• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

If the packer deception cards were turned.

A

Anonymous

Guest
What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli.

YOU WOULD BE OUTRAGED!

Yet that is the exact deception that you support by wanting Creekstone to bse test with tests that would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age.

Damn hypocrites!

If whether or not Creekstone should be allowed to bse test for Japan was held to a public vote, you packer blamers would get your collective heads handed to you if the public knew that the tests being used would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age.

You think you have the moral high ground on bse testing but you're only selling "AN ILLUSION OF SAFETY" typical of your pathetic, deceptive ways.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, "What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli. YOU WOULD BE OUTRAGED! "

Not if I was the one demanding the test.
 

agman

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
SH, "What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli. YOU WOULD BE OUTRAGED! "

Not if I was the one demanding the test.

Why would you demand a test that failed to detect or show the pathogen of interest????? Explain your rationale. If Japan decided to implement mandatory prostate exams for men, women and children under the guise of a "Human health" concern should we be obliged to so the same to enter their country-if not, why not???
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
SH, "What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli. YOU WOULD BE OUTRAGED! "

Not if I was the one demanding the test.

Why would you demand a test that failed to detect or show the pathogen of interest????? Explain your rationale. If Japan decided to implement mandatory prostate exams for men, women and children under the guise of a "Human health" concern should we be obliged to so the same to enter their country-if not, why not???

If Japan required a prostate exam, I would not go there but would do everything in my power to see that you and SH got a weekend there together. I'd try to line up an examiner with huge fingers and long nails that was still torked off about losing the war.

Japan has every right to do what they want - it's their country. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? Who are you?

How much time has to go by and how many billions to you want US producers to leave on the table before you admit the USDA dropped the flippin ball? I may be wrong, but I think someone stated it was costing us 1.7 Billion a year in lost sales - & we're working on the third year! We can never get that back - IT'S GONE! Your NCBA said it's costing producers $175 for every cow - and we're working on the third year. The Japanese public doesn't trust us - they're even questioning the motives of their own government. Our competitors are getting a deeper foothold daily - and all this because Tyson and Cargill didn't want to test. this. :roll: "Not based on sound science" my arse! What about organic, Agman? This whole things smells worse than a toilet seat on a tuna boat.
 

the chief

Well-known member
I think this says a lot
CEO John Stewart told a meeting of Japan’s main opposition party’s BSE Strategy Headquarters this winter that he believes U.S. beef is safe.

“Frankly speaking, I do not think individual testing is necessary,” Stewart said.

However, “I do not think my customer is always right, but I think my customer is my customer,” he said to assembled Diet (Japanese parliament) members of the Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ), Japanese and foreign press.

Creekstone Farms is committed to export its beef to Japan but, Stewart warned, others in the U.S. beef industry are setting their sights on another Asian country.

Stewart pointed out that South Korea is expected to lift its ban on U.S. beef within 45 days. The U.S. will then be able to export to that country beef up to 30 months old, as long as it is deboned.
Two things stand out to me. Creekstone's CEO says "my customer may not always be right, but my customer IS my customer." That is the "honest" way to approach a customer.

Secondly, Creekstone states that 'others in the beef industry' are setting sights on South korea. Why? They will take cattle up to 30 months of age, cattle that are less expensive to buy. This tells me that "other packers" don't care about the customer, they care about the profit.
[/u]
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Sandhusker, if it would do any help, I would stage a protest against the emperor (taliking about Japan here, not the U.S.) to get the Japanese physician a little more mad before the exam.

SH, and Agman, you guys are so pathetic (sorry to keep using your terms, SH, they just seem so appropriate when describing you).

Not allowing U.S. companies to go a little further to fulfill Japan's more stringent food safety requirements and trying to make them go to our lower standard hasn't worked yet.

Didn't you say that "results count", Agman? Many producers are tired of the USDA and their policies of bending over backward for the big packers.

Can we ask that they and the Republican Senators who are arguing for this insane policy to be a part of the exam also? They might enjoy the trip also.
 

fedup2

Well-known member
Sh[“What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli.”

Let me borrow some of your words and change them a little.

What if the large packers were using a USDA inspected stamp that created the public perception that if beef was inspected, that it would be free from any problems but you found out that the inspections were so inadequate that they wouldn’t reveal even some of the slightest problems? One that not only created the illusion that this meat was safe, but was from this country?
You have said in the past that not putting the USDA inspected sticker on meat gives the illusion that the meat is unsafe.
----------------------------------------------------------------
[Delmer Jones, a USDA meat inspector for 41 years, said that inspectors were looking at 13 chickens a minute when he started compared to 91 a minute today with three inspectors, presumably allowing about two seconds per carcass but only if all three inspectors were on the line at once. Many other inspectors have complained that the speed of production lines permits only a fleeting visual inspection as the carcasses whiz past their stations.

