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I have a question.

quickdraw

Well-known member
No!
Nonothing this is not a poll :D :D
My question is!

If as some of you claim this war is so unpopular with the troops and those that are being sent back for another tour, WHY are they not heading for Canada as those protesting the war in NAM did?
Heck the liberals control everything except the White House, it should be easy for those deserting to be pardoned later!

Could it be that most really believe they are doing the right thing?

Would some of you liberals please explain that to me?
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
quickdraw said:
Could it be that most really believe they are doing the right thing?
the ARE doing the right thing. For the most part, they obey their orders and do their job in as difficult a situation as has ever existed in the history of military action.......being a police force in a civil war is thankless, it is dangerous, and it is futile. And when you see a kid who is hungry and you give him food and he smiles his thanks, you know that at least for that moment, what you did was worth it.

It is the leadership that is giving them the worng orders. squandering our soldiers in a futile nation building exercise is nothing short of criminal.
 

quickdraw

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
quickdraw said:
Could it be that most really believe they are doing the right thing?
the ARE doing the right thing. For the most part, they obey their orders and do their job in as difficult a situation as has ever existed in the history of military action.......being a police force in a civil war is thankless, it is dangerous, and it is futile. And when you see a kid who is hungry and you give him food and he smiles his thanks, you know that at least for that moment, what you did was worth it.

It is the leadership that is giving them the worng orders. squandering our soldiers in a futile nation building exercise is nothing short of criminal.

Goodpasture you did not answer the question!

Go back and re read the real question! Take a moment to think and then respond!
 

azcowpuncher

Well-known member
Any man caught runnin away should be shot like the worthless coward dog they are . They need to catch all them draft dodgers from vietnam and line them up and let the vietnam vets shoot them firing squad style .
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
quickdraw said:
Goodpasture said:
quickdraw said:
Could it be that most really believe they are doing the right thing?
They ARE doing the right thing.

Goodpasture you did not answer the question!

Go back and re read the real question! Take a moment to think and then respond!
You had three question marks.
1) Why are they not going to Canada?
2) Do they think they are doing the right thing?
3) Would a liberal explain it to you?

1) and 2)

They are not going to Canada for two reasons. 1st Canada signed a treaty years ago where they will deport deserters. As we no long have a draft, that question is moot. 2nd, they are doing the right thing and they believe it. The right thing for a soldier to do is to obey orders. They are doing that.

3)

I'm a liberal and I just explained it to you for the second time, although the second time was more detailed and required you to infer less.....I apologize. In the future I will provide as detailed an explanation as I would if I were supplying it to elementary aged children.

As an editorial comment, I suggested that while the soldiers are doing what they believe is right by following orders, it is our leadership that is failing them and asking them to do things that are wrong.
 

Tumbleweed

Well-known member
quickdraw said:
No!
Nonothing this is not a poll :D :D
My question is!

If as some of you claim this war is so unpopular with the troops and those that are being sent back for another tour, WHY are they not heading for Canada as those protesting the war in NAM did?
Heck the liberals control everything except the White House, it should be easy for those deserting to be pardoned later!

Could it be that most really believe they are doing the right thing?

Would some of you liberals please explain that to me?

quickdraw I don't think this is the answer you're looking for about deserting but it may shed some light on why some of the soldiers are questioning being there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/28/world/middleeast/28delta.html?ex=1186545600&en=af22cbd8afe765d6&ei=5070


BAGHDAD — Staff Sgt. David Safstrom does not regret his previous tours in Iraq, not even a difficult second stint when two comrades were killed while trying to capture insurgents.

“In Mosul, in 2003, it felt like we were making the city a better place,” he said. “There was no sectarian violence, Saddam was gone, we were tracking down the bad guys. It felt awesome.”

But now on his third deployment in Iraq, he is no longer a believer in the mission. The pivotal moment came, he says, this February when soldiers killed a man setting a roadside bomb. When they searched the bomber’s body, they found identification showing him to be a sergeant in the Iraqi Army.

“I thought: ‘What are we doing here? Why are we still here?’ ” said Sergeant Safstrom, a member of Delta Company of the First Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry, 82nd Airborne Division. “We’re helping guys that are trying to kill us. We help them in the day. They turn around at night and try to kill us.”

His views are echoed by most of his fellow soldiers in Delta Company, renowned for its aggressiveness.

A small minority of Delta Company soldiers — the younger, more recent enlistees in particular — seem to still wholeheartedly support the war. Others are ambivalent, torn between fear of losing more friends in battle, longing for their families and a desire to complete their mission.

