• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

I just don't get it...

Judith

Well-known member
I have been surfing the Bull Session for a couple of months now. Keeping my mouth shut and being a quiet observer. Alot of what goes on here is just idle chatter rather than actual problem solving. It seems to me that both countries should be working on a uniform test that solves the issues for both sides. An imaginary border drawn in the dirt will not stop illness and disease from crossing.( unless of course some invisible sheild was put up without my knowledge) While the mud slinging and name calling adds spice to our daily chats, the conversation could be more productive if the cattleman join forces and get this thing done. I know, I know alot of ego and politics go into the thing. But the Canada vs. US thing is getting old and in the meantime more and more cases are being found. The situation will not be too amusing if the governments finally close the borders for good. I am sure everyone will find new markets and things will go forward. Shouldnt we be working on this situation BEFORE we get to that point? Just my opinion.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Plus people on here on both sides of the border have so much in common compared to urban people in certain areas of our own countries.
North America is so different from one region to the next. But the difference isnt really at the Can/US border.
You would think that with all the similar interests and culture on this board that we would get a long because really we are all a minority.
If somebody from Boston or Toronto calls you a farmer. They dont mean it as a good thing.
 

Judith

Well-known member
Interesting how people label. I see farmer or rancher as a badge of honor.

Here in Vancouver they are building at a rate that is stunning. The farm land is being sold for condos and no one is thinking about the fact that some of the best farm land in the world is being covered up. Really sad how short sighted the powers that be are.
 

greg

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
Plus people on here on both sides of the border have so much in common compared to urban people in certain areas of our own countries.
North America is so different from one region to the next. But the difference isnt really at the Can/US border.
You would think that with all the similar interests and culture on this board that we would get a long because really we are all a minority.
If somebody from Boston or Toronto calls you a farmer. They dont mean it as a good thing.
Like when I got called a redneck once and thanked them.?Didn't get a responce.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Judith said:
Interesting how people label. I see farmer or rancher as a badge of honor.

Here in Vancouver they are building at a rate that is stunning. The farm land is being sold for condos and no one is thinking about the fact that some of the best farm land in the world is being covered up. Really sad how short sighted the powers that be are.

Welcome to the site, Judith. I hope the site returns to what it was before so much antagonism was stirred up against Canada beef producers.

While my living depends upon the cattle we raise, I do not believe the Canadian beef is a threat to the US cattle producer. We both face far greater threats to our livlihood.

The problem is, that some people leading cattle producers tell them that Canadian beef IS our great problem and holds our cattle prices down. That theory just doesn't stand to reason, since we have been enjoying the highest cattle prices ever, for just one reason.

It seems more reasonable that competing proteins, consumer finances, and anti-beef propaganda whether it comes from animal worshippers or from unfounded claims that "Canadian beef may be tainted with BSE" are far more dangerous to US and Canadian beef producers than we are to one another.

I agree with RoperAB that we cattle producers, especially those living across the western US and Canada, have much more in common than separating us. Many of us even have relatives in the other nation.

Your point about the sales of good farmland and covering it with buildings and pavement is an interesting one. Reminds me of the buzz over talk some years back, some from Al Gore, but probably originating with many more highly placed in the liberal 'think tank' hierarchy than he, to the effect that farming was a peasant occupation, causing too much environmental damage and mess to be done in the USA.

Some stories I've read were enlarging upon that idea to the end result that we should move agriculture production and other "messy" business off-shore and return the USA to a 'pristine' state for the enjoyment of the better class (educated) people, who are too intelligent to waste their talents on manual labor, or to take the service jobs beneath the dignity of 'the educated'. Maybe that is to follow the movement of manufacturing jobs to countries with less educated people and expecting our citizens to educate themselves to take higher paid, less polluting jobs. Before anyone shoots the messenger here, I'm only mentioning things I've read in the past, and with which I heartily disagree!

Anyway, welcome and hope you will jump in and contribute your thoughts on subjects you find interesting, or ask questions where you will. Maybe some of the other departments of ranchersnet will be more to your liking than this one because we do tend to react strongly at times, unfortunately.

MRJ
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
ranch hand said:
Like you did with blue tongue and all?

