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If You Think Bush Suspended The Constitution...

Mike

Well-known member
Read this:

As the Civil War started, in the very beginning of Lincoln's presidential term, a group of "Peace Democrats" proposed a peaceful resolution to the developing Civil War by offering a truce with the South, and forming a constitutional convention to amend the U.S. Constitution to protect States' rights. The proposal was ignored by the Unionists of the North and not taken seriously by the South. However, the Peace Democrats, also called copperheads by their enemies, publicly criticized Lincoln's belief that violating the U.S. Constitution was required to save it as a whole. With Congress not in session until July, Lincoln assumed all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend habeas corpus. In 1861, Lincoln had already suspended civil law in territories where resistance to the North's military power would be dangerous. In 1862, when copperhead democrats began criticizing Lincoln's violation of the Constitution, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus throughout the nation and had many copperhead democrats arrested under military authority because he felt that the State Courts in the north west would not convict war protesters such as the copperheads. He proclaimed that all persons who discouraged enlistments or engaged in disloyal practices would come under Martial Law.

Among the 13,000 people arrested under martial law was a Maryland Secessionist, John Merryman. Immediately, Hon. Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States issued a writ of habeas corpus commanding the military to bring Merryman before him. The military refused to follow the writ. Justice Taney, in Ex parte MERRYMAN, then ruled the suspension of habeas corpus unconstitutional because the writ could not be suspended without an Act of Congress. President Lincoln and the military ignored Justice Taney's ruling.

Finally, in 1866, after the war, the Supreme Court officially restored habeas corpus in Ex-parte Milligan, ruling that military trials in areas where the civil courts were capable of functioning were illegal.

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American Patriot Network
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Yep-- You weren't aware of that?
But historians agree there was a lot of difference back then- we were in the middle of a war where 100,000's of Americans were dying and the entire maintainability of the union were at stake...The eneny was us ourselves....
If he'd have lost the war and lived he probably would have been impeached for it....

If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Yep-- You weren't aware of that?
But historians agree there was a lot of difference back then- we were in the middle of a war where 100,000's of Americans were dying and the entire maintainability of the union were at stake...The eneny was us ourselves....
If he'd have lost the war and lived he probably would have been impeached for it....

If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....

Oh I see. You talk the Constitution game for law and order and chastise Bush for what you think are his provocations on civil liberties in the name of national defense but if it is OK with history it is OK?

There's a right reason for supending Habeas Corpus? All along I thought you were a constitutionalist.

Yes, I have known of this instance for many moons. There are other unconstitutional atrocities commited by Lincoln also, yet he is known as one of our greatest presidents?

You are the hypocrit I thought. :roll:
 

Steve

Well-known member
OldTimer
If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....

and those in Lincoln's day more then likely felt he was the heel...

and many historians ignore the facts to only portray the results...


and in fifty years when Iraq is stable....GW will be still hated by the left...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Oldtimer said:
Yep-- You weren't aware of that?
But historians agree there was a lot of difference back then- we were in the middle of a war where 100,000's of Americans were dying and the entire maintainability of the union were at stake...The eneny was us ourselves....
If he'd have lost the war and lived he probably would have been impeached for it....

If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....

Oh I see. You talk the Constitution game for law and order and chastise Bush for what you think are his provocations on civil liberties in the name of national defense but if it is OK with history it is OK?

There's a right reason for supending Habeas Corpus? All along I thought you were a constitutionalist.

Yes, I have known of this instance for many moons. There are other unconstitutional atrocities commited by Lincoln also, yet he is known as one of our greatest presidents?

You are the hypocrit I thought. :roll:

I don't think I ever said it was OK- in fact in college it was taught Lincoln was one of the biggest violators/eroders of the Constitution- and did not make Lincoln out to be the great guy the folks that see him as only freeing the slaves did....Like I said-One professor taught that he thought that if Lincoln had lived-and had lost the war- it may have been him facing impeachment instead of Johnson, because his crimes were much worse....
FDR went around the Constitution and the wishes of Congress several times too- including locking up 1000's of US citizens...A treason act was passed and people were jailed during WWI for even making the comment that they were against the war or sending mail to their relatives in Germany checking on their welfare....All came about because of wartime hysteria- and all were later in history found to be unjustifiable and just that- Hysteria and look good, feel good acts that did nothing to aid our security...If you keep people filled with fear- you can get away with a lot of things- including being incompetent with the actions that should actually be done....

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
 

Steve

Well-known member
OldTimer
If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....