The faster production lines also make it harder for employees to remove defective parts making it more likely that they will wind up in the plastic--wrapped packages or hamburger sold to consumers.
----------------------------------

[Of 37 Mexican plants authorized to export to the U.S., ten were inspected by the USDA in the spring of 1999. Because USDA found serious deficiencies, it inspected 15 additional plants that November. Eight of those 25 plants — 32 percent — flunked USDA’s inspections because of such violations as fecal contamination, not having hand soap at the workers’ hand-washing facilities, meat being stored under insanitary conditions, failure to sanitize contaminated equipment, and failure to conduct bacteria tests on a random basis. The USDA inspectors also found serious deficiencies in the Mexican laboratories that are supposed to test the meat for deadly Salmonella bacteria.
The USDA inspectors also said that prior to the second audit the Mexican government had assured the USDA that it had corrected the problems revealed by the first audit. However, the second set of USDA inspectors concluded that, in fact, Mexico had failed to correct three of the six major deficiencies in its inspection system.]
-----------------------------------

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on Tuesday announced plans to reduce inspectors’ visits to food processing plants, despite recent scares over contaminated meat products. Inspectors will make daily, random visits to plants, instead of visiting every processing plant once a shift. The move will save the food industry an estimated $19 million a year and will eliminate 150 positions from the department’s 7,500 employee inspection force, according to news reports.

At a public hearing on the pilot program, Karen Henderson, one of USDA's field operations employees admitted that defective carcasses are being approved for human consumption.]
-----------------------------------------------

There are hundreds of cases where thousands/millions(?) of pounds of meat over the years have been contaminated, yet they carry the USDA inspection sticker.
Again we will use your choice of words.

ARE YOU OUTRAGED?
Damn hypocrites!
You think you have the moral high ground on ‘USDA inspected’ but you're only selling "AN ILLUSION OF SAFETY" typical of your pathetic, deceptive ways.
(mostly your words, not mine)

My questions: Why are you so concerned with a test that can do absolutely no harm, yet have not expressed a single word of outrage over the possibility of eating burger with the $hit ground up in it & the further cut back of inspections? Also, what if you went to your local store and wanted beef from the US or Canada but didn’t want Mexican beef? Should you have a choice? Or is it none of your damn business what you feed your family? BTW, 99% of the meat I buy is purchased from locals.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandbag: "If Japan required a prostate exam, I would not go there but would do everything in my power to see that you and SH got a weekend there together. I'd try to line up an examiner with huge fingers and long nails that was still torked off about losing the war."

ROTFLMAO!!!!! Hahaha!

That was funny even if it was at my expense.

TORA TORA TORA!!!!


Sandbag, you damn hypocrite!

You know if you were the one demanding the test YOU WOULD BE UNDER THE BELIEF THAT THE ECOLI TEST WOULD DETECT ECOLI! If you knew that it didn't, you'd be outraged. Hell, you were bitching about CO2. I know exactly how you'd be. "YOU BE BWAMING DA PACKAH" just like you always do and you know it. Man would I love to make this a topic of discussion with you and me in front of a group of consumers.


Sandbag: "This whole things smells worse than a toilet seat on a tuna boat."

You got that right. Consumers believe when they buy beef that says "BSE TESTED" that the beef is "BSE FREE". You pathetic deceiver you!


Chief,

You bet, the customer is always right. If we can sell them an "ILLUSION OF SAFETY", GET 'R DONE!!!!!

How pathetic!


Conman,

Why do you refuse to address the fact that bse prions would not be revealed in cattle under 24 months of age????

Why do you divert that fact?

YOU KNOW DAMN WELL YOU ARE SIMPLY SELLING AN "ILLUSION OF SAFETY", nothing more, nothing less! True to your lying ways.


Fedup,

All you did is divert the issue.

WOULD YOU SUPPORT USDA APPROVING ECOLI TESTING THAT WOULD NOT REVEAL ECOLI???

YES OR NO????


Call me the next time you get by this way if you want to discuss these issues face to face. I'd welcome the opportunity.


Since you diverted the hypocrisy issue, I'll return the favor by answering your questions.

Fedup: "My questions: Why are you so concerned with a test that can do absolutely no harm, yet have not expressed a single word of outrage over the possibility of eating burger with the $hit ground up in it & the further cut back of inspections?"

You got nothing here!

