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Illegals leave Arizona

Sandhusker

Well-known member
PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Illegal immigrants in Arizona, frustrated with a flagging economy and tough new legislation cracking down on their employers, are returning to their home countries or trying their luck in other states.

For months, immigrants have taken a wait-and-see attitude toward the state's new employer-sanctions law, which takes effect January 1. The voter-approved legislation is an attempt to lessen the economic incentive for illegal immigrants in Arizona, the busiest crossing point along the U.S.-Mexico border.

And by all appearances, it's starting to work.

"People are calling me telling me about their friend, their cousin, their neighbors -- they're moving back to Mexico," said Magdalena Schwartz, an immigrant-rights activist and pastor at a Mesa church. "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Martin Herrera, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant and masonry worker who lives in Camp Verde, 70 miles north of Phoenix, said he is planning to return to Mexico as soon as he ties up loose ends after living here for four years.

"I don't want to live here because of the new law and the oppressive environment," he said. "I'll be better in my country."

He called the employer-sanctions law "absurd."

"Everybody here, legally or illegally, we are part of a motor that makes this country run," Herrera said. "Once we leave, the motor is going to start to slow down."

There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona, especially now with many returning home for normal holiday visits. But economists, immigration lawyers and people who work in the immigrant community agree it's happening.

State Rep. Russell Pearce of Mesa, the author of the employer sanctions law, said his intent was to drive illegal immigrants out of Arizona.

"I'm hoping they will self-deport," Pearce said. "They broke the law. They're criminals."

Under the employer sanctions law, businesses found to have knowingly hired illegal workers will be subject to sanctions from probation to a 10-day suspension of their business licenses. A second violation would bring permanent revocation of the license.

Nancy-Jo Merritt, an immigration lawyer who primarily represents employers, said her clients already have started to fire workers who can't prove they are in the country legally.

"Workers are being fired, of course," she said. "Nobody wants to find out later on that they've got somebody working for them who's not here legally."

When immigrants don't have jobs, they don't stick around, said Dawn McLaren, a research economist at Arizona State University who specializes in illegal immigration.

She said the flagging economy, particularly in the construction industry, also is contributing to an immigrant exodus.

"As the jobs dwindle and the environment becomes more unpleasant in more ways than one, you then decide what to do, and perhaps leaving looks like a good idea," she said. "And certainly that creates a problem, because as people leave, they take the jobs they created with them."

Pearce disagreed that the Arizona economy will suffer after illegal immigrants leave, saying there will be less crime, lower taxes, less congestion, smaller classroom sizes and shorter lines in emergency rooms.

"We have a free market. It'll adjust," he said. "Americans will be much better off."

He said he's not surprised illegal immigrants are leaving the state and predicts that more will go once the employer-sanctions law takes effect next month.

"It's attrition by enforcement," he said. "As you make this an unfriendly state for lawbreakers, I'm hoping they will pick up and leave."
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
This sure addresses the comments the illegal aiders and abbetors make about "You can't deport 12 million people". This problem can largely be addressed with hardly a single deportation.
 

Mike

Well-known member
A friend of mine just got back from Mexico and said there are signs all over down there advertising jobs in the U. S.

He said he saw several by Tyson, Cargill, and Conagra with a 1-800 number for a transportion contact.

I guess if they get a work visa, it is still legal. :mad:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
I posted this way back...




The fix for illegal immigration....


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kolanuraven
Rancher



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 4860
Location: planet earth
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: The fix for illegal immigration....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was talking to a friend of mine today. He's ILLEGAL of course.
But he told me something interesting. He said that word is going back to Mexico DO NOT COME ( TO THE SOUTHEAST) as there are no jobs because the building scene/economy is so bad that there are no jobs.



Then it hit me.

Bush has f---'ed up our economy sooo bad that it's his round about way to stop the illegal immigration.

No jobs, loosing jobs, esp in the building section where 90% of Hispanics work....economy in the tank, recession looming....no one would want to come here!

Immigration problem solved!!!

That GW...tricky guy![/i]



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"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

PLEASE NOTE: I may or may not have spell checked this post.!!!!

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Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mike said:
A friend of mine just got back from Mexico and said there are signs all over down there advertising jobs in the U. S.

He said he saw several by Tyson, Cargill, and Conagra with a 1-800 number for a transportion contact.

I guess if they get a work visa, it is still legal. :mad:

Ought to send those phone numbers to Lou Dobbs.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
Now, all american citizens need to contact their congressional leaders and start pushing for the welfare benefits to end, subsidized housing and any other government benefit that illegals receive.
 

Texan

Well-known member
MoGal said:
Now, all american citizens need to contact their congressional leaders and start pushing for the welfare benefits to end, subsidized housing and any other government benefit that illegals receive.
I don't disagree with you about that MoGal, BUT...

We need the federal government to have a cohesive plan in place before we start getting rid of jobs and benefits for these people. Unfortunately, 'cohesive planning' and 'federal government' often seems to be an oxymoron.