Not to turn this thread ugly, because I agree with Judith, but you may want to look at the blue tongue facts before passing judgement. When blue tongue was found up here, we quarantined the entire area against shipping breeding stock into other areas. Canada closed the border to the US because they were unwilling to quarantine areas with blue tongue. So while 99% of the US was blue tongue free, we (and neither did YOU) had no way of knowing that an animal from a blue tongue positive area didn't creep in there somewhere.

Rod
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Judith, your observation about the producers from the US and Canada needing to work togather is keen. Producers on both sides of the 49th are quiet minorities in their respective countries, and an allegiance betwen producers would command more power. I don't have much intention of wielding power for subsidies and payola, but taxes and trade come to mind.

One thing the producer nationalists should consider is the fungible nature of North American beef. If we ban Canadian beef at the border, it won't disappear; it will show up overseas and displace some US beef there. The way to arrive at the most efficient distribution chain is to let the market rule. This way eastern Canadian beef may go to Cleveland, and Idaho beef to Japan - see the foolishness in eastern Canadian beef going to japan, and Idaho beef going to Cleveland.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I'd be all for Canadian and US producers getting something done jointly. However, to be brutally honest, I see Canadian producers, the CFIS(?) and USDA as just being marionettes for the US packers and US producers being just one step above that. You then have the NCBA in bed with the AMI, SSGA leaders with no comments on flimsy government reports on packer actions that hurt Canadian cattlemen, and long-time NCBA members who are afraid to read the OIG report. Before anything can be done, all the yes-men and blinder-wearers who have allowed this mess to happen on their watch need to be excused.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
I'd be all for Canadian and US producers getting something done jointly. However, to be brutally honest, I see Canadian producers, the CFIS(?) and USDA as just being marionettes for the US packers and US producers being just one step above that. You then have the NCBA in bed with the AMI, SSGA leaders with no comments on flimsy government reports on packer actions that hurt Canadian cattlemen, and long-time NCBA members who are afraid to read the OIG report. Before anything can be done, all the yes-men and blinder-wearers who have allowed this mess to happen on their watch need to be excused.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Some just aren't smart enough to do it and others are too wrapped up in their self interest.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
MRJ said:
I hope the site returns to what it was before so much antagonism was stirred up against Canada beef producers.

Yea...the site can get back to some multi-national R-CALF bashing!!!! :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have no problem with Canadian producers selling their beef in the USA...even OTM beef...just as long as it is labeled "PRODUCT OF CANADA". And I'm sure most Canadian producers would gladly do it. The problem is with who is stopping COOL in North America.
 

Judith

Well-known member
I think for the most part Canadian producers would label their beef with pride. And so should the American producers. Just think about Alberta Beef for a second. The marketing was fantastic in the late 80's and now Alberta Angus can even be purchase in the fancy schmancy resturants in Europe. A buddy of mine paid dearly for "Alberta Beef" in Italy this spring. But she said it was well worth the price.

But I honestly feel that if we don't do something fairly soon, there is the possibility that the rest of the world buyers will shut their doors. It won't be helpful to either country.

Thanks for the warm welcome to the group! It's nice to be here and also good to see both sides of the issue. I find it is better to talk to the producers themselves than listen to the media on the issue. I can not believe how much mis information is out there. No worries about "heated issues" I come from really tough stock :wink: Us Norskies have really thick skulls :)
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Judith said:
I think for the most part Canadian producers would label their beef with pride. And so should the American producers. Just think about Alberta Beef for a second. The marketing was fantastic in the late 80's and now Alberta Angus can even be purchase in the fancy schmancy resturants in Europe. A buddy of mine paid dearly for "Alberta Beef" in Italy this spring. But she said it was well worth the price.

But I honestly feel that if we don't do something fairly soon, there is the possibility that the rest of the world buyers will shut their doors. It won't be helpful to either country.

Thanks for the warm welcome to the group! It's nice to be here and also good to see both sides of the issue. I find it is better to talk to the producers themselves than listen to the media on the issue. I can not believe how much mis information is out there. No worries about "heated issues" I come from really tough stock :wink: Us Norskies have really thick skulls :)

Judith, I've said it before that I don't believe labeling your beef will hurt Canadians.

Most of us on this board are more upset about Cargill and Tyson using Canadian beef in market manipulation schemes against the market as a whole.

That problem is not from Canadian producers, it is from U.S. packers operating in Canada and using captive supply where ever the source.

