hillary just hasn't been able to get the normal type sleaze ammunition she usually does.....

Obama's campaign claims, that like Edwards and unlike Hillary and McCain, he has taken no Corporate/Industry Interests campaign donations- and that the majority of the huge amount of money they raised comes from $25 to $250 donations from individuals.....Which again I have not been able to see Hillary's group counteract....
 

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