The vast majority of Mexican illegals aren't predisposed to crime (excluding the act of illegal entry into our country). Doing away with their jobs, housing and other benefits without a plan in place to locate and deport them is just asking for trouble.

As good as it may sound - as patriotic as it may sound, you can't take away their jobs and housing without turning many of them into criminals. People that only came here to work will probably resort to stealing to feed their family if that's what it takes. Many of us would probably do the same thing if our kids were going without food.

Local law enforcement is NOT prepared to deal with all of the crime that could result from taking away jobs and housing without removing those people from the country at the same time. Not only is local law enforcement not prepared for it, they shouldn't have to be....

We don't need to exchange a burden on the taxpayers that fund certain state/federal agencies for a burden on local taxpayers and local law enforcement.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
It's generally not that US workers won't do it, it's a function of they won't do it for the wages offered.

If employers can get an illegal to do the work for peanuts, they pay less on employment taxes (which increases the burden for everybody else). They don't have to pay for health insurance (which increases the costs for everybody else). They can depress wages and thus reduce the local tax revenues that schools, law enforcement, fire protection etc... rely on for funding (which increases the burden and reduces the quality of services for everybody else). The deal goes on and on. Hiring illegals is just a way to screw everybody else over for your own short term personal gain. Claiming US workers won't do the job is a smoke screen.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
It's generally not that US workers won't do it, it's a function of they won't do it for the wages offered.

If employers can get an illegal to do the work for peanuts, they pay less on employment taxes (which increases the burden for everybody else). They don't have to pay for health insurance (which increases the costs for everybody else). They can depress wages and thus reduce the local tax revenues that schools, law enforcement, fire protection etc... rely on for funding (which increases the burden and reduces the quality of services for everybody else). The deal goes on and on. Hiring illegals is just a way to screw everybody else over for your own short term personal gain. Claiming US workers won't do the job is a smoke screen.
When American workers can make more money on welfare, why would they work cheap?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
It's generally not that US workers won't do it, it's a function of they won't do it for the wages offered.

If employers can get an illegal to do the work for peanuts, they pay less on employment taxes (which increases the burden for everybody else). They don't have to pay for health insurance (which increases the costs for everybody else). They can depress wages and thus reduce the local tax revenues that schools, law enforcement, fire protection etc... rely on for funding (which increases the burden and reduces the quality of services for everybody else). The deal goes on and on. Hiring illegals is just a way to screw everybody else over for your own short term personal gain. Claiming US workers won't do the job is a smoke screen.

I'll agree that some won't do the work for the wage however, some just plain won't do the work. How many local McDonalds do you always see hiring and yet people complaining there are no jobs???
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Sandhusker said:
It's generally not that US workers won't do it, it's a function of they won't do it for the wages offered.

If employers can get an illegal to do the work for peanuts, they pay less on employment taxes (which increases the burden for everybody else). They don't have to pay for health insurance (which increases the costs for everybody else). They can depress wages and thus reduce the local tax revenues that schools, law enforcement, fire protection etc... rely on for funding (which increases the burden and reduces the quality of services for everybody else). The deal goes on and on. Hiring illegals is just a way to screw everybody else over for your own short term personal gain. Claiming US workers won't do the job is a smoke screen.
When American workers can make more money on welfare, why would they work cheap?

I hate to ruin some of your views on welfare but the system is trying much harder to make people do something for the welfare. Tanif is in fact making those that receive that benefit volunteer at least 16-20 hours a week at a local business, school, nonprofit in hopes of not only putting those that need to be in a sense to work but also to help those receiving services learn valuable job skills some as simple as just showing up day after day to work. It is also a way for those that have not been employed to gain a reference for future job applications.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Red Robin said:
Sandhusker said:
It's generally not that US workers won't do it, it's a function of they won't do it for the wages offered.

If employers can get an illegal to do the work for peanuts, they pay less on employment taxes (which increases the burden for everybody else). They don't have to pay for health insurance (which increases the costs for everybody else). They can depress wages and thus reduce the local tax revenues that schools, law enforcement, fire protection etc... rely on for funding (which increases the burden and reduces the quality of services for everybody else). The deal goes on and on. Hiring illegals is just a way to screw everybody else over for your own short term personal gain. Claiming US workers won't do the job is a smoke screen.
When American workers can make more money on welfare, why would they work cheap?

I hate to ruin some of your views on welfare but the system is trying much harder to make people do something for the welfare. Tanif is in fact making those that receive that benefit volunteer at least 16-20 hours a week at a local business, school, nonprofit in hopes of not only putting those that need to be in a sense to work but also to help those receiving services learn valuable job skills some as simple as just showing up day after day to work. It is also a way for those that have not been employed to gain a reference for future job applications.
???? So now you are saying after being retrained these people will take a pay cut to get off welfare and shovel manure or work in a packing house?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Not at all my point was the fact that some welfare programs are now making participents actually do something for the benefit. Not all welfare programs are just doleing out the benefits.
 
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