We would also like some producer support from some Canadian producers on stamping out new diseases instead of allowing packers to use those issues to gain more market share whether here or in Canada. We are also upset on the Canadian govt. paying off these large american packers in what has been called the salmon run.

I have said it many times that a lack of Canadian support on these issues will not bode well for Canadian producers in the long run or producers as a whole in the long run. Many of these issues are devised to divide the producers.

Welcome aboard and don't get your feelings hurt here. It is a place where ideas clash and sometimes it takes a thick skull.
 

Judith

Well-known member
Don't worry about my feelings, I'm tough :). Emotion really shouldnt come into play on these issues at all. But we are talking about peoples livelyhoods and that is where I think we all tend to become passionate.

So if I read what you posted correctly the packers are playing games. Which means (to my way of thinking) they have been given too much control.
So that said, what do the producers need to do to get the control back from the packers?

New plants?
New Markets?
New rancher incentives to bring in new blood?


Governments are going to swing back and forth on issues just like they have been doing for the last 100 years. Not much we can do about that. Plus they never do what they say they are going to do anyhow. I have no faith whatsoever in politics. I would rather put my faith where I know I can trust it. The other ranchers and producers. We all want the lifestyle and the big shiny truck.( said tongue in cheek, sorry I am cheeky can't help that.....) Let's work together to keep OUR industry thriving... We just need the plan
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
We would also like some producer support from some Canadian producers on stamping out new diseases instead of allowing packers to use those issues to gain more market share whether here or in Canada.

Please don't let a vocal minority on this forum persuade you to believe that Canuck producers aren't completely in favor in stamping out BSE, no matter how its done. While I obviously can't speak for every single producer in Canada, I do speak with many in my area on a regular basis. I've only run into 1 that hasn't been in favor of 100% BSE testing of all slaughter animals, whether they be OTM or UTM. Unfortunately, producers in Canada have about as much voice in government as US producers, which is to say, none at all.

Rod
 

Econ101

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Econ101 said:
We would also like some producer support from some Canadian producers on stamping out new diseases instead of allowing packers to use those issues to gain more market share whether here or in Canada.

Please don't let a vocal minority on this forum persuade you to believe that Canuck producers aren't completely in favor in stamping out BSE, no matter how its done. While I obviously can't speak for every single producer in Canada, I do speak with many in my area on a regular basis. I've only run into 1 that hasn't been in favor of 100% BSE testing of all slaughter animals, whether they be OTM or UTM. Unfortunately, producers in Canada have about as much voice in government as US producers, which is to say, none at all.

Rod

Yeah, I know that is the case. Sometimes not saying anything is the best policy when what you say won't do anything to help the situation and might even hurt you.

I realize this too:
producers in Canada have about as much voice in government as US producers, which is to say, none at all.

My comments were for Judith as she seems new.
 

Judith

Well-known member
Thanks Econ. And yup I am new to the cattle industry. Not the husbandry stuff as livestock has been part of my life forever. But the political angles. It is very educational to read through the posts and see all of the twists and turns. What is posted on the forums is completely different than what we are told on the west coast. The press out here is completely out to lunch and have no value for agriculture of any kind. All anyone wants to do in this neck o the woods is bury everything in development. Ummm how are we going to feed ourselves if every square inch of land has a freakin housing project on it. :mad: :x :???: Sorry went nuts there. I gotta go hose myself off, a bit hot under the collar....
 

Silver

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Econ101 said:
We would also like some producer support from some Canadian producers on stamping out new diseases instead of allowing packers to use those issues to gain more market share whether here or in Canada.

Please don't let a vocal minority on this forum persuade you to believe that Canuck producers aren't completely in favor in stamping out BSE, no matter how its done. While I obviously can't speak for every single producer in Canada, I do speak with many in my area on a regular basis. I've only run into 1 that hasn't been in favor of 100% BSE testing of all slaughter animals, whether they be OTM or UTM. Unfortunately, producers in Canada have about as much voice in government as US producers, which is to say, none at all.

Rod

It's funny you know. In '03 when the border slammed shut I stood up at a cattlemens meeting and voiced my opinion that we should test every animal. At least every animal OTM. I thought I was gonna get run out of there. Funny how now 3 years later its starting to become a good idea.
I still feel we should be testing everything. Then we would know our exact incedence level, and perhaps get a better grip on how to handle things.
 
Top