The issue is not whether or not a bse test will do any harm, THE ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT IT'S JUSTIFIED. In this case, it's not! It capitalizes on the fact that Japanese consumers believe "BSE TESTED" means "BSE FREE". You food safety hypocrites support an "ILLUSION OF SAFETY".

As far as USDA inspection of beef, I just read a recent report from the FDA that reported that the cases of food pathogens is down not up. So much for your "gloom and doom" report. Tell that to your group.

Further, I support those branded beef programs that require certain roughages to be fed prior to slaughter to reduce the possibilities of ecoli contamination.

I support the large evil corporate packers pouring millions of dollars into food safety technology such as steam vaccing, pasteurization, and cryovac packaging with the understanding that food safety problems are an INDUSTRY PROBLEM.


Fedup: "Also, what if you went to your local store and wanted beef from the US or Canada but didn’t want Mexican beef? Should you have a choice?"

You got nothing here either!

If I wanted source verified beef, I could buy source verified beef that not only told me what country the beef was from but what ranch, what vaccination program, what feed program, and anything else I wanted to know. The free enterprise system is already doing what your "PLEASE GOVERNMENT, SAVE US FROM OURSLELVES AGAIN" flawed mandate will not do.

Determining origination of beef does not require a flawed government mandate that prohibited the means to enforce it and segregates 5% of our US beef consumption as a novelty item at the cost of labeling all beef resulting in lower cattle prices to cover the cost.


Fedup: "Or is it none of your damn business what you feed your family?"

That doesn't even make sense! Why wouldn't it be MY business what I feed MY family. Good grief!


Fed up: "BTW, 99% of the meat I buy is purchased from locals."

So what the hell is your problem?


Try to put more thoughts into your argument this time or perhaps it's time to once again give a long discertation on the manner in which I post and how I have recruited members for R-CALF and on and on and on to once again divert the issue.


~SH~
 

fedup2

Well-known member
Thanks for the response SH

I felt my comparison of USDA inspected was a better comparison than a prostrate exam. But now I see that when one is dealing with @ssholes, Agman’s comparison to the prostrate exam is more on the mark .(nothing personal LOL!) I thank you for the polite response of “you got nothing there” in response to the questions I asked. I won’t call you a diverter! I will just take your lack of response as “I don’t know”.

I also shared a true story about a couple of forum tough guys based on actual experience. It seems you took that story personal. There is an old saying, “if the shoe fits, wear it!” I’m happy you related to the story. They say the first step to recovery is admission. I also appreciate your feeble attempts at being polite. As you appear to have the natural disposition of a constipated snake, I know it isn’t easy for you. I would like to add to Sandhuskers wish about the Dr. with the huge fingers and long nails. I hope he also has left hand threads!

I usually spend time at the Shade Hill SD campground in the summer. If it isn’t to far from your area, I will try to contact you. Have a nice day.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Fedup,

Was there anywhere in your two posts that you addressed the issue on where you would stand if USDA advocated an ecoli test that would not reveal ecoli?

If there was, I must have missed it.

As always, when they can't bring anything to the table, they talk about the shape of the table.

Shadehill is a good drive from here. If you're coming through the area, call me if you think the arguments will change in person.



~SH~
 

fedup2

Well-known member
SH:"Shadehill is a good drive from here. If you're coming through the area, call me if you think the arguments will change in person."

I not sure if the arguments will change in person, but I'm thinking the attitudes will!
 

Mike

Well-known member
fedup2 said:
SH:"Shadehill is a good drive from here. If you're coming through the area, call me if you think the arguments will change in person."

I not sure if the arguments will change in person, but I'm thinking the attitudes will!

Are we talking "Attitude Adjustments" here? I like it! :lol: :lol:
 

fedup2

Well-known member
SH “Attitude"SSSSS"!
Would that include yours?”

That is why I wrote attitudes instead of attitude SH! If I came on this forum and threatened to adjust your attitude, that would make me just another wanna-be forum bully. As I have said before, I have no use for cyber-space tough guys SH. I damn sure don’t want to be one.

I have made many friends from different forums over the years. I have been in their homes and they have been in mine. I have always without exception, been welcomed back anytime and so have they.

I have spent to much time as a grunt in VietNam & as a boxer in the ring not to respect a man regardless of his size, age, or color. But unlike the military, that respect has to be earned, not demanded. I have tried to avoid ‘physical’ discussions in my time, but I’ve never ran from one!

This little game is starting to bore me, can we play something else?
 

agman

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
SH, "What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli. YOU WOULD BE OUTRAGED! "

Not if I was the one demanding the test.