Steve
and those in Lincoln's day more then likely felt he was the heel...

and many historians ignore the facts to only portray the results...


and in fifty years when Iraq is stable....GW will be still hated by the left...

kolanuraven said:
Steve said:
and in fifty years ....GW will be still hated by the left...




YES!

And the liberals will ignore the rest of the facts as well so they can see only the results they want... a reason to hate GW...
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Is there not some within the republican party that also agree GW abused the constituation ? Are any of those running for the leadership of the repub party using GW as a positive in their promise of change or are they distancing themselfes from this lastest presidency ? Has any of these up and comming members ever said they would continue to build on the wonderful job GW has done with his presidency?...Has any of them asked GW to speak on their behalf? Has GW endorest any candidate ?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Steve said:
OldTimer
If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....

Steve
and those in Lincoln's day more then likely felt he was the heel...

and many historians ignore the facts to only portray the results...


and in fifty years when Iraq is stable....GW will be still hated by the left...

kolanuraven said:
Steve said:
and in fifty years ....GW will be still hated by the left...




YES!

And the liberals will ignore the rest of the facts as well so they can see only the results they want... a reason to hate GW...



You asked a question and you got an answer so don't whiiiiiiiiiiine about it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
nonothing said:
Is there not some within the republican party that also agree GW abused the constituation ? Are any of those running for the leadership of the repub party using GW as a positive in their promise of change or are they distancing themselfes from this lastest presidency ? Has any of these up and comming members ever said they would continue to build on the wonderful job GW has done with his presidency?...Has any of them asked GW to speak on their behalf? Has GW endorest any candidate ?

They were discussing this on a news show the other night- and Jack Cafferty, who doesn't mince words about incompetent government and politicians (Both R's and D's), made the comment that a Bush endorsement would be equal to getting the Godfathers kiss of death !!!! :wink: :lol:
 

Steve

Well-known member
NoNothing
Is there not some within the republican party that also agree GW abused the constitution ?

When a president abuses his authority, congress and the courts can rein him in...

they have not... so it appears the abuse is more of a perception by the left of wrongdoing then actual fact..

NoNothing
Are any of those running for the leadership of the repub party using GW as a positive in their promise of change or are they distancing themselfes from this lastest presidency ?

McCain could be considered the party leadership to a certain degree.. In areas such as illegal immigration, He is agreement with Bush.. as for the War in Iraq... he is claiming to have been the architect of the surge strategy.. so in effect he can't distance himself from Bush... other then on fiscal matters... but then again he voted against the tax cuts..

Huckabee, has distanced himself a little in saying Bush's planning and execution of the war was flawed.. and is claiming to be a fiscal conservative...

and every one else has effectively quit..

NoNothing

Has any of these up and comming members ever said they would continue to build on the wonderful job GW has done with his presidency?.

McCain plans on being in Iraq for as long as it takes.. he plans on letting illegals stay.. (after we get our blank - blank fence*)... so yes he would effectively be the same as GW...except he saw combat.. and was a POW...

NoNothing
.Has any of them asked GW to speak on their behalf? Has GW endorsed any candidate ?

No,.. to soon to see who Bush will endorse,.. but it appears to be McCain, by GW's last speech...



(McCain)"I think the fence is least effective. But I'll build the g-d--n fence if they want it."
 

Steve

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Steve said:
OldTimer
If you do it for the right reasons- your a hero----if you do it for the wrong reasons your a heel.....

Steve
and those in Lincoln's day more then likely felt he was the heel...

and many historians ignore the facts to only portray the results...


and in fifty years when Iraq is stable....GW will be still hated by the left...

kolanuraven said:

And the liberals will ignore the rest of the facts as well so they can see only the results they want... a reason to hate GW...



You asked a question and you got an answer so don't whiiiiiiiiiiine about it.

I didn't ask a question... I made a statement... which you took out of context by eliminating the effective part of, so I corrected my statement to show how liberals ignore facts,,, :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Steve said:
kolanuraven said:
Steve said:
OldTimer

Steve



And the liberals will ignore the rest of the facts as well so they can see only the results they want... a reason to hate GW...



You asked a question and you got an answer so don't whiiiiiiiiiiine about it.

I didn't ask a question... I made a statement... which you took out of context by eliminating the effective part of, so I corrected my statement to show how liberals ignore facts,,, :roll: :roll: :roll:



:cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:


Now don't stomp your feet and hold your breath too long with this tantrum!!
 
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