Whitewing said:Sorry, but I don't think there's a lot of truth there. I believe the US economy's problems are far deeper than can be solved by confiscating the wealth of the uber-rich. There really isn't enough money there.
I think there needs to be major structural changes in the system. However, every year it appears that more and more voters become dependent on the system in its current form and are therefore loathe to vote for the needed changes.
Don't believe me? Watch the fight play out on Medicare.
There will be a major collapse in the economy before anyone, voters or politicians, gets serious about addressing the real problems.
Just my humble opinon.
Tex said:The majority of people in the middle class have not had the wage increases while the "uber rich" have increased theirs and received tax breaks.
Whitewing said:I understand how you feel Tex, but I still don't think the numbers will add up when you do the math.
The money in this country was never, and is not still, in the pockets of uber-rich....it's in the pockets of the vast middle class because they far outweigh all others percentage-wise.
Also, you make this comment:
Tex said:The majority of people in the middle class have not had the wage increases while the "uber rich" have increased theirs and received tax breaks.
My belief is that from John F. Kennedy on down everyone has received a break in one form or another via lower tax rates....just look at where all rates were at one time versus where they are today.
Also, when almost 1 out of every 2 American households today pay ZERO federal income tax, it's hard for me to wrap my brain around how much the middle class suffers because the uber-rich are getting a tax break.
My personal opinion is that with the globalization of economies, jobs moving rapidly, and in force, from one region or one country to another, many formerly well-paying jobs in manufacturing are no longer based in America. America has transitioned to much more of a service economy over the years. I'm saying it's wrong, or right, I'm saying it's what I believe has happened.
So, in summary, to me the problem has little to do with the uber-rich getting tax breaks. With or without tax breaks the uber-rich always have the means by which they can protect their assets.....and they will use those means....it's logical and as long as it's legal, no one should complain that they don't pay their fair share.
America once protected its borders, both physical and economic. It no longer does either. The benefit of not protecting its borders economically is that Americans can by all the cheap gizmos they want that are manufactured in third world countries around the globe. The downside is that manufacturing jobs that once employed Americans to build those same gizmos are no longer based in America.
The benefit to certain employers and to many politicians for not protecting America's physical borders today is a steady stream of low-cost labor and predictable, growing blocks of peoples that can be exploited for votes.
To me, this seems simple. I see America experiencing loss of jobs and manufacturing base at the same time government entitlements and government employment are balloning. Take every dime out of the pocket of every uber-rich American this year and I still bet that within a few years the system will collapse nonetheless because it cannot be sustained any longer.
It's a house of cards and it's coming down unless someone grows the balls to stop it.
Ask Warren Buffet and he will tell you the same thing.
Whitewing said:Tex, it's interesting how you and I look at the same system today but see two completely different things.
While I agree with you that the wealthy always use their power (money) to influence laws to benefit themsevles, if I were an uber-rich businessman in the United States today I'd be scared stiff for two reasons:
1) the potoential collapse of the US economy....an economy that I depend upon as a businessman to continue to grow and prosper each and every year
2) the threat of a government that will eventually impliment confiscatory levels of taxes aimed specifically at me because I am uber-rich
The difference in what you see, and what I see, is that I see a government today that is actually flooding the system, overpowering it so-to-speak with entitlements, growing public-sector-unionized jobs with lifetime pension guarantees, exploding debt, and allowing more and more American households to suckle at the government teat by eliminating them from the federal tax rolls.
This is a govenment, in my opinion, that is actively creating an ever-increasing dependent class.....some of whom were formerly middle class, but now are being led to believe that their dire straits are the fault of the greedy few...........a greedy few percent who actually pay something on the order of 40% of all federal taxes in the country.
And Whitewing ISN'T a conspiracy theorist?Whitewing said:Sorry, but I don't think there's a lot of truth there. I believe the US economy's problems are far deeper than can be solved by confiscating the wealth of the uber-rich. There really isn't enough money there.
I think there needs to be major structural changes in the system. However, every year it appears that more and more voters become dependent on the system in its current form and are therefore loathe to vote for the needed changes.
Don't believe me? Watch the fight play out on Medicare.
There will be a major collapse in the economy before anyone, voters or politicians, gets serious about addressing the real problems.
Just my humble opinon.
lightninboy said:And Whitewing ISN'T a conspiracy theorist?Whitewing said:Sorry, but I don't think there's a lot of truth there. I believe the US economy's problems are far deeper than can be solved by confiscating the wealth of the uber-rich. There really isn't enough money there.
I think there needs to be major structural changes in the system. However, every year it appears that more and more voters become dependent on the system in its current form and are therefore loathe to vote for the needed changes.
Don't believe me? Watch the fight play out on Medicare.
There will be a major collapse in the economy before anyone, voters or politicians, gets serious about addressing the real problems.
Just my humble opinon.
Whitewing said:I forgot a lot of things. I just wanted to touch on the big ones.![]()
Mike said:Ask Warren Buffet and he will tell you the same thing.
In the year in question when Warren Buffet made the statement about his secretary paying more taxes than he, he paid $8,142,000.00 in taxes and his secretary paid about $30,000.00. 271 times less.
He paid a lower rate because his income, all but $100,000.00, was capital gains income which was taxed at a 15% rate. The same for each and everyone of us.
Warren Buffet has played the gov't game long enough and has become quite wealthy doing so. Just look how he is screwing the aviation industry and has the gall to say things aren't fair for some?
Tex said:Mike said:Ask Warren Buffet and he will tell you the same thing.
In the year in question when Warren Buffet made the statement about his secretary paying more taxes than he, he paid $8,142,000.00 in taxes and his secretary paid about $30,000.00. 271 times less.
He paid a lower rate because his income, all but $100,000.00, was capital gains income which was taxed at a 15% rate. The same for each and everyone of us.
Warren Buffet has played the gov't game long enough and has become quite wealthy doing so. Just look how he is screwing the aviation industry and has the gall to say things aren't fair for some?
That is exactly the point, Mike. He paid only 15 percent and his secretary paid more than that in SS taxes alone.
In this situation, money is valued more than (or the tax on it shows such) than labor. Tell me, does this advantage the uber rich or the workers?
I think Reich was right, and so are you, Whitewing. The uber rich do have a lot to worry about if they push the line too far. Marie Antoinette lost her head over such issues.
Tex
Bremer's economic policy will slash Saddam Hussein's top tax rate for individuals and businesses to 15 percent from 45 percent. Of course, since Saddam's government, like others in the Middle East, almost never enforced tax collection, there is no real history of paying taxes.
During the more than three decades of Baath Party rule, Saddam ran a centrally controlled economy with most large businesses owned or operated by the state. The government also managed the import of most goods.
That is exactly the point, Mike. He paid only 15 percent and his secretary paid more than that in SS taxes alone.