With few reliable surveys of soldiers’ attitudes, it is impossible to simply extrapolate from the small number of soldiers in the company. But in interviews with more than a dozen soldiers in this 83-man unit over a one-week period, most said they were disillusioned by repeated deployments, by what they saw as the abysmal performance of Iraqi security forces and by a conflict that they considered a civil war, one they had no ability to stop.

They had seen shadowy militia commanders installed as Iraqi Army officers, they said, had come under increasing attack from roadside bombs — planted within sight of Iraqi Army checkpoints — and had fought against Iraqi soldiers who they thought were their allies.

“In 2003, 2004, 100 percent of the soldiers wanted to be here, to fight this war,” said Sgt. First Class David Moore, a self-described “conservative Texas Republican” and platoon sergeant who strongly advocates an American withdrawal. “Now, 95 percent of my platoon agrees with me.”

It is not a question of loyalty, the soldiers insist. Sergeant Safstrom, for example, comes from a thoroughly military family. His mother and father have served in the armed forces, as have his three sisters, one brother and several uncles. One week after the Sept. 11 attacks, he walked into a recruiter’s office and joined the Army.

“You guys want to start a fight in my backyard, I got something for you,” he recalls thinking at the time.

But in Sergeant Safstrom’s view, the American presence is futile. “If we stayed here for 5, even 10 more years, the day we leave here these guys will go crazy,” he said. “It would go straight into a civil war. That’s how it feels, like we’re putting a Band-Aid on this country until we leave here.”

Their many deployments have added to the strain. After spending six months in Iraq, the soldiers of Delta Company had been home for only 24 hours last December when the news came. “Change your plans,” they recall being told. “We’re going back to Iraq.”

Nineteen days later, just after Christmas, Capt. Douglas Rogers and the men of Delta Company were on their way to Kadhimiya, a Shiite enclave of about 300,000 people. As part of the so-called surge of American troops, their primary mission was to maintain stability in the area and prepare the Iraqi Army and the police to take control of the neighborhood.

“I thought it would not be long before we could just stay on our base and act as a quick-reaction force,” said the barrel-chested Captain Rogers of San Antonio. “The Iraqi security forces would step up.”

It has not worked out that way. Still, Captain Rogers says their mission in Kadhimiya has been “an amazing success.”

“We’ve captured 4 of the top 10 most-wanted guys in this area,” he said. And the streets of Kadhimiya are filled with shoppers and the stores are open, he said, a rarity in Baghdad due partly to Delta Company’s patrols.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Can I ask one question?.What did the Usa gain from the vietnam war? ..its just an honest question...I am not trying to start anything.I just honestly dont know what was gained..
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
nonothing said:
Can I ask one question?.What did the Usa gain from the vietnam war? ..its just an honest question...I am not trying to start anything.I just honestly dont know what was gained..
I got laid in Oolongapo, Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Saigon, and Kao Shung. Met family in Honolulu. I learned to sleep standing up. I learned there is nothing glamorous or fun about killing.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
nonothing said:
Can I ask one question?.What did the Usa gain from the vietnam war? ..its just an honest question...I am not trying to start anything.I just honestly dont know what was gained..
I got laid in Oolongapo, Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Saigon, and Kao Shung. Met family in Honolulu. I learned to sleep standing up. I learned there is nothing glamorous or fun about killing.
Was this while you were supposedly a missionary?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Goodpasture said:
nonothing said:
Can I ask one question?.What did the Usa gain from the vietnam war? ..its just an honest question...I am not trying to start anything.I just honestly dont know what was gained..
I got laid in Oolongapo, Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Saigon, and Kao Shung. Met family in Honolulu. I learned to sleep standing up. I learned there is nothing glamorous or fun about killing.
Was this while you were supposedly a missionary?



Well..how do you think they make more little missionaries??? DUH!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


Get out yer Bible...it's full of that ' begetting' and such!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Goodpasture said:
[I got laid in Oolongapo, Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Saigon, and Kao Shung. quote]Was this while you were supposedly a missionary?