Why would you demand a test that failed to detect or show the pathogen of interest????? Explain your rationale. If Japan decided to implement mandatory prostate exams for men, women and children under the guise of a "Human health" concern should we be obliged to so the same to enter their country-if not, why not???

If Japan required a prostate exam, I would not go there but would do everything in my power to see that you and SH got a weekend there together. I'd try to line up an examiner with huge fingers and long nails that was still torked off about losing the war.

Japan has every right to do what they want - it's their country. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? Who are you?

How much time has to go by and how many billions to you want US producers to leave on the table before you admit the USDA dropped the flippin ball? I may be wrong, but I think someone stated it was costing us 1.7 Billion a year in lost sales - & we're working on the third year! We can never get that back - IT'S GONE! Your NCBA said it's costing producers $175 for every cow - and we're working on the third year. The Japanese public doesn't trust us - they're even questioning the motives of their own government. Our competitors are getting a deeper foothold daily - and all this because Tyson and Cargill didn't want to test. this. :roll: "Not based on sound science" my arse! What about organic, Agman? This whole things smells worse than a toilet seat on a tuna boat.

Why did you fail to answer my question?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
agman said:
Sandhusker said:
agman said:
Why would you demand a test that failed to detect or show the pathogen of interest????? Explain your rationale. If Japan decided to implement mandatory prostate exams for men, women and children under the guise of a "Human health" concern should we be obliged to so the same to enter their country-if not, why not???

If Japan required a prostate exam, I would not go there but would do everything in my power to see that you and SH got a weekend there together. I'd try to line up an examiner with huge fingers and long nails that was still torked off about losing the war.

Japan has every right to do what they want - it's their country. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? Who are you?

How much time has to go by and how many billions to you want US producers to leave on the table before you admit the USDA dropped the flippin ball? I may be wrong, but I think someone stated it was costing us 1.7 Billion a year in lost sales - & we're working on the third year! We can never get that back - IT'S GONE! Your NCBA said it's costing producers $175 for every cow - and we're working on the third year. The Japanese public doesn't trust us - they're even questioning the motives of their own government. Our competitors are getting a deeper foothold daily - and all this because Tyson and Cargill didn't want to test. this. :roll: "Not based on sound science" my arse! What about organic, Agman? This whole things smells worse than a toilet seat on a tuna boat.

Why did you fail to answer my question?

I didn't. I'll answer again; Japan has every right to do what they want - it's their country.
 

mrj

Well-known member
fedup2 said:
Sh[“What if the large packers were using an ecoli test that created the public perception that if beef was ecoli tested, that it would be free from ecoli but you found out that the tests used would not even reveal ecoli.”

Let me borrow some of your words and change them a little.

What if the large packers were using a USDA inspected stamp that created the public perception that if beef was inspected, that it would be free from any problems but you found out that the inspections were so inadequate that they wouldn’t reveal even some of the slightest problems? One that not only created the illusion that this meat was safe, but was from this country?
You have said in the past that not putting the USDA inspected sticker on meat gives the illusion that the meat is unsafe.
----------------------------------------------------------------
[Delmer Jones, a USDA meat inspector for 41 years, said that inspectors were looking at 13 chickens a minute when he started compared to 91 a minute today with three inspectors, presumably allowing about two seconds per carcass but only if all three inspectors were on the line at once. Many other inspectors have complained that the speed of production lines permits only a fleeting visual inspection as the carcasses whiz past their stations.

The faster production lines also make it harder for employees to remove defective parts making it more likely that they will wind up in the plastic--wrapped packages or hamburger sold to consumers.
----------------------------------

[Of 37 Mexican plants authorized to export to the U.S., ten were inspected by the USDA in the spring of 1999. Because USDA found serious deficiencies, it inspected 15 additional plants that November. Eight of those 25 plants — 32 percent — flunked USDA’s inspections because of such violations as fecal contamination, not having hand soap at the workers’ hand-washing facilities, meat being stored under insanitary conditions, failure to sanitize contaminated equipment, and failure to conduct bacteria tests on a random basis. The USDA inspectors also found serious deficiencies in the Mexican laboratories that are supposed to test the meat for deadly Salmonella bacteria.
The USDA inspectors also said that prior to the second audit the Mexican government had assured the USDA that it had corrected the problems revealed by the first audit. However, the second set of USDA inspectors concluded that, in fact, Mexico had failed to correct three of the six major deficiencies in its inspection system.]
-----------------------------------

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on Tuesday announced plans to reduce inspectors’ visits to food processing plants, despite recent scares over contaminated meat products. Inspectors will make daily, random visits to plants, instead of visiting every processing plant once a shift. The move will save the food industry an estimated $19 million a year and will eliminate 150 positions from the department’s 7,500 employee inspection force, according to news reports.