That sure tells me what kind of a person you are to BRAG about having sexual relations in those cities,.
I am sure they were all upright church going ladies as well and simply went astray by your overpowering preaching!
OR was it the fact you had a few bucks to pass onto them to support their habits?????
Yep certianally tells me a lot about your morals. :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
kolanuraven said:
Well..how do you think they make more little missionaries??? DUH!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


Get out yer Bible...it's full of that ' begetting' and such!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yep-- the fleet has been known to do an awful lot of that "begetting".... :wink:
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Goodpasture said:
nonothing said:
Can I ask one question?.What did the Usa gain from the vietnam war? ..its just an honest question...I am not trying to start anything.I just honestly dont know what was gained..
I got laid in Oolongapo, Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Saigon, and Kao Shung. Met family in Honolulu. I learned to sleep standing up. I learned there is nothing glamorous or fun about killing.
Was this while you were supposedly a missionary?
No, it was when I was supposedly drawing combat pay and saving the world from communism. My missionary days came after I discovered helping people was more fun than shooting them.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
hopalong said:
Red Robin said:
Goodpasture said:
[I got laid in Oolongapo, Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Saigon, and Kao Shung. quote]Was this while you were supposedly a missionary?

That sure tells me what kind of a person you are to BRAG about having sexual relations in those cities,.I am sure they were all upright church going ladies as well and simply went astray by your overpowering preaching!
OR was it the fact you had a few bucks to pass onto them to support their habits?????
Yep certianally tells me a lot about your morals. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Let's see, what does this tell us, hmmmmmmm....hopalong must not've gotten ' any'!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
hopalong said:
Yep certianally tells me a lot about your morals. :roll: :roll: :roll:
I never claimed to be more moral than anyone else.

Reminds me of the story about the old man who took his son aside, and said: "Son, until I married your mother, I never even kissed a girl. Are you gonna be able to say that when you're my age?" To which the son replies: "Yes did, dad, I will. Just not with such a straight face."

Tell you what hoppy, take your pseudo-morality and eff yourself with it, cause any man who doesn't have the cajones to face the fact that he is prone to temptation and that once in a while gives in, isn't much of a man.

There is an old adage, that if you want a seed to grow and be productive, you first have to put it in dirt. So my take on this is that either, 1) you are a hypocrite and got "dirty" but won't face up to the truth, 2) you are a weenie and never did anything worth while, or 3) you are a girl.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Goodpasture said:
hopalong said:
Yep certianally tells me a lot about your morals. :roll: :roll: :roll:
I never claimed to be more moral than anyone else.

Reminds me of the story about the old man who took his son aside, and said: "Son, until I married your mother, I never even kissed a girl. Are you gonna be able to say that when you're my age?" To which the son replies: "Yes did, dad, I will. Just not with such a straight face."

Tell you what hoppy, take your pseudo-morality and eff yourself with it, cause any man who doesn't have the cajones to face the fact that he is prone to temptation and that once in a while gives in, isn't much of a man.

There is an old adage, that if you want a seed to grow and be productive, you first have to put it in dirt. So my take on this is that either, 1) you are a hypocrite and got "dirty" but won't face up to the truth, 2) you are a weenie and never did anything worth while, or 3) you are a girl.


Whoa buddy, don't insult us girls here!!! :lol: :lol:
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Goodpasture said:
hopalong said:
Yep certianally tells me a lot about your morals. :roll: :roll: :roll:
I never claimed to be more moral than anyone else.

Reminds me of the story about the old man who took his son aside, and said: "Son, until I married your mother, I never even kissed a girl. Are you gonna be able to say that when you're my age?" To which the son replies: "Yes did, dad, I will. Just not with such a straight face."

Tell you what hoppy, take your pseudo-morality and eff yourself with it, cause any man who doesn't have the cajones to face the fact that he is prone to temptation and that once in a while gives in, isn't much of a man.

There is an old adage, that if you want a seed to grow and be productive, you first have to put it in dirt. So my take on this is that either, 1) you are a hypocrite and got "dirty" but won't face up to the truth, 2) you are a weenie and never did anything worth while, or 3) you are a girl.


Whoa buddy, don't insult us girls here!!! :lol: :lol:

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Wondered if that would draw a comment..........

You know the nicest thing about sinning are the ladies that get to sin with us..............
 

azcowpuncher

Well-known member
Get'em good pasture ha ha , yeah i have been acused of doin some of them kinda things but i always fes up to it myself , plus i had to many good times to not be tellin folks about it , just in another thread i was talkin bout how nice of a place the bunny ranch in nevada is , there are a few others up there that are nice too but the women were like nice good lookin school teachers in the bunny ranch ha ha ha .
 

hopalong

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
hopalong said:
Red Robin said:
That sure tells me what kind of a person you are to BRAG about having sexual relations in those cities,.I am sure they were all upright church going ladies as well and simply went astray by your overpowering preaching!
OR was it the fact you had a few bucks to pass onto them to support their habits?????
Yep certianally tells me a lot about your morals. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Let's see, what does this tell us, hmmmmmmm....hopalong must not've gotten ' any'!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Least I didn't pay for it! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
NOR did I charge for it!!
 
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