At a public hearing on the pilot program, Karen Henderson, one of USDA's field operations employees admitted that defective carcasses are being approved for human consumption.]
-----------------------------------------------

There are hundreds of cases where thousands/millions(?) of pounds of meat over the years have been contaminated, yet they carry the USDA inspection sticker.
Again we will use your choice of words.

ARE YOU OUTRAGED?
Damn hypocrites!
You think you have the moral high ground on ‘USDA inspected’ but you're only selling "AN ILLUSION OF SAFETY" typical of your pathetic, deceptive ways.
(mostly your words, not mine)

My questions: Why are you so concerned with a test that can do absolutely no harm, yet have not expressed a single word of outrage over the possibility of eating burger with the $hit ground up in it & the further cut back of inspections? Also, what if you went to your local store and wanted beef from the US or Canada but didn’t want Mexican beef? Should you have a choice? Or is it none of your damn business what you feed your family? BTW, 99% of the meat I buy is purchased from locals.


Fedup2, you don't have a date on that material, and mixing inspections of poultry and beef presumably in domestic plants, along with Mexican "meat" plants is very confusing.

Are you knowledgeable about the Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points method of inspections instituted a few years ago? Over the outraged protests of the inspectors unions, I might add. Very briefly,that system ended the "see and smell" only, method of inspections of the past. Actual testing for contaminants and bacteria, begining with inspecting every step of the processing line to identify POSSIBLE places where problems could occur and eliminates those problems. Rates of contamination have dropped dramatically since that time. There still are inspectors, but they have many more sophisticated tools to find possible contamination than simply the "see and smell" of previous systems.

Fearmongering about the safety of beef, with little done by those spreading the fears to alleviate the problem, other than the usual "we need more inspectors" seems counter-productive. Finding and implementing better inspection systems, and continually updating them with better methodology seems to me to better serve consumer, producer, and meat handling businesses.

No headlines, no accusations, just go to work and get it done........which ONE organization I know has done very successfully for many, many years. No one claims nothing more is needed.....just that curing problems as they arise is more effective than seeking headlines.

MRJ
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Any inspection technique in the world is no good if it isn't used...According to former HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson only .1% of all imported foods is ever inspected by a US employed inspector- either FDA or USDA.....Leaves a lot of holes- especially when it comes from a country like Mexico where government employees routinely get their incomes from graft instead of wages......
 

PORKER

Well-known member
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on Tuesday announced plans to reduce inspectors’ visits to food processing plants, despite recent scares over contaminated meat products. Inspectors will make daily, random visits to plants, instead of visiting every processing plant once a shift. The move will save the food industry an estimated $19 million a year and will eliminate 150 positions from the department’s 7,500 employee inspection force, according to news reports.

At a public hearing on the pilot program, Karen Henderson, one of USDA's field operations employees admitted that defective carcasses are being approved for human consumption.
Then we find out that FSIS ,that they will let you add any kind of non inspected meat to any other meat even if its Kangaroo We need COOL and A CHANGE of bureaucrats in USDA in Washington.
 

Beefman

Well-known member
PORKER said:
The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on Tuesday announced plans to reduce inspectors’ visits to food processing plants, despite recent scares over contaminated meat products. Inspectors will make daily, random visits to plants, instead of visiting every processing plant once a shift. The move will save the food industry an estimated $19 million a year and will eliminate 150 positions from the department’s 7,500 employee inspection force, according to news reports.

At a public hearing on the pilot program, Karen Henderson, one of USDA's field operations employees admitted that defective carcasses are being approved for human consumption.
Then we find out that FSIS ,that they will let you add any kind of non inspected meat to any other meat even if its Kangaroo We need COOL and A CHANGE of bureaucrats in USDA in Washington.

Settle down Porker. You're getting all lathered up unnecessarily. You’re falling into a trap.

You should be more skeptical of the info fedup posted. The paragraph “the USDA on Tuesday”…….was copied from a press release from Public Citizen on 3/22/2000. No doubt you remember Public Citizen is one of three groups R Calf held hands with in at the infamous Wash DC press conference. The link is http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=445.

The sentence regarding Karen Henderson, was copied from http://web.linkny.com/~civitas/page223.html. This link was written on 7/14/2000. The link references a book called Slaughterhouse, which at least one website favorable to vegetarianism called “recommended reading supporting our cause”.

It takes no effort to find critics to beef production and processing. But to proclaim “the sky is falling”, and use such weak references dilutes your argument. When someone supposedly close to agriculture uses 6 year old questionable data to poke USDA, the people at Public Citizen are smiling.
 
Top